An anonymous commenter in yesterday’s post asked me how I felt about people submitting queries they did not write. This apparently is the result of a discussion in the comments section of another blog (I don’t know which one*).
This isn’t actually a purely straightforward question for me and I’ll have more on my own thoughts tomorrow, but I thought I would broaden the question a bit more:
1) How do you feel about these ghost queries?
2) What about queries that are substantially revised with the help of a critique group, i.e. queries by committee?
3) How much help is appropriate?
4) Is it a good strategy?
Looking forward to this discussion.
*UPDATE: The discussion originated at PubRants and Courtney Milan’s blog.
Dr. Dad says
Hmmm…seems a bit dishonest to me! One has to wonder how much of his work is also “by committee.”
pws says
My question is what author would TELL an agent that the query they submitted was created in such a way? I assume that if you knew a query was created by committee or not the author it might taint your opinion. But how would you know?
JM Donahue says
I saw the discussion over on PubRants about this. I think getting help with a query is fine. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes can really help point out what is working and what needs work.
Ugly Deaf Muslim Punk Gurl! says
If someone can’t even write a query on their own, then I question his/her ability as a writer.
Enough said!!!
Kat Harris says
If an author had no part in writing any of the query that’s pretty bad.
What about queries that are substantially revised with the help of a critique group, i.e. queries by committee?
I would say this is okay as long as the author of the piece being queried used the same diligence on what they’re submitting.
Sometimes a writer may need an outside party who has read the book to whittle down just how much information needs to be conveyed in a query.
I do understand how it could be deceptive, though.
Alli says
If an author has critique partners for a manuscript, I can’t see why it’s not a good idea to have someone run their eye over the query letter and give suggestions. As JM Donahue said, a fresh pair of eyes can help. Also, I think authors find it very difficult to condense a 100,000 novel into two paragraphs – to the author, every detail is there for a reason. I don’t see the harm in getting help as long as the letter isn’t entirely written by a ghost writer.
Joseph Lewis says
My lawyer writes my contracts, my accountant writes up my taxes, and my doctor writes my prescriptions, but none of this professional assistance detracts from who and what I am. I am a writer, not a salesman.
Sarah Laurenson says
So some people suck at writing queries. Is that a bad thing?
Some of my best manuscripts might be called written by committee because I’ve had several eyes reading them and helping with what works and what doesn’t. It’s just there’s more words in the manuscript than in a query. But what about with picture books? Lot less words there. Maybe even less than a query.
Writing is a process and I would hope writers are learning and improving all the time. And that includes with query letters. But what’s really important? Writing the perfect query or the best manuscript? If you only have time to do one, why not buy the services of a professional for the other? Or why not offer your services to write queries and make more money as a writer? I know people who have an absolute knack for query writing.
And yeah – why tell anyone who wrote the query?
Anonymous says
It wouldn’t bother me to hear about someone else getting an agent based on a query that they had help with or created by someone else. What really matters is the writing, and I’ve seen it said more than once by blogging agents that crummy query letters sometimes accompany very good pages.
I kind of look at it like a trailer to a movie. If you’re the moviemaker, and you want to also make the trailer to get people to take a look at your movie, then you want to do a good job. And if you can see that you’re doing a lousy job of making your trailer, you get someone to advise you or you hire someone with more talent for presenting information in that format.
I do think it’s preferable to get advice, rather than having someone else write the entirety of your query – it’s your baby, and you should be involved as much as you can – but really, I don’t care as long as it’s not some weird covered-up thing. The writing, I hear, is what it’s all about.
(4 hours of sleep and no caffeine. I blame that if this comment comes out like gobbledygook.)
RW says
I can’t understand WHY anyone would even feel it’s necessary. Isn’t a query just “here’s what my work is about; would you like to see some of it?” How hard is that to do yourself? I understand wanting to give yourself every chance to succeed, but sweating a query letter so much seems to put too much importance on that step.
AC says
I’m with Joseph (and Agent Kristen). I don’t think I personally would let someone else write my query, but if other people need that help, then ok. As long as the actual novel is purely theirs, how is a query-by-committee much different than having promotional materials written by someone else?
Roy Hayward says
Nathan,
I think my gut reaction to this would be negative. But I, myself, am guilty of this in a way. My mother has long wanted to be a published writer. And for her, I have researched and found information on queries. (That is how I found this blog BTW.) I have also written and submitted queries with her.
Now that I have become guilty of this act, I would rationalize others doing this by comparing it to any other type of help. We would not look down on someone that received a large amount of help from their writers group. So we should not look down on the same for queries.
Anyway, I would think that as an agent, you would like to receive better quality queries.
The only down side that I can think of would be to agents. If you need to pick the best to request manuscripts, that you could fear that ‘committee’ queries would not reflect the voice and quality of the author. This may be true.
I am not sure what the downside is for the writer. Submitting a better query should increase their chances for request, and therefore selection.
It comes to mind that I know an agent that has offered critiques on query letters. Didn’t I read a post here where you critiqued a few query letters? If those authors take your advice, won’t they be doing this too? And with your help!
Amber says
It was Kristen Nelson’s PubRants blog. I think the whole story is better explained over there, and there’s a link to her new client – who this discussion is all about.
I guess, when you put it in that particular way, both my MS and my query has been written by committee. I have a crit group who has looked over both and pointed out the glaring inconsistencies that I swear used to be in there 😉
It can get to be one of those – Can’t see the trees for the forest.
Aspiring Writer says
Disclosure: I have written my own queries with (ha!) mixed results.
Is getting query help any different than getting help with a resume? The professionally polished resume might get you an interview, but it can’t get you hired.
I belong to a writer’s group and people do post their queries for review. I feel completely comfortable giving general feedback on these: “Your bio is too long. You need to get your hook up top.” I never rewrite and then repost the query. It seems disrespectful, but that’s just me.
Amanda says
Writing a query is very different writing than writing a mss, and sometimes a fiction writer simply isn’t good at query writing, just like they might not be good at writing, say, poetry. I don’t think that their inability to write a good query should be held against them as a writer – it’s a different type of writing! No one says a writer has to be able to write nonfiction, short stories, novels, poetry, drama, and everything else. A writer specializes.
I see no problem with a writer getting help with their query.
Carley says
Well, I have to admit that I am flat out jealous that said author could actally get someone to write her a great query! Queries are so hard to nail, and if we’re all honest with ourselves we would love someone to look at our queries, disect them and help us put them back together. (hence the Query Shark) In my opinion, writing the book was the easy part, selling it, not so much. But, I would feel a bit dishonest if someone did it all for me, not sure if I would say no though, lol. I admire the author in question for owning up and giving credit where credit is due.
I agree that a fresh pair of eyes, or two, is a good idea. Ultimately though I’d have to write my own query, but I wouldn’t refuse any help in doing it! So where do you get a critique group?? You know, one that is not made up of your relatives! 🙂
Justus M. Bowman says
“What about queries that are substantially revised with the help of a critique group, i.e. queries by committee?”
Nathan,
To me, it depends on whether or not the author’s voice is lost.
Writing style needs to come through in the query, and that can’t happen if a committee revises every nuance for the author. Shame on said committee!
On the other hand, I applaud a committee willing to give new authors general writing/query tips.
Example!!!
Author’s Query: “That is why Shelly Moon dove into an ocean of emotion.”
Bad Committee: “Change it to, ‘Enraged by her fiance’s revelation, Shelly Moon dove headlong into an affair with the stunning Joseph Jack.'”
Good Committee: “Ya don’t begin no sentence with ‘that.’ Ain’t ya hear nothin’ Nathan done spoke?”
Gavin Nachbar says
https://pubrants.blogspot.com/2009/01/kicking-off-new-year-courtney-milans.html
That’s where Kristen talks about it…and then here’s Courtney Milan’s response to her post:
https://www.courtneymilan.com/ramblings/2008/08/15/how-not-to-sell-a-book/
Julia Weston says
1) Seems shady to me.
2) Fine; it doesn’t seem much different than having a critique group review a manuscript (which seems to be a widely-accepted practice).
3) Not sure how to quantify this. I think seeking guidance helps a writer learn, but I don’t like the idea of a writer slapping his/her name on a query letter someone else wrote. The writer learns nothing and the letter might mislead the agent/publisher.
4) See #3.
Anonymous says
I recently posted portion of my query on a website for feedback. I though a fresh pair of eyes would notice mistakes I’d missed. Not a great idea. Because no one had read the book, the story was changed as was the voice. And some of the comments didn’t even make sense. Then a fight ensued between a number of individuals. Not a pretty scene.
I don’t have a problem with others writing someone else’s query. It doesn’t mean the author isn’t a good writer. Queries aren’t easy to write. Ideally, the author should write his own letter, and have others provide suggesions and feedback. Ideally people who have read the book.
MC says
Nathan,
Isn’t it your quest with this blog (along with getting clients) to help people write better queries?
And there are blogs out there, like Query Shark, who provide this service free of charge.
Do you ever sign someone up based solely on their query letter? The letter is a rejectable possibility, but not a signable possibility.
Anonymous says
So, if another agent walks up and says, “Here’s a manuscript. It’s not right for me but I think you would like it.”
Do you say, “Have the author send me a query letter so I can judge his writing.” Or do you say, “Thanks, I don’t need no stinking query letter.”
If the query letter reflects the book who cares who wrote the letter.
Kathleen Peacock says
I fully support doing research, having a second pair of eyes, and taking advice but I can’t imagine not writing my own query.
It’s the first impression an agent will have of me (unless I obsessively comment on their blog). It’s not something I would feel comfortable having someone else write.
Now you may use the argument that people enlist writing services for cover letters and resumes but I think the crucial difference is that those people aren’t necessarily positioning themselves as writers.
I also wonder if it would possibly reflect on someone ability to help promote the book through interviews, conferences.
Courtney Milan says
Hello, followers of Nathan Bransford! I am the author who had someone else write her query letter. *waves*
I do want to say that the structure of the query letter was written by Sherry Thomas, but I revised and revised it until it was representative of my voice, and not Sherry’s; and the version Sherry wrote for me she specifically did not polish, for that reason.
Authors don’t write back cover copy for their books. They don’t make covers for their books, either. That’s because authors are really good at writing books, but there’s no guarantee that they can do any of the other things. There is probably some correlation between writing a really bad query letter and writing a really bad book, but it is not a perfect correlation.
The query that I sent was (a) in my voice and (b) about my plot.
I am really, really bad at writing query letters. In the months when I was revising and polishing my manuscript, I also worked on a query letter, and in those months, I didn’t get a single draft of a query letter that I thought was good enough–and I tried and tried and tried. But I thought my pages were actually pretty good.
At the time, I was working 12-14 hours a day, six days a week, in my day job, and writing until 2 AM, and then getting up at 6 AM to go back to work and do it all over again.
I wasn’t going to let a little obstacle like working 80 hours a week stop me, and I sure wasn’t going to let the fact that I couldn’t write a query letter stop me, either. I knew I had something special, and I was too excited about it myself to really write a query letter that captured the important points.
Anonymous says
Ugly Deaf Muslim Punk Girl —
You said: “…If someone can’t even write a query on their own, then I question his/her ability as a writer…”
I used to think this too, but the person on Pub Rants got a six figure book deal — so who knows?
For entertainment go to Query Shark blogspot (ala agent Janet Reid) to see just how hard it is to write a query.
Karen Cantwell says
The purpose of the query is to attract the attention of the agent to your work. We all know how hard that is. If an author can get help from others in writing a succint and catchy query that is true to the body of work being presented, I think that is fine.
Vieva says
I think what matters is whether the voice is changed or not.
If it still reads like the actual writer, it’s not a bad thing. Gods know I’ve run my stuff past other people. And it’s made a difference, too.
And when a novel is accepted, the novel itself is tweaked by the publisher and possibly the agent as well. So why NOT get help for the query letter?
But write your own. If you can’t write the darn thing at least enough to get help with it later, that’s just sad. Possibly not a problem – but sad. (unless someone wants to write mine? please? I’ll give you a biscuit!)
Kristan says
I’m not sure I understand the problem… I think most authors get help with their work — beta readers, writing groups, etc. — so what’s wrong with help on a query letter?
(Being written by someone else altogether is a little more clear-cut in terms, I would think. Just like submitting a manuscript written by someone else would be.)
Actually, I have a question of my own, Nathan. I was thinking about this as I brushed my teeth this morning. (Yes, my brain IS always this interesting. :P)
Junot Diaz’s collection Drown was great, and I presume he sold it via an agent with the idea that he’d do a novel next. Well, it took him 12 years to get that novel done. Even though it won a Pulitzer, isn’t that a reeeeally long time for an agent to wait? If you’re the agent in that situation, what’s going through your mind? Do you dump him? Pressure him? Wait for his genius?
I guess the whole situation intrigues and confounds me. I don’t actually know, maybe his agent did drop him and he found another one…
Just curious, thanks!
Robert A Meacham says
I would rather learn from my failings than succeed from another’s success. I believe in injecting my personal take from what works.
Nathan Bransford says
anon@9:23-
If someone I trust refers a manuscript to me I ask them to have the author get in touch with me with a query. I’ll automatically request the manuscript, but I at least want to know what it’s about.
Margaret Yang says
But Nathan, aren’t we kind of ignoring the elephant in the room?
After the agent takes on the manuscript, he writes HIS OWN query letter to the editors! Does the agent take the writer’s query word-for-word? Of course not. So at the end of the food chain, the editor is seeing a query letter not written by the writer.
How do people feel about that?
PurpleClover says
Wow, definitely struck a nerve here.
To play devil’s advocate:
No matter what, the query is subjective and if someone has better words to describe the MS then so be it. If the agent is actually reading the manuscript, they should be able to make a decision based on the first few pages. The query itself is just to give the agent a preview…who cares who it comes from?
IMO a decision based on a query is like a judge making a decision just based on how “guilty” they think the defendant looks or talks…not actually looking at the evidence.
But to throw a wrench in, I personally would not feel comfortable letting someone else write my query. Editing? Yes. Writing? No.
Oh you thought this was going to be rational? hehe.
Scott says
I think a query should be written by the person querying. That’s not to say that I didn’t have some people read the query and give me a ‘thumbs up/down’. Does that count as a critique group??
Crimogenic says
Nice topic.
I agree with those commenters, who think that most queries are reworked based on committee input: beta readers, critique groups, other writers, family and friends, etc. I don’t know if getting someone to write my query completely and just submitting that version is the right answer. But as Courtney Milan said, she got the basic gist of what the query should be from someone and rewrote it in her own voice, so that’s a bit different.
Also I wonder if in some cases it isn’t the query that’s the problem, but rather, the author is submitting to the wrong agents.
Whirlochre says
I have no problem with the idea of beta readers helping out with novels, synopses and queries, but ultimately, the words should spring from the writer. Anything else is elaborate data entry.
Professor Tarr says
I have come to the conclusion that I really suck at queries. And maybe that is okay. But in a market that is tres competitive, sales and marketing are key – and if I want my books in the hands of the most people – and I do – I believe that I have to get better at that aspect.
If I don’t get better, I’d welcome a ghost query that put my work – repeat MY work – in front of an agent. But it would be a sad disappointment if the work by committee or hire or whatever was not representative of my work. I put my query up on my little professortarr.blogspot just to see if I could get past that hump and see where I might err. Maybe I’m way out of line. I’ve lost all objectivity.
It may simply be that I have written a great book that no wants to read, and hence is not publishable. That is entirely possible. Or it might just be that I suck at queries or novel writing or both. Entirely possible.
In a way, it’s all the same to me because tomorrow I know I will still be writing.
Jess says
I think that Kristin herself says it best (I think in today’s follow-up post): The writing stands on its own. The query is just to entice the agent. If the writing isn’t as stellar as the query, it doesn’t matter how good the query was. It happens all the time. Some people write great queries (or have help) and don’t put the same polish on the books themselves, which is a shame, but there are probably an equal number of great books with poor queries introducing them.
At worst, you’re wasting everyone’s time, including your own. At best, you’re getting the help you need to get the thing into the right hands. I like the forest for the trees metaphor and also that fresh eyes can’t hurt.
Remember, you as the author know everything the query doesn’t say, so your mind can fill in the gaps. Having others read the query and give feedback can help you spot incoherence or inconsistencies you wouldn’t notice because you have all the information.
L.C. Gant says
Great question!
I agree with Aspiring Writer’s comment that writing a query is similar to creating a resume. For those writers who DO have others write their query letters entirely and take credit for it (clearly not what Courtney did), I think it only backfires, especially when the query writing style doesn’t match that of the MS.
I like Justus M. Bowman’s example of the “good” vs. “bad” committee (very funny!). General help is fine, but if you lose the writer’s voice, it’s gone too far.
P.S. Thanks to Courtney Milan for joining in on the discussion! Best of luck with your novel.
Scott says
I think agents already factor in a certain amount of leeway when considering a query, don’t they, Nathan? If so, I don’t understand why someone wouldn’t want to grab the chance to represent themselves and their work. It’s not only a tool to sell your style, it’s a tool to critique your own work: if you can’t nail the essence of what you’re writing, you might have bigger problems than query feary.
Sure, have someone give you feedback which will help you get better, but as someone who takes pride in my writing, I want that shot at selling it. It’s kind of like wanting the ball with three seconds left and the game on the line. Not wanting to represent yourself in such an important way would worry me if I were an agent. It might suggest a degree of laziness and perhaps a lack of respect for what I do. It might say something about confidence, as well. Could writer’s block be far behind?
But, as has been covered here already, how would they know if you didn’t say?
R. Daley says
If it works, sure. I’m results-oriented. As long as it doesn’t cover up a lack of talent that will be exposed in the requested manuscript. Then you just wasted the agent’s time.
Speaking from an unpublished point of view, I think soliciting and using feedback in query content is akin to having the publisher help with jacket copy. The art of abbreviation and the instinct to know, out of 80,000+ words, which to leave in and which to leave out is different than the composition of the completed novel. While many writers may excel at both, I’m sure there are plenty of great novelists who struggle with the short “teaser” version requisite in a query.
Deborah says
Who doesn’t get help with their query letter? Whether it’s several other pairs of eyes, a beta who reworks it, someone who takes your own “pitch” and makes a query out of it, or whether you collaborate with someone, it’s the most common form of query around. The people who expressed “shock horror” at the thought that the writer would use a query that wasn’t 100% their words, clearly hadn’t sent query letters, or perhaps hadn’t been on any websites to understand this is the norm. There is no big deal to this. Published or agented authors publicly thank the people who helped them with their queries on their blogs, that’s how common and accepted it is. The 70k, 80k, 100k word ms is where the author’s voice is important, not the 150 word query.
akisdad says
So many posts I can’t read and process them all, but the question and discussion are interesting. I can see the point of getting someone else’s ideas on what you write, but at the of the process, aren’t you the writer? It might be honest to admit that your query was helped by friends (and that you stole the idea for the communicator built into the brain from Iain Banks, the camoflage suits from Philip K Dick and the joke about the weapons from Terry Pratchett), but then you might as well credit the teacher who got the A, B, C’s firmly established in your head and so allowed you to compose English.
ryan field says
I commented yesterday on Pub Rants that I didn’t see anything wrong with getting help writing a query. It sounds like it should be a simple, black and white issue. But it’s not.
Elissa M says
I’m siding with the folks who think help with the query is no big deal. In fact, I think feedback is essential, whether it’s on the query or the manuscript itself (hence my membership in OWW). The thing is, you’re not asking an agent to represent your query. If your manuscript sucks, it doesn’t matter how brilliant your query is.
Of course, a writer must, as Courtney Milan did, make sure the query is true to the novel and the author’s voice no matter who wrote it. If you manuscript is nothing like the query, you’re wasting everybody’s time.
clindsay says
I have seen many great query letters with really crappy pages.
But I have never once seen really good pages accompanied by a crappy query letter.
Anonymous says
Literary agents sell writers’ works to publishers.
Queries sell writers’ works to agents.
Is it bad that writers must rely on the skills of agents to get their works published?
Is it bad that writers rely on someone else’s skills to get their works published?
Query writing is sales/marketing (and a bit overrated aspect of it by now, imo.)
Novel writing is art. (Or it used to be that. Nowadays it seems to blur into copywriting. But I digress.)
Do you design and code the word processor that you write your novel with? No. You rely on the skills of IT professionals. Do you wish to spend your days perfecting your art of querying, or would you rather work more on your novel writing skills – and on your novel?
I wonder when someone’s going to start a Query Writing Agency or publish a collection of quality, ‘blank’ queries.
“We read your manuscripts and query agents for you! Just send us a query: buy a free template from us now!”
😉
(anonymous)
Lady Glamis says
I personally feel that the writer’s voice should be in a query. I know publishing is a business like any other, but I would think that an agent would like to get a feel for the author from a query that was written by the writer.
I think help is fine, though. I certainly ask for help when querying. But I try to keep my voice in there!
Elyssa Papa says
After I write my query, I always send it to my CPs and then to a query critique group to get feedback. If a line doesn’t make sense, I switch it up, and my CPs will suggest things to make my query stronger.
One agent I queried in June wrote me an e-mail about my first chapter I posted on my website and told me what she felt needed to be less of. This past summer, I bid on a query critique by an author and won it. The author received my query and critiqued it, and her comments made my query so much better. We all want that feedback from someone in the business. After all, we all want that awesome query critique from Nathan. *g* I know, as an aspiring writer, that I value the feedback/critique of an author, an agent, or an editor because they know a lot more than I do.
At the end of the day, the query I sent out is mine. If an agent request pages, then it’s on my writing alone that gets judged. I also know Courtney Milan, and I know she worked her butt off on this manuscript and getting the query exactly right. Like we all do when we want to get an agent and become published. If you can have help on your query so you can get through one obstacle, then so be it. It’s going to be your writing at the end of the day that nabs you an agent or not.
Cam says
I don’t know about “ghost queries” or hiring someone to write a query BUT – much in the same way that I would plan to have my MS critiqued by a group of other professional writers – I would also do the same with my query. Research before writing the query, draft the query, revise and clean it up, then send to one of my critique groups for comments. Outside opinions from trusted sources are always valuable, even if you decide not to implement the advice.
Ulysses says
There is adanger in having a query that is not solely the work of the correstponding book’s author. The style and voice of the query may be substantially different than the style and voice of the book. That would make it quite difficult for an agent or editor to judge those two very important qualities on the basis of the query alone.
However, outside of those considerations, I don’t think it matters who writes the query. It’s supposed to give the reader the gist of the story, making it sound exciting and interesting enough to merit a request for a partial.
As for workshopping a query, I don’t see it as any different than workshopping a book. The workshop is supposed to help the writer make his pitch sharper, clearer and more effective. How is that a bad thing?