By: Rick Daley
Rick’s blogs:
The Public Query Slushpile
My Daley Rant
Writing a novel is a lonely task. Sure, our characters keep us company, but after numerous readings and revisions they transform into red-headed step-children and we want them to leave us alone. That’s when it’s time to ship them off to boarding school, where they are subject to the critiques of our friends and family. Not all of them graduate.
As writers, we yearn for feedback. Aside from the chosen few who produce flawless prose on the first draft (and can’t ever fathom why the query for their masterpiece was rejected by those ungrateful agents), we understand that hearing the honest opinions of readers is crucial to perfecting our work. However, opening our souls to criticism can be daunting…
Giving a Critique
I recommend the sandwich approach, where you start with a positive point, give an honest opinion of what doesn’t work for you (may be multiple points), and then end with another positive point or words of encouragement. I’ve found that the sandwich approach helps put recipients at ease (especially if they are hungry). It makes people more receptive to constructive criticism and keeps them from getting overly defensive. If you are taking the time to provide the feedback, you should want the person to actually do something with it.
Be careful if you re-write something as an example, especially in a query critique. A short clause or sentence is one thing, but if you start re-writing paragraphs you are providing more than advice – you are providing voice.
What Not to Do When Giving a Critique
– Don’t be overly apologetic or you will undermine your own opinions.
– Don’t hunt for things just because you feel you have to suggest something. Sometimes the work we review is really good. However…
– Don’t limit your feedback to praise just because you are afraid to hurt someone’s feelings. Paula Abdul has cornered that market.
– Don’t be a ruthless jerk. Simon Cowell has cornered that market.
Receiving a Critique
Rule # 1: Don’t pout if you hear something negative. Remember that you asked for the feedback in the first place.
Rule # 2: Wait until all the feedback is in before you seriously contemplate your changes.
Rule # 3: Seriously contemplate your changes. Take time. Work through it. You never microwave a roast. Slow cooking always turns out better. (NOTE: what’s with all the food references?)
Rule # 4: Look for common threads in the feedback and start there. The advice of the many outweighs the advice of the few.
Rule # 5: Re-write. If someone provides a re-write as an example, don’t just copy it. Try to understand why they suggested those changes. Otherwise you may dilute your own voice and you miss the opportunity to learn something.
Rule # 6: Ask for clarification if you don’t understand something. (NOTE: Please remember that this is in regard to critiques, not form rejections. Agents are not critique partners. No matter how much we want them to be.)
Rule # 7: Thank the people who took the time to offer their feedback, and pay it forward by offering a critique to someone else.
Bane lol…blurb…"A soul turner, I couldn't put it down"
The Bibble.
Bible, part 2: The sequel. After the apocolypse.
Bible: The Director's Cut.
(Includes all the cut scenes that were considered too controversial and racy to include in the original.)
Wait. Nathan's out of town. I wonder if those are tricky waters we are treading in….
The Director's Cut – LOL — when the cat's away, the mice get to play 😉
Mira, I had the same thought. I cringed when I hit "publish" not wanting to offend anyone.
What's that Nathan? Professionalism? Right, got it.
BOA – sequel to the Bible is an awesome idea! You could call it Beyond the Bible: Afterlife. Or if you REALLY want to stoke some fires, you could call it Bible 2: Evolution!
Neil – 🙂 — we're all going to Hell… good thing a jackal-headed psychopomp's got my back.
Rick,
As one who has participated in your blog, I find your blog here spot on. Thanks for a great article.
Well, I think we should be careful. I know that is bizarre for me to say, of all people, since I've been so outrageous here.
But since (I think) I also have the dubious honor of having Nathan delete more of my posts than any other person on his blog – well, let's just say maybe I learned the hard way. 🙂
It's fun to play, but, you know, this is a professional blog.
That said, I have no idea if he'd have a problem with these posts. I think they're funny. But it's good to be careful.
Btw, Rick D. I got three personal e-mails all raving about your post.
That's very cool, and I thought you should know that. However, I did sort of have a request for the people e-mailing me. You know, if you're going to send me e-mails raving about something, well it could be me.
I'm just saying.
Neil: "I don't really get why you'd want to do a sequel to a book that wasn't yours (certainly not as your first book)"
Ink was right on the *&^%ing money. The best comparison I can make is to a musician whose first hit is a cover song.
Mira,
No ice cream, no raves.
Rick,
I'm always right on the #^@&ing money, or so my mother says. Although without the #^@&ing.
All the guest posts have been damn good this week. Concise and informative. Oftentimes hilarious.
I was unaware Simon had douchebaggery on lockdown. I guess I'll back off my writer buddies.
I'm beginning to believe my entires will never get picked. Mostly because they're not informative and have no point to speak of. But ah, so is life.
Grats to all the winners this week!
Funny, I thought they already published a sequel to the Bible. If I recall correctly, it was called "The New Testament" or something like that.
A prequel to the Bible would be interesting, though.
Now if you will entertain the notion of a trilogy, read this to find out what happens next:
https://mydaleyrant.blogspot.com/2009/06/earths-end-post-1.html
Great post, Rick! Thanks for mentioning the sandwich approach, very important but often forgotten. I think another important guideline for feedback (and this may have already been mentioned in previous comments) is that it should *always* point the receiver towards specific action. Never say something like "your writing is hard to read" – instead say: "you should use more paragraphs" or "use shorter sentences". Otherwise your feedback isn't feedback, it's nothing more than a vent.
No, Rick, the sequel to the Bible is called "The Book of Mormon."
P.S.: Some people claim it is authorized, others disagree vehemently. The author(s) of the original work have not weighed in on the matter so legal is uncertain how to proceed.
I had a really good joke to go here, but… maybe not.
You're taking over the web Rick! Great post. Its good to be reminded that we can improve on the way we offer critiques. If only the ABNA reviewer who shredded my first chapter was reading this…he's obviously never heard of the sandwich approach!
Ink – uh oh. I think I'm in trouble. I went to the store to get you some ice cream, so you'd rave about me. When the employees saw me coming, they raced to the door and threw themselves in front of it, yelling, "There's no more ice cream. For the love of god, stop buying ice cream from us."
Um.
How do you feel about frozen yogurt?
Nice post Rick.
As someone who often has a hard time citing specific problems, or offering suggestions, I also appreciated what RW mentioned in a previous comment: “You may tend to clam up when something about the essay doesn't feel right because you feel like you have to diagnose the problem exactly and offer specific strategies to fix it, and you may not know how to do that. So you get shy and say nothing, and that's not helpful. So, your job is just to flag anything that makes you as a reader pause. ‘I was confused here. I didn't understand this. I had to read this twice.’"
There’s a lot of helpful advice here!
Excellent post, Rick! I've always loved your Sandwich approach. I've used it a lot since you talked about it in a comment awhile ago.
I like the pouting advice best. I pout a lot when I get critiques. It's bad. I'll mope around the house for days until somebody slaps me upside the head and tells me to get over it already. I'm getting better!
As I've had a critique from you in the past, Rick, (Qery Slush Pile) I know how good you are at the critting game. I appreciate those tips because no matter how much I try to be helpful and tactful, I suspect I'm not. Got kicked off a critting group once because of complaints. *g*
I love getting criticism on my work. The worse the better! I'm not precious about my work, and I'm glad when I get it back with thousands of marks on it and pages of notes, as I just did with my WIP. I'm talking about 10 pages of notes! The critiquer (who also happens to be my sister) ripped the thing to shreds, and I read it all with a big smile on my face, because I knew it was going to make the book that much better. Criticism is awesome!
prequel could be:
Just Before …In the Beginning
That was an interesting concept; the bit in the middle concerned me but the final full-stop was well-formed.
Is this the kind of thing you meant?
Useful, informative and timely – three stars … with no wish necessary. Go Rick!
Rick,
This is very timely for me.
I am about to ask my "focus group” to read my novel.
I have been mentally preparing myself, and this posting is going to be very helpful.
I appreciate all that you do to encourage your fellow writers – like me.
Thank you.
The "Sandwich Approach" has always helped me. I've used it and had it used on my stuff.
Very good advice.
Great post.
One thing that I have found really helps a writer take my comments well is to say things like "I didn't understand this." instead of "This is confusing." A writer can't argue over whether I understood something or not, but they can argue over whether a sentence is confusing or not. *smile*
Yes Laurel, I have sometimes mentioned things that bugged me nobody else noted in a critique workshop. Sometimes other reviewers (critters, as Bane called them) comment on it afterward, a sort of “now that you mention it” response. And sometimes, others rave about how much they liked the section or scene I didn’t. It doesn’t mean the odd critter was wrong, or the others right in their opinions. (Yes I know, that right/wrong is awkward but I’m having a word analogy crisis here.)
I’m not embarrassed to voice an unpopular opinion. The members of writer’s group I attend seem to all be focused in YA and Chic Lit, and I don’t always “get” those genre. So, I see things differently a lot of times. I also realize I bring some of my own “writer preference” to the table. As Rick says, though, I’ve learned a lot about my own writing in getting and receiving critiques. I don’t always agree with the feedback, but I certainly take it under consideration and weigh it in the constructive nature it is intended.
That said, Vacuum Queen, the reason I don’t always make suggested changes, though I’ve asked for the feedback, is due mostly to Ricks rule # 3 and # 5. I seriously consider if the suggested changes will work not only in the scene being reviewed, but also in the voice and plot of the entire novel. Maybe it’s not that specific scene that needs changed, but something later or earlier in the novel that relates. Or, maybe the bit that didn’t work for the reader was left on purpose as a red-herring; something to niggle the reader and keep it in mind for a twisted finish.
And when I’m offering feedback, I always remember this: just because you ask someone their opinion doesn’t mean you have to accept it. How often in life do we solicit advice we ignore? Why should it be different in regards to the pet project we’ve poured our heart and soul into?
This was an awesome subject matter Rick. Thanks for putting so much effort into this, and the Slushpile blog.
…………dhole
This is very helpful. I've just received feedback from beta readers but have yet to provide any of my own comments to others. So all of this advice is useful to me right now.
Thanks for guest-blogging!
Great post!
Am I the only one who refers to this comment technique as a "s*** sandwich"?
gah. "critique technique."
Excellent post.
Great post!
I like the sandwich idea — many writers — most? — are very sensitive when it comes to their babies. If the crit starts with something negative, it's possible for the writer to lose their ability to hear everything that follows, good or bad.I think I'll start following this advice.
"You're taking over the web Rick!"
Al Gore will be so upset.
Donna made a great point here:
"I don’t always agree with the feedback, but I certainly take it under consideration and weigh it in the constructive nature it is intended."
Other Lisa:
Depending on the quality of the work being critiqued, that expression may be reserved by the critter 😉
Thanks everyone for your feedback, I'm glad my post resonated so well.
And another thanks to Nathan for selecting mine from the deluge of submissions. Knowing the crowd here, it really is an honor because I know the competition is very strong!
A friend sent me a link to your blog, and this was great! All that was missing was advice on how to find these mythical readers who will actually give honest feedback. Whenever I show my writings to anyone, really, and ask for a critique, I always get the same response "It's great! Wouldn't change a thing!" Either I'm better than I think, or I live in a bubble filled with Paula Abduls. Suggestions?
xzonia,
Look up local writer's groups, or find them online. The best place to start would probably be big writer forums like Forward Motion for Writers or Absolute Write. They have avenues for connecting with other writers and groups, and they also have places for you to share your work and ask for critiques from other members (as well as many other writerly things). They both have large memberships and host writers of many sorts.
Best of luck,
Bryan
Regarding the Salinger sequel, many great books have had sequels written by other authors (though not usually during the author's lifetime). Jane Eyre had that dreadful Wide Sargasso Sea sequel, and Gone with the Wind had the terrible Scarlett sequel – both were written years after the original authors had died. And the Bible has had many sequels. My favorite? The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. 😉
Thanks Bryan! I've joined local writers groups in the past, both the face-to-face kind and online only types (without ever getting useful feedback). I'll look for the ones you recommended. I appreciate your specificity! Thanks!!
No problemo.
Mira,
Thanks for the feedback, but don't applaud. Send ice cream. No frozen yogurt, either. I like Ben & Jerry's Chubby Hubby. It's da bomb.
In regard to singing the phone book, it worked for these guys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHJqtgo8RA
Now I'm going to send you a personal email praising the three people who sent you personal emails praising me.
Hi, Mira.
Has Ink finished the catapult yet? Will it work for northern Michigan? 'Cause I could go for some Cherry Garcia right about now(you know, since you'll already be picking up some B&J for Rick). Can't hurt to ask, right?
Hungrily yours,
Laura the Michigander
Laura,
I'm having a crank problem. If you drove down to Detroit, though, I might be able to heave some across the river.
Oh, man, is my mind warped. When I read that you were having a "crank" problem, Ink, I was thinking about something else entirely. I thought, "What's he talking about, Willis? I don't want no crank, just the ice cream, man. Just the ice cream."
Where is my head today?!
I hope the catapult reaches Michigan, because if it doesn't I'm out of luck here in Ohio.
BTW…I also took crank the wrong way. Now that sounds bad, let me rephrase that. I also misinterpreted his reference to crank. That's better.
WORD VERIFICATION: backsag. A problem affecting the cranking device in a catapult that prevents it from reaching the peak velocity needed to heave frozen dairy goods beyond the Mississippi.
Teehee. Even my kitty thought that was hilarious (if only she'd stop biting me in her excitement). Thanks, Ink and Rick, for making my day, as always!
Now, why hasn't Mira weighed in on the whole crank vs. dairy debate? Wherever could she be? Harassing folks in the frozen food aisle?
I thought ice cream was crank?
Hey, Rick, wasn't this meant to be a "Dagwood"?
Notes worthy to digest, but one more nugget of advice you didn't offer–two, actually–those who're on the rant of overly sensitive to a well-constructed critique; and those receiving said critique let the feedback marinate a while. Best bench time: 24 hours. This way, after the ego's been hit and the high tide of emo's out the way, you can come back to the notes with an uninvolved eye and see things in a more objective fashion.
That aside, great notes, Rick, thank you. I'll take my "Crit Dagwood" on seedless rye, please, loaded, with onions, black olives, and ranch dressing.
~Missye
I totally agree, Missye. Best to let the feedback sit for a while, before trying to absorb it and possibly incorporate it within one's story.
But I would venture another suggestion re: time. In my limited experience with beta-reading, I find it best to wait a bit longer than 24 hours… more like a week or so (if not longer). Not just for the sake of the ego – but also to have an improved chance of approaching the feedback, manuscript, and possible revision with relatively fresh eyes.
And regarding sandwiches… my hubby made an awesome one today: grilled garlic chicken on sprouted wheat with tomato cream cheese, cheddar, tomato, and ranch dressing. Oh my, that was delish! And, darn it all, now I'm hungry again.
Mira, Ink, somebody, where's my bleepin' ice cream already?!