By: Rick Daley
Rick’s blogs:
The Public Query Slushpile
My Daley Rant
Writing a novel is a lonely task. Sure, our characters keep us company, but after numerous readings and revisions they transform into red-headed step-children and we want them to leave us alone. That’s when it’s time to ship them off to boarding school, where they are subject to the critiques of our friends and family. Not all of them graduate.
As writers, we yearn for feedback. Aside from the chosen few who produce flawless prose on the first draft (and can’t ever fathom why the query for their masterpiece was rejected by those ungrateful agents), we understand that hearing the honest opinions of readers is crucial to perfecting our work. However, opening our souls to criticism can be daunting…
Giving a Critique
I recommend the sandwich approach, where you start with a positive point, give an honest opinion of what doesn’t work for you (may be multiple points), and then end with another positive point or words of encouragement. I’ve found that the sandwich approach helps put recipients at ease (especially if they are hungry). It makes people more receptive to constructive criticism and keeps them from getting overly defensive. If you are taking the time to provide the feedback, you should want the person to actually do something with it.
Be careful if you re-write something as an example, especially in a query critique. A short clause or sentence is one thing, but if you start re-writing paragraphs you are providing more than advice – you are providing voice.
What Not to Do When Giving a Critique
– Don’t be overly apologetic or you will undermine your own opinions.
– Don’t hunt for things just because you feel you have to suggest something. Sometimes the work we review is really good. However…
– Don’t limit your feedback to praise just because you are afraid to hurt someone’s feelings. Paula Abdul has cornered that market.
– Don’t be a ruthless jerk. Simon Cowell has cornered that market.
Receiving a Critique
Rule # 1: Don’t pout if you hear something negative. Remember that you asked for the feedback in the first place.
Rule # 2: Wait until all the feedback is in before you seriously contemplate your changes.
Rule # 3: Seriously contemplate your changes. Take time. Work through it. You never microwave a roast. Slow cooking always turns out better. (NOTE: what’s with all the food references?)
Rule # 4: Look for common threads in the feedback and start there. The advice of the many outweighs the advice of the few.
Rule # 5: Re-write. If someone provides a re-write as an example, don’t just copy it. Try to understand why they suggested those changes. Otherwise you may dilute your own voice and you miss the opportunity to learn something.
Rule # 6: Ask for clarification if you don’t understand something. (NOTE: Please remember that this is in regard to critiques, not form rejections. Agents are not critique partners. No matter how much we want them to be.)
Rule # 7: Thank the people who took the time to offer their feedback, and pay it forward by offering a critique to someone else.
ryan field says
Great post, Rick. I especially liked the "Sandwich Approach." This is why I love your blog so much. (And I'm not the Paul Abdul type, trust me 🙂
Ink says
I'm afraid you'll have to edit, Rick. I didn't see profanity laced tirade anywhere in that list. Very disappointing.
RW says
All great advice. Another tip I give to my freshman comp students when they are workshopping each other's essays . . . You may tend to clam up when something about the essay doesn't feel right because you feel like you have to diagnose the problem exactly and offer specific strategies to fix it, and you may not know how to do that. So you get shy and say nothing, and that's not helpful. So, your job is just to flag anything that makes you as a reader pause. "I was confused here. I didn't understand this. I had to read this twice." In other words, let me be the teacher. Let the author be responsible for fixing their own work. You just respond as a reader.
I tell something similar to people reading my work who may not feel like expert commentators. Just put a check mark next to anything that doesn't feel right. If I know it's a problem for readers, I can be responsible for figuring out what the problem is and how to fix it.
Vipul says
Excellent post, Rick. Giving and receiving criticism is always difficult on either side, but crucial to the process. We all hope to be discovered as geniuses by talent alone, but there's really no such thing. Thanks for all the work with Public Query Slushpile. Now I'm off to get a roast beef sandwich…
Dearth of Reason says
Rick, that's a fine nugget. Thanks for coming up with it. As you suggest, the usefulness I enjoyed from critiques improved dramatically when I dropped the broadsword and learned to listen, just as you describe. Their quality is in direct correlation to one's openness to hear criticism.
Thanks, Rick.
Michelle says
Great advice! I like what you said about not rewriting when giving a critique. I may suggest a few stronger words from time to time, but let the author choose which word suits best. Or I might simply say, "awkward wording." I want to offer my opinion, not ghost write the piece!
I also like the common threads bit. It's easy to ignore one opinion you disagree with. It's much harder to ignore the same advice if you hear it four times.
Alan Orloff says
Delicious post, Rick.
I like the sandwich approach. Make it a double-decker, if you need to, by "spacing" the more critical comments with another slice of praise.
Chuck H. says
For some reason I was expecting LOTR references. Oh well. Excellent post, good advice.
Word Ver: reholys Rehabed saints?
Laurel says
Go, Rick!
The common threads approach is really useful to me…if something bothers most of your beta readers and it's the same something then it's a good bet it needs work.
Have you (meaning anyone reading, not just Rick) had something bother you that no one else disliked? Would you recommend pointing it out and asking specifically about it? It's hard to tell when you are too close…
N. Gemini Sasson says
This is a very helpful post and I must say I wish I'd sought critiques on my work years ago. Giving critiques has taught me to think harder about what does or doesn't work in writing (at least for me). Getting them regularly and in volume has taught me to be more objective about feedback. Both have helped my improve my work and ultimately, I hope, that of others, as well. Thanks for sharing!
Regina Milton says
Great post! I will now use said advice to critique said advice:
– very informative post, funny as well
– could have used more food references Rick, definite lack of food refs
– awesome rules that we should all refer to
Dara says
I am printing this off for my critique group 🙂 They're pretty good but I know a few who may want to follow rules 2 and 3 in the receiving section (myself included!)
Amanda J. says
Great post. Thanks, Rick! 🙂
M. Dunham says
Wonderful post. I belong to a critique group and we follow all of those guidelines ourselves. The number of people who don't know how to remain professional in a critique surprises me, but then again, it's a learned tool that you have to understand how to use.
bethanyintexas says
Good post! Thanks for the advice. By the way, roasts are yummy. Like the food references. But you forgot to quote Julia Child. Good points and I do like the sandwich approach, too.
Bane of Anubis says
Ricky D — nice points and more props for your efforts over at
TPQSP…
I think, at some point, it's also important to know thyself… this could help you choose your critters whose strengths might be your weaknesses and help you corroborate problem areas that you, the writer, believe exist within the story (or realize that you don't suck as bad as you thought you did in that problem area)…
For example, I'm not particularly good at writing extended descriptions (though, based on some previous discussions, I'd guess someone like Bryan might be), so if he critted a piece of mine and came to some description I'd labored over for hours (where most of y'all might have taken minutes) and didn't have any issues with it, I'd get a wee boost of confidence in that lesser ability; yet, were he to rip it apart, I'd probably take it in better stride b/c I know it's one of my weaknesses.
Rick Daley says
I am writing this comment while I eat my sandwich for lunch (there's your additional food reference Regina 😉
Trading LOTR references for American Idol references is not a fair trade. Gollum.
It seems the market for limiting your feedback to praise just because you are afraid to hurt someone's feelings is open again, as Paula Abdul is not coming back to American Idol. But remember: there can be only one.
Ink: I can't &^$%ing believe I forgot that. What total &*^*&%$.
I've learned a lot about my own writing by giving critiques. If you critique someone else's work and then go to critique your own, it helps change your perspective from that of the creator to that of the critic. That can be a very difficult task.
And in case you are wondering, yes, the advice of the many / advice of the few was inspired by Star Trek II: the Wrath of Kahn.
Neil says
Great post, Rick (and good blogs, too – how'd I miss those? Hmmm…)
Anyway, to help fill in part of the void that I know is left in all of us due to lack of a "this week in publishing" post, have a gander at this: media defend salinger "sequel"
I'd love to know what side y'all are coming down on with this debate… Personally I think the book should be published in the US and people should make up their own minds, as they have been doing elsewhere in the world. I also think now is the time for Salinger to unleash one of the massive stack of new works on us that he's supposedly been keeping under his bed!
Laura Martone says
Oh, Rick, this is a terrific post! I'm so happy that you wrote something so helpful – with a spark of your comic genius, too! (Although I share Chuck's dismay about the dearth of LOTR references… though food IS a Hobbit's favorite thing!)
It's funny – when Nathan announced this second guest-blogging contest, this was the exact topic that I was considering for a possible entry (as I'm knee-deep in the beta-reading phase of my novel), but I'm so glad that you did it in instead. As creator of the wonderful Public Query Slushpile, you have a distinct, firsthand perspective about critiquing others' work and being critiqued in return. And much of this advice I've already applied to my own process, but I still have a lot to learn!
Thank you for all that you do for us work-in-progress novelists. I really do appreciate it… and I urge anyone who hasn't yet gone to the PQS to do so… now!
–Laura
P.S. Thanks, Nathan, for picking this post – it's such helpful advice for someone in the thick of the beta-reading phase!
Maryann Miller says
Excellent points, Rick. Thanks so much for posting this.
To answer Laurel's question, I have had something bother me in someone's story that didn't bother anyone else. I still spoke up and left it to the author to decide whether to ignore my comment or act on it.
Kristan says
I think this should be printed and distributed in every writing class and writing group… Thank you!
Thermocline says
Sometimes I find it hard to know what to do with the kind of outlying comments you mentioned. Staying focused on the advice of the many was a great way to put your suggestion.
T. Anne says
Rick, A valuable post. LOL about Simon cornering the market! And quite frankly I'm shocked about that whole pouting thing. I thought that was par for course and I was getting so good at it.
Kristi says
This is great – as a relatively new writer (well, fiction anyway), I have learned by far the most about writing from my critique group. I think the "goodness of fit" is important with this just as with the agent/author relationship. I'm a very direct person and wanted a group that gave me honest, tough feedback – no Paula Abdul comments. The nice thing is that when they do praise you, you know you've earned it. If you have a Simon or Paula group, I would suggest politely excusing yourself and find a better fit. Thanks and Happy Friday!
Reesha says
I went through college critiquing other people's work and always felt at a loss for how I was supposed to do it. If I found something that needed changing, I didn't want to say it because they'd immediately jump down my throat, but if I didn't find anything, they'd accuse me of being lazy and not really looking hard enough.
Sometimes it's a no win situation. But I'm very glad to have read this post. I am blessed with a cousin who also loves to write and who gives and receives feedback in an awesome way.
When we send our manuscripts to each other, if we're anxious for feedback (which is a lot) we tag it with "Show me the meaning of haste, Shadowfax!"
Regan Leigh says
Thanks for the post! This comes at the perfect time for me.
Tricia J. O'Brien says
Thanks Rick (and Nathan) for posting this. Any serious writer needs to know how to give-and-take critique and Rick has pointed out methods that keep critique civil and productive.
I love Rick's Slushpile and learn from participating. If you want to give useful advice to someone else you must think about the craft, and any time you do that you help yourself as well.
One more snippet of advice: Know When To Shut Up. The critiquer can occasionally get carried away with their opinion. Once you've said your piece, move on. And the one getting the critique shouldn't argue or defend–just sit on it, as Rick said, and consider it.
Vacuum Queen says
Yep…I agree with the part about waiting to see if there's a pattern before you change things. I was too whimpy with my last book and let every person's advice go into my changes. I should've waited it out to see if only one person felt that way, or many people felt that way.
What about this, though….you're in a critique group, you take advice, you go home and rework parts, but NOT a certain part that someone didn't like. Next week, you return with your same old part and they ask you, "why did you ask for my opinion if you weren't going to change it?!"
Argh. I live in a small town and there aren't that many critique groups out there. In fact…as far as I know, there's only one, broken into 3 tables at the library. I keep burning bridges and switching tables…
Thomas Taylor says
Yes, the sandwich every time, please.
One thing though — in my experience some agents are 'critique partners', and get their hand dirty grooming texts. I've been told this is becoming the norm.
Rick Daley says
Vacuum Queen:
"why did you ask for my opinion if you weren't going to change it?!"
First, make sure the upset critiquer was not breaking this guideline to begin with:
– Don’t hunt for things just because you feel you have to suggest something. Sometimes the work we review is really good.
I think if someone gets really upset because you didn't accept their suggestion, they may have an ego problem and may not be a good critique partner.
I would add to the list of "What not to Do When Giving a Critique":
– Don't expect the writer to incorporate all of your suggestions
Rick Daley says
Reesha:
Thank you for the additional LOTR reference!
Rick Daley says
Neil: That's a tough call without reading the work in question.
I know there are guideline for "fan fiction" and people writing stories about other authors' characters. You need authorization to write a Star Wars novel, for example…and then there are specific guidelines you must follow.
I think this is likely to fall into that same category.
I think that would be a great topic for a Nathan post!
C.J. Ellisson says
The sandwich approach is my style of critting – and thanks! I didn't know it had a name.
Great blog article! The old saying of you attract more flies with sugar water than with vinegar can be applied to the advice in a crit.
If the advice is given in a polite voice, it will be listened to. If it is a pile of S*** it will still attract flies, but the smell will be so bad you won't care.
fred limberg says
From one with a query in current rotation on Rick's site I'm happy to report that the reviewers who took a look at my work all pretty much followed the guidelines.
It's awesome, and my query letter is much improved.
D. G. Hudson says
Excellent posting, Rick. Your points about accepting the critique, but digesting the feedback is very good advice. The last critique group I was a part of obviously wasn't aware of the etiquette required.
I try to listen, mull over the suggestions in feedback, to see if it would improve my story, and toss out what I think doesn't apply. Some of the hardest critiques offer the best advice – if they don't crush your spirit beforehand. (or else there could be the tirade that INK mentions in his comment)
Congrats on being a guest blogger, Rick, your comments are always worth reading.
Ink says
Rick,
I thought it was pretty &%$*#@ing unbelievable too. I mean, the $%$&^#@&ing rant is the key to the whole thing.
My best,
&%^$#^%ing Bryan
PurpleClover says
Oh Rick Rick Rick. How uber-spooky that I mentioned hanging your critique on my wall when you were announced as winning the guest blog. I have…like…ESPN or something…lol.
Anyhow, I agree whole-heartedly with your post. It is hard to swallow good critique (and I did see the "sandwich" approach in your critique by the way as well as a few others, lol).
Great post!
P.S. At least I read your full post. 😛
Ink says
Bane,
Are you calling me verbose? Just let me grab the first half of my rebuttal here… (the print shop ran out of paper in the middle… said they had a new order coming in on Monday.)
Neil says
Hey Rick,
Yeah I've read several reviews of the "Rye" sequel that say the same: it reads like fan fiction. The funny thing is, I hear sales of Salinger's original book have seen a small spike as a result of this pseudo-sequel. I honestly think, now Salinger's been dragged out of his self-imposed exile to the extent that he at least has his lawyers telling the world how he feels, there's never been a better time for another Salinger book to be released. Imagine that! No interviews, no readings, no website, no blog tie-ins, just a brand new Salinger work speaking for itself. Show the imitators how it's done.
Plus, I don't really get why you'd want to do a sequel to a book that wasn't yours (certainly not as your first book). Maybe I'm wrong and this Colting/California guy has put out numerous works before, but why not release something that's wholly your own and prove your chops that way? Perhaps this is all a ploy, and the scandal is just being used to create an appetite for what Colting's first original work will be… I don't know. It's like this Jane Austen Vs Whoever craze — I just don't get it. I'm obviously getting old!
Ink says
Neil,
He's doing it because he's going to make a lot of money. How many people, say, are going to buy a mediocre novel from someone without a reputation? And how many are going to buy a sequel to Catcher in the Rye? Obviously a publisher saw the same thing. All about the marketing.
Neil says
Ink —
You're right in theory, but from what I understand the sales of the sequel haven't been that great yet. Though having the NY Times and others throw their weight behind you and start using your work as a way to have a discussion about free speech is a pretty good way of driving sales.
It's funny how quite often the most controversial books get the most mediocre receptions. That book about Mohammed's wife, for example.
PS Rick maybe you could replace Paula Abdul yourself…
Ink says
Neil,
Yeah, I'd agree with that. I do think that was the publisher's reasoning, though – they saw an angle they could play. I guess I'm hoping that a lot of people will be like me, and say "Why would I want to read a sequel to Catcher in the Rye that's not by Salinger?"
Steph Damore says
Hey Laurel,
The ending of my latest novel bothered me a bit – a felt that it was too rushed. I wanted to point it out to my beta readers right away, but instead I waited.
So far the jury's split. One reader said it was rushed; the other, not so much (after I asked, seeing she didn't mention it in her feedback).
However, instead of waiting for my third reader, I've revised the ending. Added to it really (about 5,000 words). I decided that even if it didn't bother my readers, it still bothered me, so I fixed it. I might be biased, but I think it was for the best.
Mira says
I decided to re-write that just a tad….
Rick, I'm sort of disappointed. I was kind of assuming this would be your usual cool post, and I'd do lots of cheering and admiring and a plug for the Query Slushpile. I thought I knew what to expect….
But darn. This isn't your usual cool post.
This is a great post.
Now what do I do?
Oh I know. Someone told me what to do.
I'll sandwich my feedback:
a. Rick, this is excellent. It's an outstanding breakdown. Well-organized, thoughtful and accurate. I learned things while reading it, like sandwiching, and will flag it to re-read it again. That's not something I do often. I loved that you touched on both the writer and the critiquer's perspective succinctly and clearly. Very well done!
b. You forgot to put anything about ignoring feedback if it really doesn't fit. No matter how many or who gives you the feedback. No matter how many times Randy tells you that you could sing a phonebook, don't do it. Do not sing the phonebook.
c. You absolutely deserve the chance to shine here. Not only for the quality of your post, but for the Query Slushpile. The Query Slushpile is an absolute gem, and it deserves the publicity. I hope you post a link to this at the top of the Query Slushpile, if you haven't already.
Nicely done, Mr. D. Color me impressed.
Bane of Anubis says
Maybe I'll write a sequel to The Bible (that thing seems to sell pretty well) — not exactly sure what I'll call it, though.
Steph Damore says
The World: According to Bane
Just a suggestion…
Ink says
Anubis Gates?
Oops, already taken…
Margaret Yang says
Excellent post, Rick! In my experience, writers are very tuned into the "negative" parts of the critique. I have learned the hard way that saying something nice is essential. Even if the manuscript is terrible, dig deep for something to say that's positive. Don't worry that you're diluting your message–can't be done. Even if you sandwich it, the writer will zero in on the parts that that beta reader didn't like. Don't know why. Human nature, I guess.
Bane of Anubis says
Steph – I like it… blurb… "You thought the Vatican was pissed by The DaVinci Code" — speaking of which, would it be blasphemous to blurb The Bible? ("A Tour de Force… especially the walking on water part" "That John cat really had some great ideas – can't understand half of them, but there's poetry in dem der hills.")
Bryan – hadn't heard of the book — googled it — sounds right up my alley… gonna have to check it out.
Mariana says
Fantastic clear advice. Thank you!