A little experiment and conversation starter for this Wednesday.
We all know that getting published is hard and that only the strong survive, to the point that agents only take on a handful of clients a year despite thousands of submissions. At the same time, accurate feedback is rare in this business, and it’s hard for someone to get a sense of their abilities. This might be a way of measuring that.
So You Tell Me: based on what you have seen from comments and contests, do you think you’re a better writer than the average reader of this blog?
Then let’s discuss the results and implications in the comments section.
Better or worse is too subjective when referring to writing. I don’t understand why a lot of things are popular. It’s a matter of taste.
P.S. Remember how funny and incongruously pompous it always sounded when Yogi told Boo-boo he was “smarter than the average bear?”
Here’s the deal: Better than average just means we’re in the top half.
That’s not very hard to do, is it?
To be published, we need to be in the top one percent, I think. Do you ask for completes on one out of a hundred proposals, Nathan? I hear that pretty consistently quoted.
So if we think we’re in the top half of the readers here, that still doesn’t mean we’re going to get published.
But there is way to get feedback and judge our writing. We can enter respectable contests, and we can look at our rejections. More personal, encouraging rejections or more form letters? Winning good contests or consistently missing?
You can also pay for critiques and edits. It’s money well spent.
Judging the blog writers/readers by their comments is a faulty endeavor indeed.
Just by my own comments… which tend to be spartan in content, I know that other readers become more or less verbose.
I love this question! Seriously I do. I guess that all depends on your definition of a “better writer”.
I believe that I have an incredible story and a book that will be for the masses. No, it’s not the best as far as sentence structure. I’m sure that many of you could say the same thing more eloquently. But, that’s not who I am. I’m writing for teens and those who read iconic books. (ie Twilight, Harry Potter, ect.) The story is like no other and it fashioned in a realistic way that I feel makes it special.
So, do I believe that I’m a better writer…No, I do not. Smarter…maybe.
Ego lego. You may think you’re a better runner, but it’s only the stopwatch that can prove it. You may think you’re a better writer, but I’m stuck as to how you can apply a measurement to that. Perhaps only Nathan is the judge here. I know you need ego to think you’re better, and any dinner is tastier when it’s made with lurve.
Sorry for such a late post…I work ten hours a day. I don’t check the blog until late.
This is interesting, to say the least. It is a question that most writers probably ask themselves from time to time, from doubt to doubt, from inspiration to inspiration. Are we any good? Are we better than the next? Or…can we compare to those who have made it to the top? Does it really matter? After reading books by the “successful” on writing techniques and methods, can we relate? Do we have the same powerful force driving us to write another book, short story, or blog response whether we are (or get) published or not? If we write because we are afraid NOT to….then, we are among the top regardless of whether or not we find that “agent connection.” I voted “yes” because I breathe to write.
Hell no! I’m intimidated by every person here.
Adam H, since Nathan confined his question to the average reader of of his blog, the sample is not biased as the objective pertains only to the population of readers *who* (not *that* -g) read this blog. Also, the number of votes at this writing stands at 448, which is a good sample size for this population.
me rite gud.
me rite guder dan anywon.
I said no because, like Josh, I’m not sure about the talent of the people who visit this blog. Who’s to say some of the greats aren’t the average reader?
Just Me — since when isn’t science fiction commercial fiction?
To borrow from the Karate Kid:
You’re the best!
Around!
Nothing’s gonna ever keep you down
You’re the Best!
Around!
Nothing’s gonna ever keep you down
You’re the Best!
Around!
Nothing’s gonna ever keep you dow-ow-ow-ow-own
I think that there’s certain things about my writing that are better, but there are certain things that other people are better at.
(Talk about circumlocution and totally beating around the bush.)
I am able to improve, though, and I will become better, and that’s what counts!
ManiacScribbler =^..^=
Dear Nathan,
I’ll bite. I’m a better than average humorist. That’s my forte. I love making people laugh. The more they respond, the harder I work. Being a stage performer helps, because I get instant feedback on my material.
From the comments on this blog pertaining to the business of writing, I’d say I’m average at making pithy posts.
I’m not as good a fiction writer. My material is narrative nonfiction that soars into fancy. It always returns to something I’ve experienced first hand.
I may be better at writing essays. I was born writing, at least that’s the family legend. And I’ve never stopped practicing, whether it’s Letters to the Editor, media releases, journaling or interviews with business people for the paper.
My Ukrainian cookbook narrated by a wild, malcontent Baba is going to be an enormous hit. In the end, what counts for me is that no one else in the world can recount these stories of my precious heritage in the same way. It’s my mission, so no comparisons can be made. In my 40’s, I’m finally learning to balance excellence in craft with popular taste.
I think I’m a better writer than the people who answered no.
No doubt about it: We’re ALL better writers than the individual that posted at 11:29 pm–a post destined to be remove by The Administrator, I should hope, LOL
Hahahaha… no. I think I’m an average writer, at best.
However, the type of writer who seeks out agents’ blogs will tend to be above average. From what I’ve seen in various competitions Nathan has held, people are generally better than me. They’re also the best of the better writers out there.
So despite not being as good as the other commenters on this blog, I think I’m doing okay.
I’m not trying to be better than other writers. Their quality of writing cannot take away from the quality of mine.
However…I am definately a better writer BECAUSE I read this blog.
Thank you, Nathan!
I’ve only started reading today, so I will uncategorically claim to be superior. Tomorrow, after I have actually read anything by the other readers, I will hang my head in shame. But for now, I’m the best!
This may not be the best time for my first comment on your site. But, oh well, here goes: hell yes, I’m a great writer! Of course, for a while I thought I was a great cook and you can ask my husband how that turned out. My schtick is humor and insight into the crazy world of rock and roll. I love to write what I love to write about. And, when I’m writing about what I love to write about, I’m damn good!;)
Nathan,
You want a high ration of “Yes” to “No” votes because science shows…
1. Most of us think we’re better than average on everything that matters (intelligence, looks, driving skills, you name it).
2. Or rather, most mentally healthy people do.
3. Those who are mildly depressed do see the truth about themselves more accurately. (But they often tend to see others as better than they really are.)
4. The optimists and mentally healthy folks who see themselves as better than average are more successful.
5. Thus, seeing the truth about our writing puts us at a disadvantage for success in publishing.
Oooh, I called it wrong. Lots more humility than I expected here.
Yes
…in light of all the rookie mistakes in the contests.
I picked “no” not because I don’t think I’m a good writer but because I don’t know the average blog reader here. Many of them may be published already. There are plenty of anonymous commenters to factor in as well.
But the big reason I can’t tell?
Dood, we’re writing comments on internet blogs. Writing fiction is a whole different brain function. And I don’t know many people who bother spell-checking their blog comments, know what I mean?
Some days yes, some days no-freaking-way-what-am-I-thinking.
Today, however, is a yes day. (:
Would we keep trying if we didn’t think we were better than average? I think a healthy confidence in one’s abilities is a good thing.As long as it’s backed up by hard work and being able to accept criticism in order to better yourself.
I said yes. Then I read all the comments. Hmm, perhaps I am a little arrogant.
I’ll never be a great writer if I keep spending my precious writing time reading this blog.
Very peculiar question. The only right answer is “That depends.” I read all 759 pages of J.K. Rowling’s “The 7 Deathly Hallows” in a 24-hr period. I tried for 6 months to read Mark Haddon’s “The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night,” and just couldn’t get past page 140. Does it mean Mr. Haddon is a bad writer and Ms. Rowling is a good writer? No. Beauty is in the eye of the reader.
No, because I think the average reader of this blog far surpass my abilities as a reader. How do I know this? Well, as I read the comments answering Mr. Bransford’s posts on what are you reading, what’s your favorite book, etc….I come up with a big fat zero for myself. I should just post a blank comment when he does this and then you’ll know what I’m talking about.
I totally believe good reading habits are essential to being and becoming a good writer. Since I have the attention span of a kumquat, it takes me days to read a cozy mystery, or thriller, much less a book with considerably more literary weight.
Recently, I tried to read Edith Wharton’s, “The Age of Innocence,” and, well, let’s just say I aged twenty years in the first chapter trying to keep up with who’s who. And this is after I saw the movie, so I have a definite problem with reading comprehension relative to attention span problems.
These I can conquer over time, given patience and perseverance, but I think my writing will suffer until I do.
Greenleaf – interesting point…
I would definitely say that JKR isn’t a “good” writer in the classical sense (not to say she’s a bad one, either), but she’s an excellent storyteller (although she succumbed to serial-itis in her last few books – i.e., too much fluff and filler).
I find good writing much easier to identify in the audio-format. When I hear certain words (frequently adverbs) spoken aloud, I cringe at the awkwardness of it. There are many good-selling authors (admittedly, mostly in the YA genre) that seem like horrible writers, but that could be because I’m listening to the story on tape (or from my wife reading to me :)… I’ve never tried reading a story and then listening to it to see how much my perception is affected… hmmmm….
I voted yes! But only after peeking at some of the comments. I think it’s good to have a healthy sense of self-worth, but knowing where you fall in the pile takes time and lots of reading. The more I read in the genre in which I hope to get published, the better able I am to discern at what level is my work. I don’t really think I can tell how I stack up to everyone else who reads this blog, simply because I haven’t read all their work. But I like to be positive!
AH! Nate-dowg, y’all just trying to trick a homegirl like me. I’m onto you, bro. This is like a trick question. I remember when you did the post about picking out the plot of the story and NONE of the options was the right one – not even the snakes on a plane one that was just a theme or premise or whatev’. I’m not falling for this again. My answer is… um… chicken. Yah, you heard right. Chicken.
Nope.
If you’d have asked “Do you think you’re a better writer than the average person who calls himself a writer?” I’d have said yes, hands down.
But I think it takes something to be a regular reader of yours and others’ helpful blogs, and I’m willing to bet the “average reader” here is well above average in the slush pile.
I voted no but that’s my default reaction to most questions like this. I still feel like I have a lot to learn but I am getting there and I can see a huge improvement from when I started but there’s still lots of work to be done. It takes me a lot of rewrites to actually say what I mean in the best possible way. I’m always slightly in awe of people who can put down there thoughts and opinions quickly, I’d only blog about once a month if I did that.
For some reason, my comment yesterday never posted.
I voted no… I do not think I’m better, but neither do I believe I’m worse. And I believe that what is better and worse is different to different people. I have some skills that others lack, but others have skills that I lack.
HOWEVER… I also think the average reader of this blog is a better writer than the average aspiring author out there. Those of us here are willing to learn. We’re not arrogant about our skills, we’re doing our best to discover our skills so we can hone them, and discover our weaknesses so we can eliminate them. That’s always going to result in better writing than those who aren’t interested in learning what they’re doing wrong.
Did someone mention a “wild, malcontent baba?”
Hi Reisa,
Your post reminded me of Adrienne Rich’s line about the “raging stoic grandmothers.”
I went to your blog – your cookbook is over 500 pages long? Wow! I made a little recycled-cardboard cookbook about a Snegoruchka (Russian for Mother Frost), “Salon of the Nine Cookies.” It’s a play on a room in the Chinese Palace in Saint Petersburg, Salon of the Nine Muses.
I wish us both luck with our cookbooks!
Since I went to school for screenwriting and I am attempting to write my first novel, I would say experience would win out in favor of the average reader. I am confident in my ability as a writer, however I am sure there are people who have been writing novels as long as I have been writing screenplays. That said, I feel I have a lot of things to say about a myriad of issues that warrants more description than I can fit in a screenplay so I plan to learn the intricacies of the literary field and work to publish novels in the future.
Jamiyl Samuels
All I can say about this post is:
Oh, snap, Nathan!
Well, I guess I could also vote …
If one doesn’t have faith in one’s own abilities then how could one ask an agent to choose their work over another’s? A certain level of vanity is required to excel in any pursuit, especially the arts. The task is how one tempers that egotism with humility before being thought of as an ass.
I was going to say that confidence is necessary for a writer’s success, but Jim Lamb and others have already said it. If I didn’t think I could write, I wouldn’t submit my work. If I didn’t think I could improve, I wouldn’t ask for a critique. Both of these exercises are essential, I believe.
Same back atcha, Wanda! Love your site. Nice balance of text and graphics. It’s charming.
Do you want to swap links?
Re: 500 pages of recipes. Well, that’s
Volume I…
No. I think most are way better at witting than me. I work really hard, but I’m still learning. I think I have a really good story, but I am very aware that it needs some work.
Adam H, since Nathan confined his question to the average reader of of his blog, the sample is not biased as the objective pertains only to the population of readers *who* (not *that* -g) read this blog. Also, the number of votes at this writing stands at 448, which is a good sample size for this population.
Dang, you’re better than me at statistics *and* writing. I guess it’s a good think I answered “no”.
I wish. Too often I provide clichéd responses in the passive voice.
I am working on my blog responseship and am improving slowly.
Dear Marjory,
I read a study with similar outcomes. This one also said that people who blame others more frequently than taking on blame themselves are mentally healthier.
I had to sit with that for a while. I don’t think dodging responsibility is healthy. Then I did some reading on Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy, which teaches you to evaluate external circumstances and balance them against personal choice.
Now it makes sense. If an agent rejects your ms, it IS healthier to say, “Oh well, that’s just his opinion,” and go on to the next.
Hi Reisa,
Swap links, swap links…I have a very basic website, so I have to find a place to PUT links…give me a week or so to find a place to put links, and I’ll let you know when I’ve linked to your blog. I have very basic HTML skills, and it seems like when I try and make one little change to my template (like add links) all of a sudden nothing lines up right, etc.
*Prosim*
But I should have links. Everyone needs links!
PS Wikipedia also has a great page about Babas I thought. I am half Slovak by the way.
Wanda
I didn’t vote. Best guess regarding my writing skills versus your readers: A resounding I DUNNO.
In the absence of any statistical or empirical standards to measure the quality of writing, we have to rely on a consensus of experts.
Most literati would agree that F. Scott Fitzgerald was a brilliant writer.
The same intellectuals would likely brand Stephenie Meyer and JK Rowling mediocre at best.
Yet they wrote stories that captured the hearts of the world and made everyone around them mountains of money.
Can I write stories like that? Maybe.
Can I write a query letter that will convince an agent of my skill? No. I’m no good at less than two hundred pages.
Yet I know that, at the end of the day, my life will be wonderful. It already is. How many agents can say that?
I do envy your blog readership. Amazing.
I’m blogging on my Amazon Bestseller Day last December on my new blog for scribblers and their friends. Your Shelf Life: How Long Will You Last? It’s dedicated to promoting sanity in the literary field. Scroll to the beginning to get the whole thing; I’m on post four now. This set of articles is what you wish you knew before giving Randy Gilbert your $2300.
Voted “no” since I’m in the beginning of a steeeeeep learning curve where I can pull the basic ideas/imagery/stuff together to make something (possibly) brilliant in, say, 10 years or so if I don’t lose the courage.
Why can’t polls like this include the choice of “Neither”?