A little experiment and conversation starter for this Wednesday.
We all know that getting published is hard and that only the strong survive, to the point that agents only take on a handful of clients a year despite thousands of submissions. At the same time, accurate feedback is rare in this business, and it’s hard for someone to get a sense of their abilities. This might be a way of measuring that.
So You Tell Me: based on what you have seen from comments and contests, do you think you’re a better writer than the average reader of this blog?
Then let’s discuss the results and implications in the comments section.
Very much agreeing with Devon Ellington on this one. I don’t use blog comments to judge someone’s writing ability (unless there are multiple, blatant spelling and grammatical errors). When I’m writing a story, I put more thought into the prose than when I’m writing a quick blog comment. I scrutinize every word in a story more closely than I do a comment here, unless I have a specific point that I need to be very clear in making. I assume most people do the same. I feel more comfortable judging my place in the hierarchy of writing ability when reading blogs like Query Shark, where I suppose people are likely to put more effort into showcasing their wordsmithing abilities.
As for judging my ability in comparison to others’ in a contest…it depends. In some of the past contests, I haven’t particularly cared for the finalists chosen. I either liked my own entry or others I read while skimming through better. Other times, I’ve completely agreed with the finalist selections and/or the eventual winner.
You may as well ask: do you think you’re a better person that the average human being?
Well, I was one of the six finalists in your last first paragraph contest, so I think I can safely say I’m a good writer. I agree with Kiersten up at the very top of the comments: deciding to write requires a certain amount of confidence. My confidence wavers a lot, but I keep trying to get better as I go along.
Or who thinks they’re a better writer than the average published writer?
Anyone have the chutzpah for that one?
I said no. Ask me again in a year and I bet I’ll say yes.
I’m still learning so much about writing in general. Half the time I can’t even spell common words properly, forget about proper grammar.
I sort of agree with some of the earlier writers, that writing and especially wanting to be published calls for healthy doses of confidence, arrogance, and talent.
I do see that some commenters have strengths in others areas, where I’m lacking, but that’s another discussion entirely. If you know you’re writing strengths and know what separates you from the rest, then I’d hope you’d be better than the average writer or reader.
Oh I get it! This is an essay question!!!
Yipeee!~!!
You have two writers.
Writer A surfs the internet all day, comments on Nathan’s blog occasionally, reads up on all things writerly, and is somewhere in her fifth draft on her third still-in-the-closet novel.
Writer B has published fifteen self-published minibooks, leads a writers’ workshop once a week at the Ladies Club, gives public poetry readings at Brains R Us Booksellers, has a PhD in education, and is writing his memoirs with a slant towards fiction.
If they are both traveling at the velocity of 1 paragraph every six minutes during their up time and four deleted words per half-paragraph and Writer A is using a two year old MAC and Writer B is using a four year old PC and Writer A is surrounded by one supportive person and seven who think she’s should get a job as an insurance broker and Writer B has been a runnerup for at least one out of seven of Nathan’s contests, has a fan base of seventy-seven high school girls who covet his every word,who will get a first request for a partial and who will be the first to break into legitimate print?
Ladies and Gentlemen, you may pick up your pencils.
Purple Clover was right to admonish me. I failed to get my point across in the earlier comparison between writers and women.
When I said beautiful woman I meant, the flashy high maintenance high fashion kind of beauty that all guys lust over at one time or other … the Pris Hilton’s and what not. They make a dazzling appearance but that shine soon fades because there is no substance underneath. And yes, definitely there are women who have both as there are writers that are true wordsmiths and storytellers. But they are rare creatures indeed.
Wait, this is a psychology experiment, isn’t it? I’m not touching it …
anonnumberone,
The “smart” quote was lifted from a study, and so not my words. I posted it as a joke at my own expense for voting that I thought I was above average.
If I want to be a published novelist, it doesn’t matter whether I’m better than the average reader of an agent’s blog or not. I have to be superlatively better than the average writer in my chosen genre(s). That’s the stick that matters. Once “better” is clearly defined ;o) Or maybe I just have to be luckier. Or better connected…
So if there are 100 people vying for a publisher’s slot in epic fantasy and 99 of those people write brilliant, internalized literary fiction but wouldn’t know a fantasy trope if they tripped over one, and I’m the only one in the room who turns in a story with the genre’s requisite characters and plot, then what matter the brilliance of the 99 when it comes decision time?
Alas, those aren’t how the odds usually stack up…
I think that I’m a raunchier writer than the average reader of this blog. Whether that is better or worse all depends on individual perspective.
Spring has sprung…the grass is riz…I wonder where them flowers is. I voted “Yes”.
Yes.
(People here use too many words).
Given your Hot Spot for Plot, I can vote, “Yes, but tough to Test.”
Nathan,
Just thought about this: Do you judge a writer’s skill based on their posts on your blog? Can you tell who’s a good writer from blog posts? Opening two cans of worms might be better than opening just one. 🙂
Marilyn-
Good question! No, don’t think blog comments are generally a good reflection because hey, it’s a blog, and if someone judged me by my blog and particular my comments they probably would think my writing riddled with typos and nonsequitors.
I do think I can tell more based on contests, but by no means do I think it’s a be-all-end-all or anything.
From years in the trenches:
1. It isn’t as it good as you think it is.
2. Other writers are better than you are.
3. If you don’t keep at it, you’re not going to get anywhere.
4. If you don’t read widely, you’re not going to write wisely.
5. Adjectives and adverbs are perfectly fine.
Or, the same from a different and equally valid perspective:
1. It’s better than you think it is.
2. You can be as good as any other writer.
3. If you keep at it, you’ll get somewhere.
4. If you read widely, you’ll be writing wisely.
5. Adjectives and adverbs are still perfectly fine.
In addressing the confidence issue . . . I did not begin to write because I had confidence in my writing. I did not begin to write because I thought I could write. I began to write because I finished a book and wanted to know what happened to the characters after the book ended. So, perhaps there is some arrogance in what I did, I took those characters I had grown to love so much and continued on with their lives. It was only when I finished their story, that I truly realized that I wanted to write.
So, confidence did not exist when I first began to write.
I like to think that my work stands on it’s own. Am I better than the “average” reader of this blog? Don’t know. Can I be better than I am today? Oh yes. There lies the challenge.
Regarding what I said earlier…
I just can’t imagine anyone would seriously think they will eventually be published if they aren’t better than the average writer on one dude’s blog.
I mean, yes, if you just picked up a pen yesterday and you are learning the ropes, ok…but come on…you either think you have what it takes (and are therefore better than almost every other writer on this planet), or you don’t. And if you don’t have what it takes, then why write with the goal of being published?
There are more exciting ways to lose my hair than stressing out over being an author. If I didn’t think I was the best writer on this blog, I would NEVER write professionally. For fun, yes…but you wouldn’t be on Nate Dawg’s blog if you were just writing as a hobby.
I voted No because I know for a fact that the judge is biased.
Oh, and I assume my comments are being confused with arrogance. I fully believe writers need to be humble enough to know their writing can improve. We can all get better and I am thankful for honest criticism.
But if I played basketball at my local gym and I thought 50 guys were better than me, would I seriously try out for the NBA? Of course not. That is my point. Now I am off to lose more hair.
Thanks for your answer, Nathan!
I think the answer is my word verification:
veriable
I work everyday on becoming a better writer, which is a good chunk of the reason I read publishing blogs. Yours attracts some very talented people. So am I better than them?
Hell yeah! 🙂
Real answer: Probably not so much, but I didn’t vote because I think it’s impossible to judge “better” based on blog entries.
Oh Travis,
I’m just joshin’ with you! I knew what you meant the first time. 🙂
I’m just givin’ you a hard time.
But given your personal circumstances, I probably should have left you alone! I’m sure you don’t need more headaches. 🙂
This sounds like the question: “Do you believe you drive better than the average driver?” And everyone answers yes.
So… what exactly is the point of the question?
In my mind, I am better than average in everything I do.It would be nice to be polled by others to see what their perception of me as a writer holds. Sure, I have had a few reviews for the amazon shorts program, but until I snag an agent that is willing to take a chance on my work,I remain average…as far as perception goes.
I’m new to the blog, so it feels terribly rude to say yes.
I’ve recently seen friends get book deal though, and I don’t begrudge them their success at all. They’ve been working for years to get there.
I think it’s a natural instinct to think, ‘I can do better than that.’ But that doesn’t mean it’s always the case.
Hmm. Anyway, yes. I couldn’t help it.
“But if I played basketball at my local gym and I thought 50 guys were better than me, would I seriously try out for the NBA? Of course not. That is my point.”
But you can see those guys, so you know, right? If the question were asking how you felt about your writing after browsing a book store, than I can almost see the analogy. Writing isn’t quite as straightforward as “getting the ball in the hoop” or not.
I’ve no idea what 99% of the people who comment here are writing; not the genre, the voice, or the POV. Some chime in with snippets, others adopt a smooth conversational prose. All get the job done.
Personally, I write what I want to read, enjoy doing it and rarely think about other writers and how good they are. In fact, I assume most are just as good or better, but I know none are writing MY story. I think my impetus to work towards a career comes from a belief somewhere deep inside that my voice, my style and my story will appeal. I certainly don’t expect an agent to place a stencil over my MS and see if it lines up as “better than average”.
I do wonder what people think about their work compared to published authors that they see. I imagine there is some sort of benchmark, which may be closer to what some are saying.
Anonymous 1:35 that totally cracked me up.
I’m going with the guy with 75 teenage fans, teenagers are always the first to start new trends.
Oh, I’m late in the game here, but I’ll offer up 2 thoughts.
1. I think the readers here are as yet unpublished (for the most part) writers looking for advice and a sense of community. So I’m happy to count myself as on par with them all.
2. I’ve visited loads of commenters sites and I’ll second my statement above.
Interesting quesiton. Is this kind of like having the girls on the Bachelor vote for one of their own for eviciton?
Heh, that’s a no for one simple reason: I have always sucked at actually being funny in blog comments. 😀
I don’t. I may be published and have an agent, but man, I’ve seen samples of writing by many of the folks who visit here. Most impressive! 8^)
Of course I’m a better writer than the average reader on this blog especially as there are so many anonymous answers which is a tell-tale sign how insecure these readers are. It baffles me that people have not the guts to put their names to what they write. Are they ashamed of what they have written?
Nevertheless, I do believe that most readers on this blog are pretty smart, which only goes to inflate my own ego, since I am competing with intelligent and creative writers on the whole and not a bunch of dudes, by a long shot. Incidentally, I enjoyed reading the answers.
I voted no. I have no idea what the capabilities of the rest of your readers are, but I am fully aware that I am still learning, and therefore, probably less accomplished than most. Thanks for the chance to vote! That was fun!
Yes, I’m better. I haven’t won any contests, but my friends say I’m a wonderful writer and often go into detail about how my writing has touched them. When they can give me specifics, I tend to believe them. Maybe I shouldn’t, but I’m sticking with yes.
Is this a trick question?
As writers, I think most of us have to believe we possess at least a modicum of talent, or we’d throw in the towel. Comparing our abilities to those of others in the same boat, though, is a bit of a recipe for disaster, isn’t it? I mean, either we come across sounding arrogant or we imply a lack of self-confidence. I’m not sure I want to be in either of those groups. 😐
After reading the way people responded to Steve Fuller’s answer, I’m just going to leave that one alone.
By the way, Nathan, nice blog!
Long time reader, first time commenter.
I know I’m a good writer, but factoring in the popularity of this blog and the talent level of my brethren, I figured I needed to be a little humble here.
I said, no, I wasn’t a better writer. I’m not disingenuous. I don’t think I am better. Actually I think I’m a much better performer, vocally and on stage–I think those are my real gifts. That’s why I’m going to go further as a writer than if I thought I was really great. I can take lots of criticism–I deserve it. I’m unflappable. And I never give up. But if were a performer and someone didn’t immediately and fully appreciate my gifts, I be so disappointed, I’d lose heart. And I a great writer? No. Am I a hard worker? You bet. Do I have an agent? Yes. Have I written more than two books and countless stories? Yes. I’m simply not afraid of failing at this. I love it but I know I can do other things better.
Can I craft a better story than most? Absolutely!
Have I been trained in the subtle rules of writing? No. I don’t have an MFA. Instead my schooling was shaped by my love of math, logic and building things. Because of these quirks of my personality I ended up in with a career in engineering.
For fun I wrote a first draft for a fiction novel. The few people that have read it liked it. Or course there is the possibility that becasue they are my friends they are lying to protect my feelings:-)
In any case, when I look at my draft I see a story I love, but I don’t see the poetry of language that I want. Because of that I checked no on your survey.
Yes… but only for my given genre and the kind of book I’m writing. I don’t write commercial fiction well. I couldn’t write a calculus text book.
I doubt I’m even better than all the sci-fi writers around here, but they can’t write my book. They can’t write what I want to read, if they did I’d be reading instead of writing. So it’s a bit of a trick question.
I might work harder than Dave F. I don’t know how he knows how hard I work, anyway…
Strange. I thought I was alone most of the time.
Honestly, I have no idea what the writing level of the average reader of this blog might be, and it never would have occurred to me to make that sort of comparison. So I demur. My immediate question is, what inspired you to ask this of us, Nathan? Any particular incidents or epiphanies you could share?
I voted ‘yes’. A writer needs confidence and a knowledge of how they compare with what’s out in the publishing world at the moment; they also need to have some exposure to the great writers of the past.
Whether a person has been published or not, they bring their own subjectivity and their own experience to their evaluation of another’s writing.
The ability to write a story that transports or informs the reader is more important than that person’s credentials.
Great question, and I see it as a good discussion topic, not divisive at all. A good debate is invigorating.
Why? What is the Web 2.0 obsession with ranking and judging, scoring and competing with one another? It all seems a bit silly, after a while.
Yes: I know the tools of the trade and I am one of the few writers who does, in fact, earn a decent living writing. Thank goodness – because I can’t do math. I think I’m a “better” writer than those who have no grasp of the mechanics and think that it shouldn’t matter, because their ideas are so utterly fascinating that the astute reader must surely put up with the twisted syntax, tormented spelling, and pained punctuation.
No: There will always be someone out there whose writing makes me think of learning a trade, like underwater welding. There will always be another writer who can bring me to tears or make me laugh until I cannot catch my breath with nothing but his writing. There will always be a writer whose skill doesn’t match mine, but whose sense of timing, trends, and readers’ taste is impeccable – whose style and themes are highly marketable – and thus she is wildly successful at selling her writing, while some of us sit here and debate, “Why?”
In the end, we are competing only with ourselves.
And Nathan, having seen what some people submit for publication, I have discovered that getting published is not tantamount to winning the lottery. It may be challenging, but the odds aren’t that bad.
I answered yes, but it’s difficult for me to compare my writing to others. Instead, I try to take a realistic view of my strengths and weaknesses. I had more than one agent offer representation, so I have some evidence that I’m on the right track. The MS is still in submission land. I’ve gotten some feedback from a couple of rejections. Two positive take aways are that I have a strong voice and the high concept is appealing. The negative comments related to secondary characters. So I’ve made progress, but I still have plenty of work to do on craft.
No. Compared to the general population, my writing is above average. Compared to the blog readers here, I don’t think it is. There’s a generally high standard of English in replies and contest entries. Quite a few people here are already published and have more writing experience.
I don’t see that as a problem though. The only way to get better is to keep trying.
How to read the results of this poll:
If the poll comes out 50/50, it means most people judged their own skills fairly accurately. After all, only about half of us can be “better than average”, by definition.
If the poll comes out skewed towards “Yes”, it means we (as a group) think too much of ourselves.
If the poll comes out skewed towards “No”, it means we think too little of ourselves.
But there will be a fair-sized margin of error because the sample-size is small and biased towards people that like to read what Nathan writes (sorry, Nathan, you are a locus of error ;-).