I voted “loathe.” Early drafts of my own novel began with dialogue, but I never could get comfortable with it. I’m sure that some writers can make it work…just not me.
If the dialogue’s well written, works within the story, and isn’t used as a lazy way to avoid establishing setting, characters, mood, voice, etc., I can love it.
So long as the dialogue is not out of place and is used to set something up, I see no problem with beginning a novel that way. It is often the first paragraph that makes me want to continue reading a book or make me put it down.
Being sick is no fun at all, hope you’re back up and kicking soon!
I hope you feel better soon. Thank you for your great website. As a long time writer, but neophyte to the ‘publishing’ concept, the website guides me in more ways that you know.
For commercial fiction at least, I would say dialog would work better if there was something going on at the same time to grab the reader’s attention. Something for the characters to talk about that gives a sense of urgency to the setting.
Oh really, just start it with the weather, for God sakes. Preferably: It was a dark and stormy night. And if you don’t like that, how about: Once upon a time…
Writer: It was the best of times; it was the worst of times.
Editor: Look, Chuck, this isn’t going to work. Which was it, the best or the worst? You can’t have it both ways. Why don’t you start with some dialogue or something.
Will you share your opinion with us tomorrow, Nathan?
I voted “depends”, because it really does depend. On the whole, I am not fond of beginning a book with dialogue; however, there have been a few books which have pleasantly surprised me, and I found that such an approach worked rather well in those situations.
I am not really fond of books that begin with casual, everyday exchanges – like “‘Hey,’ I said as Ted walked up to me. ‘You’re late today. What’s up?'” I really, really like entering the scene with the characters in the middle of a serious discussion. The world is ending, aliens are invading, the world as we know it may cease to exist… okay, maybe not THAT serious, but something OTHER than “Oh hey, we’re at school and I’m beginning the scene with a friendly exchange because I need to show you that I am a friendly person!”
Well, isn’t this “in medias res” but taken to the extreme? The problem with starting with dialogue, unless it’s truly memorable or shocking, is it requires catch up from the reader.
How are you supposed to be immediately drawn into the story, to feel empathy for the character, when you know nothing about them except for a few lines of dialogue? The opposite end of that conundrum would be info dumping, giving so much back story the reader goes to sleep. So my option would be start in the middle of the action but give us some glimpse of character as well as brief lines of dialogue.
I would generally think no dialogue at the beginning, but I voted “depends” because there are ways to make it work, but I think it’s much, much more difficult to do, and it is so easy for it to come out cheesy or trite.
I’ve seen it done to great effect, so I can’t say I loathe it for that reason. Are you wishing now that you hadn’t given us a third choice?
I hate that you are under the weather. Take it easy and get better soon.
I'm commenting on all my favorite blogs today to give them notice of Blog Action Day. Tomorrow tons of people will be posting about this years 'global cause' to help raise awareness. This year's theme is Poverty.
I like for the first sentence or paragraph to introduce the reader to the protagonist. This can be accomplished either with dialogue or a scene as long as the scene is not a dream or a description of a building or the weather.
Though I now live in Kansas, I still have connections in my home state of Louisiana. Rest assured that chickens are being killed, pins are being stuck in straw dolls, and all manner of gris gris are being rubbed to assure that you return to a copacetic state of being. I voted with the crowd. I think dialog is okay as a start as long as the character is wearing Depends.
If it’s good, pulls me in, and is brief, I have no trouble with it.
The problem with beginning with dialog is, of course, that the reader has no clue who these people are. But if written skillfully, it can be a great hook.
One of my favorite books starts out:
*** “TOM!”
No answer.
“TOM!”
No answer.
“What’s gone with that boy, I wonder? You TOM!”
No answer.
The old lady pulled her spectacles down and looked over them about the room; then she put them up and looked out under them. She seldom or never looked through them for so small a thing as a boy; they were her state pair, the pride of her heart, and were built for “style,” not service — she could have seen through a pair of stove-lids just as well. She looked perplexed for a moment, and then said, not fiercely, but still loud enough for the furniture to hear:
“Well, I lay if I get hold of you I’ll — “
*** If that opening dialog went on any longer, it wouldn’t work. But we discover quickly that Tom is a boy, and is probably in trouble for something (instant hook), and then that the person calling him is an old lady, who the author draws pretty well with a brief description containing action.
Works for me.
(Disclaimer, I realize that using a 100-year-old-plus example has its dangers, but this one still feels modern to me.)
JPod, by Douglas Coupland, is one of my favourite books. It begins like so: — “Oh God, I feel like a refugee from a Douglas Coupland novel.”
“That asshole.”
“Who does he think he is?”
“Come on, guys, focus. We’ve got a major problem on our hands.” — Really, when the book starts by insulting its author … you can’t put it down!
If a book begins with dialogue, it has to be good dialogue. But that goes the same for any beginning: it has to pull you in. Beyond that, I don’t see what the problem is with using dialogue to do that.
Couldn’t think of the last time I read a book that began with dialogue, so I found a list of “One Hundred Best First Lines From Novels” on pantagraph.com
Of my six favorites, some began with dialogue and some didn’t. More didn’t. So, I guess it depends.
I prefer to start my novels with some sort of action. Doesn’t matter if that action is talking or something. I enjoy books which start with a general philosphical statement (It was the best of times, etc, suffices). But I suck at that so I fall back on action. It’d be nice if the dialoge had something to do with the overall theme/plot of the book, too, not just the inciting incident, but we can’t have it all.
I’m not hung up on first lines, either. I always give books a longer leash than that.
Maris, your profile says your “nom be blog” consists of a combination of the Latin and French forms of the words that make up the name of your hometown. Red Stick Writer refers to my hometown, Baton Rouge. Of course, in its original French, it comes out Stick Red, but we forgive them since they invented pomme frites (French (AKA American)) fries.
The Depends thing reminds me of the Mardi Gras Krewe of Tuck. Friar Tuck’s is a bar near Tulane and Loyola in New Orleans. The Tuck parade started as a lark by college students but grew into a full-fledged krewe and parade. Members of the famous African-American Zulu krewe throw coconuts from their parade floats. Tuck members through Tuck’s hemorrhoid pads along with their dubloons and beads. Needless to say, Zulu has to pay bigger insurance premiums.
Let’s hope colds aren’t contagious through the internet. I woke up with a scratchy voice, a sore throat and a cough. I hope you’re feeling better soon.
I like a little bit of description (but not a page or two of it) before a conversation begins. I don’t like entering the middle of a conversation, whether in real life or in a book.
I cringe. It feels overdone. But I could easily be swayed to get behind the book soon enough if the story is good. I’m mostly there for the escape anyway. If Michael Connelly wants to starts with dialogue then I’ll go with it.
It reminds me of beginning a movie with one of the characters giving a lecture (class, conference, whatever) on something that ties into the story. Ugh.
Thanks, Scott — I was having a hard time remembering a book that starts with dialogue. The opening has to draw me in, whether it’s dialogue, action, setting, it has to be compelling writing. Feel better, Nathan.
I voted for Depends. (No, not that kind of Depends.) I think the dialogue has to be really strong to pull in the reader, though. I love when the setting or a character is vividly described first, but I also enjoy reading great novels that start with dialogue. I’m reading Ender’s Game by Orson Scott Card right now. I was pulled in from the very first sentence, and it starts with dialogue.
Iris Murdoch did it all the time. Check out the insane shouting match — culminating with an awful car crash — that gets The Philosopher’s Pupil off to a spectacular start.
I seem to have done it with the first three books in my series. Didn’t plan it that way, but now that it’s become a pattern, I think I’ll try to come up with clever ways to do it for the remaining two books. My first two books, not in the current series, began with narrative. I’m flexible, as long as it works.
However, in each case the dialogue I used was extrememly short and provocative, thereby drawing the reader in immediately. (the first line of Book Two is “Ow”.) By beginning in the middle of an argument, for example, it’s dialogue AND action, after a fashion.
I don’t go in for long descriptive passages that go nowhere as beginnings, but well-done, either dialogue or narrative is fine.
I voted ‘Depends’ and I’m not talking about the undergarments. I think the story should start the instant the primary protagonist takes the first step which propels her or him towards the inevitable conclusion. Sometimes that involves dialogue and sometimes not. Sometimes it’s easy to find that instant. Most of the time, at least for me, it takes a lot of work!
I voted ‘depends’ because I would want to give the book a chance to hook me by whatever means necessary. I certainly wouldn’t stop reading simply because the book opened with dialogue.
We were talking about this last week on a forum I hang around, and the general consensus – including from the resident agent and publisher – is that dialogue to open a novel is a big no-no (albeit with the caveat that knockout dialogue can always sway them…)
The general train of thought is that you can’t open up with someone saying something because the reader has no immediate affinity to the particular character, so there’s no hook.
My own view is that, as a reader and writer, I don’t mind – sometimes it does work, sometimes it stinks.
Anonymous says
Does it really matter how a book begins as long as you like it?
And I hope you feel better.
Anonymous says
The Invention of Hugo Cabret begins with a brief introdction and an illustration of the moon. I just want to be captivated by something.
Ulysses says
Definitely depends.
How can I love something that starts with bad dialog that turns out to have nothing to do with the plot?
Conversely, how can I loathe an opening that gives me a sense of character, situation and momentum?
I think dialog is a fine way to start a work, if it’s done right.
… and for the record, I loathe Depends, but reserve the right to change my mind in about thirty years.
Rene says
As with anything else, if it’s done well. 🙂
Derek Gentry says
I voted “loathe.” Early drafts of my own novel began with dialogue, but I never could get comfortable with it. I’m sure that some writers can make it work…just not me.
K.C. Shaw says
If the dialogue’s well written, works within the story, and isn’t used as a lazy way to avoid establishing setting, characters, mood, voice, etc., I can love it.
Thomas Mason says
So long as the dialogue is not out of place and is used to set something up, I see no problem with beginning a novel that way. It is often the first paragraph that makes me want to continue reading a book or make me put it down.
Being sick is no fun at all, hope you’re back up and kicking soon!
Anonymous says
I hope you feel better soon. Thank you for your great website. As a long time writer, but neophyte to the ‘publishing’ concept, the website guides me in more ways that you know.
Take care
Robert Treskillard says
For commercial fiction at least, I would say dialog would work better if there was something going on at the same time to grab the reader’s attention. Something for the characters to talk about that gives a sense of urgency to the setting.
Mark Terry says
Oh really, just start it with the weather, for God sakes. Preferably: It was a dark and stormy night. And if you don’t like that, how about: Once upon a time…
Writer: It was the best of times; it was the worst of times.
Editor: Look, Chuck, this isn’t going to work. Which was it, the best or the worst? You can’t have it both ways. Why don’t you start with some dialogue or something.
Maris Bosquet says
I’m a loather! (Heh heh…)
I suppose, though, that it really should depend. But there’s something about dialogue up front that strikes me as presumptuous and pretentious.
A book’s not a movie. I’ll read scripts if I want dialogue.
Feel better, Nathan!
Robert Treskillard says
Oh, and I forgot … hopefully you’re not feeling sick because you read a submission with bad dialogue at the beginning.
Maybe a new strain of dia-flu. Ach! Another dialoge sickness came to mind, but I won’t type that one. 😉
Michelle Moran says
Feel better!!!
Elyssa Papa says
I voted depends, too.
Joining you in the feeling under the weather department today. Here’s to some chicken noodle soup and sleep.
Gwen says
Will you share your opinion with us tomorrow, Nathan?
I voted “depends”, because it really does depend. On the whole, I am not fond of beginning a book with dialogue; however, there have been a few books which have pleasantly surprised me, and I found that such an approach worked rather well in those situations.
I am not really fond of books that begin with casual, everyday exchanges – like “‘Hey,’ I said as Ted walked up to me. ‘You’re late today. What’s up?'” I really, really like entering the scene with the characters in the middle of a serious discussion. The world is ending, aliens are invading, the world as we know it may cease to exist… okay, maybe not THAT serious, but something OTHER than “Oh hey, we’re at school and I’m beginning the scene with a friendly exchange because I need to show you that I am a friendly person!”
Robena Grant says
Well, isn’t this “in medias res” but taken to the extreme? The problem with starting with dialogue, unless it’s truly memorable or shocking, is it requires catch up from the reader.
How are you supposed to be immediately drawn into the story, to feel empathy for the character, when you know nothing about them except for a few lines of dialogue? The opposite end of that conundrum would be info dumping, giving so much back story the reader goes to sleep. So my option would be start in the middle of the action but give us some glimpse of character as well as brief lines of dialogue.
Guess I’m a loather. Hope you feel better soon.
lotusloq says
I would generally think no dialogue at the beginning, but I voted “depends” because there are ways to make it work, but I think it’s much, much more difficult to do, and it is so easy for it to come out cheesy or trite.
I’ve seen it done to great effect, so I can’t say I loathe it for that reason. Are you wishing now that you hadn’t given us a third choice?
I hate that you are under the weather. Take it easy and get better soon.
Eric says
Great. As long as it’s a rambling, incoherent slush of exposition and non sequiturs batted madly about between several either clichéd or never clearly-defined characters, speaking free from the shackles of punctuation in at least three different thick and obscure dialects, all phonetically spelled, and going on and on for several pages before inexplicably closing without resolution, never to be heard from again….
Get well.
Andi says
I'm commenting on all my favorite blogs today to give them notice of Blog Action Day. Tomorrow tons of people will be posting about this years 'global cause' to help raise awareness. This year's theme is Poverty.
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R. Battles says
I like for the first sentence or paragraph to introduce the reader to the protagonist. This can be accomplished either with dialogue or a scene as long as the scene is not a dream or a description of a building or the weather.
RED STICK WRITER says
Though I now live in Kansas, I still have connections in my home state of Louisiana. Rest assured that chickens are being killed, pins are being stuck in straw dolls, and all manner of gris gris are being rubbed to assure that you return to a copacetic state of being. I voted with the crowd. I think dialog is okay as a start as long as the character is wearing Depends.
Scott says
If it’s good, pulls me in, and is brief, I have no trouble with it.
The problem with beginning with dialog is, of course, that the reader has no clue who these people are. But if written skillfully, it can be a great hook.
One of my favorite books starts out:
***
“TOM!”
No answer.
“TOM!”
No answer.
“What’s gone with that boy, I wonder? You TOM!”
No answer.
The old lady pulled her spectacles down and looked over them about the room; then she put them up and looked out under them. She seldom or never looked through them for so small a thing as a boy; they were her state pair, the pride of her heart, and were built for “style,” not service — she could have seen through a pair of stove-lids just as well. She looked perplexed for a moment, and then said, not fiercely, but still loud enough for the furniture to hear:
“Well, I lay if I get hold of you I’ll — “
***
If that opening dialog went on any longer, it wouldn’t work. But we discover quickly that Tom is a boy, and is probably in trouble for something (instant hook), and then that the person calling him is an old lady, who the author draws pretty well with a brief description containing action.
Works for me.
(Disclaimer, I realize that using a 100-year-old-plus example has its dangers, but this one still feels modern to me.)
Other Lisa says
As with most things, it depends.
Feel better, Nathan – hope you can get some rest – rest is even better than chicken soup and vitamin C.
Ben says
JPod, by Douglas Coupland, is one of my favourite books. It begins like so:
—
“Oh God, I feel like a refugee from a Douglas Coupland novel.”
“That asshole.”
“Who does he think he is?”
“Come on, guys, focus. We’ve got a major problem on our hands.”
—
Really, when the book starts by insulting its author … you can’t put it down!
If a book begins with dialogue, it has to be good dialogue. But that goes the same for any beginning: it has to pull you in. Beyond that, I don’t see what the problem is with using dialogue to do that.
Maris Bosquet says
Red Stick! I hopped back on here to say pretty much what you said in that last sentence!
Now, who else among us was thinking it but was reluctant to say it???? 🙂
Jeanne says
Couldn’t think of the last time I read a book that began with dialogue, so I found a list of “One Hundred Best First Lines From Novels” on pantagraph.com
Of my six favorites, some began with dialogue and some didn’t. More didn’t. So, I guess it depends.
And- get well soon.
Jeanne says
https://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2006/02/04/news/doc43e3e6b004381080724526.txt
The List was by American Book Review. I checked it out just for fun.
David says
And the Depends have it!
Er, so to speak.
Yat-Yee says
You know that as soon as you give a third option that allows writers to explain themselves, it’s going to be picked, don’t you?
I don’t mind dialogue at the beginning as long as I know who’s speaking soon. A voice that doesn’t belong to a body can be disconcerting.
sex scenes at starbucks says
I prefer to start my novels with some sort of action. Doesn’t matter if that action is talking or something. I enjoy books which start with a general philosphical statement (It was the best of times, etc, suffices). But I suck at that so I fall back on action. It’d be nice if the dialoge had something to do with the overall theme/plot of the book, too, not just the inciting incident, but we can’t have it all.
I’m not hung up on first lines, either. I always give books a longer leash than that.
clindsay says
I signed Kelly Gay because the first page of her urban fantasy opened with clever dialogue. I was instantly hooked.
I love opening dialogue when it’s done well.
Chris says
Depends for me as well. It would seem to be a good way to plunge into a story. Catch them fast or lose them.
Charice says
Depends. Too melodramatic usually turns me off.
Mary Keenan says
I voted for, but it’s got to be ‘show’ dialogue rather than the ‘tell’ variety.
RED STICK WRITER says
Maris, your profile says your “nom be blog” consists of a combination of the Latin and French forms of the words that make up the name of your hometown. Red Stick Writer refers to my hometown, Baton Rouge. Of course, in its original French, it comes out Stick Red, but we forgive them since they invented pomme frites (French (AKA American)) fries.
The Depends thing reminds me of the Mardi Gras Krewe of Tuck. Friar Tuck’s is a bar near Tulane and Loyola in New Orleans. The Tuck parade started as a lark by college students but grew into a full-fledged krewe and parade. Members of the famous African-American Zulu krewe throw coconuts from their parade floats. Tuck members through Tuck’s hemorrhoid pads along with their dubloons and beads. Needless to say, Zulu has to pay bigger insurance premiums.
Marie says
Let’s hope colds aren’t contagious through the internet. I woke up with a scratchy voice, a sore throat and a cough. I hope you’re feeling better soon.
I like a little bit of description (but not a page or two of it) before a conversation begins. I don’t like entering the middle of a conversation, whether in real life or in a book.
abc says
I cringe. It feels overdone. But I could easily be swayed to get behind the book soon enough if the story is good. I’m mostly there for the escape anyway. If Michael Connelly wants to starts with dialogue then I’ll go with it.
It reminds me of beginning a movie with one of the characters giving a lecture (class, conference, whatever) on something that ties into the story. Ugh.
Sara Merrick says
Thanks, Scott — I was having a hard time remembering a book that starts with dialogue. The opening has to draw me in, whether it’s dialogue, action, setting, it has to be compelling writing. Feel better, Nathan.
Just_Me says
It all depends on the skill of the author and how the DL affects the story.
The Screaming Guppy says
While action from the start has its merits, I can’t say I’m against a well written opening with dialogue at the head.
Get well soon. 🙂
Suzan Harden says
It doesn’t matter how a book starts. It just needs to be freaking interesting.
And thanks, Scott, for naming one of my all-time favorite books that starts with dialogue.
Marilyn Peake says
I voted for Depends. (No, not that kind of Depends.) I think the dialogue has to be really strong to pull in the reader, though. I love when the setting or a character is vividly described first, but I also enjoy reading great novels that start with dialogue. I’m reading Ender’s Game by Orson Scott Card right now. I was pulled in from the very first sentence, and it starts with dialogue.
Hope you feel better soon, Nathan.
cc says
I vote for Loathe. How can you care who is saying what when you don’t know who they are?
(Hope you feel better, Nathan.)
Steve Axelrod says
Iris Murdoch did it all the time. Check out the insane shouting match — culminating with an awful car crash — that gets The Philosopher’s Pupil off to a spectacular start.
Christine says
I seem to have done it with the first three books in my series. Didn’t plan it that way, but now that it’s become a pattern, I think I’ll try to come up with clever ways to do it for the remaining two books. My first two books, not in the current series, began with narrative. I’m flexible, as long as it works.
However, in each case the dialogue I used was extrememly short and provocative, thereby drawing the reader in immediately. (the first line of Book Two is “Ow”.) By beginning in the middle of an argument, for example, it’s dialogue AND action, after a fashion.
I don’t go in for long descriptive passages that go nowhere as beginnings, but well-done, either dialogue or narrative is fine.
Not The Rockefellers says
“Is it starve a cold and feed a fever or the other way around?”, Nathan wondered aloud.
Get Well Soon!
Peace – Rene
Kimber An says
I voted ‘Depends’ and I’m not talking about the undergarments. I think the story should start the instant the primary protagonist takes the first step which propels her or him towards the inevitable conclusion. Sometimes that involves dialogue and sometimes not. Sometimes it’s easy to find that instant. Most of the time, at least for me, it takes a lot of work!
Pamala Knight says
I voted ‘depends’ because I would want to give the book a chance to hook me by whatever means necessary. I certainly wouldn’t stop reading simply because the book opened with dialogue.
Sue says
I’m really good at writing witty dialogue so if I’m writing it yes. Now OTHER people? WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY.
(Yes, I’m kidding.)
John Quirk says
We were talking about this last week on a forum I hang around, and the general consensus – including from the resident agent and publisher – is that dialogue to open a novel is a big no-no (albeit with the caveat that knockout dialogue can always sway them…)
The general train of thought is that you can’t open up with someone saying something because the reader has no immediate affinity to the particular character, so there’s no hook.
My own view is that, as a reader and writer, I don’t mind – sometimes it does work, sometimes it stinks.
Will be interested to hear Nathan’s thoughts.