One of the very most difficult parts about the writing process is knowing whether you have “it,” as in the talent that it takes in order to have a book published.
This is one the biggest challenge in battling the “Am I Crazies.” How in the heck do you know if what you’re writing is actually good?
Sure, your friends and family might think you have a talent, there may have been a teacher who was supportive, but they’re often biased. So how do you really know?
I know there are writers out there who would stop now if they knew for sure they’d never find publication. But should they? How can you tell?
Greg says
"If you wrote something for which someone sent you a check, if you cashed the check and it didn't bounce, and if you then paid the light bill with the money, I consider you talented." — Stephen King
"Talent is cheaper than table salt. What separates the talented individual from the successful one is a lot of hard work." — Stephen King
"Some critics will write: 'Maya Angelou is a natural writer' — which is right after being a natural heart surgeon." — Maya Angelou
And yet, I think you're right, Nathan. Some people can write. Most people can't. And thousands delude themselves that they can. If you write something that is really good, and persist, it will get published. The trick is writing something that is really good.
Anna L. Walls says
For years, I wrote because it was the next best thing to reading. Now that I've published one of my stories, I've (so far) received nothing but 5-star reviews. I've never really thought my writing was all that great – perhaps a certain degree of humiliation, with regard to one's own work, is one way of telling whether 'it' is really there. Then again, I've always been my own worst critic.
lora96 says
I think if you have the drive to write, the desire to say something, and it is strong enough motivation to write in the fact of NEVER being published, then–talent or not—you'll keep writing and keep improving.
We are our own worst critics, and that kind of self-reflection is bound to have generative scope.
Robyn Campbell says
Nathan, I write because I breathe! And I write to tell my stories. So that Picture book audiences, MG and YA too will be able to read them. And it is so much fun!! 🙂
sharonedge says
How can one ever be sure?
I can be a master of wordcraft and still not be a good novelist, I think. But I write, and that makes me a writer.
Beth says
I'm tempted to say that if you'd stop writing if you knew you'd never get published, you're missing something just as important (maybe more) than talent: passion.
I've been writing stories since first grade, and passed them around to friends, teachers, etc. I enjoyed their feedback, but it never impacted whether or not I wrote. And I figured I'd always "be" a writer, whether I ever sought publication or not.
It is only now, at age 40, that I feel like something I've written is worth publication. I am confident in my talent for two reasons: one, I have had it confirmed throughout my life by those with nothing vested either way, and two, I am a voracious reader– I know cr@p when I read it, even when I wrote it.
But I can't help but feel that if your desire to write is contingent on what others think (or anything else), it might never be important enough to you to put up with the frequent rejection and discouragement inherent in a writer's life.
pjblair says
Susan Quinn,
You think the odds of getting published are better than playing in the NBA? Gosh, I don't think so.
Nathan probably gets 200 queries a week. That works out to 10,400. Of those, he might represent, what, six? seven? That's around 0.0005 success rate. And we haven't got you published yet.
If 10,394 of the 10,400 people who applied for a job knew they were going to be rejected, would you waste your time?
That's why I'm saying I would want honest feedback, not the diplomatic "spare your feelings" rejections that might make for less of a sting but don't let a person make adult, informed decisions.
Don't tell me I'm talented. Tell me that the kind of book I've written is highly unlikely to find a market or that I shouldn't give up my day job.
If I hear it enough, sure, it will hurt, but that's how I'll know.
jkinkade says
Wow. I ask myself this question every day. I've had so many people tell me that my story is great, that they want to read more, and that my writing is so good and my characters are so engaging, blah blah. But I can't write a good query letter to save my life. Does that mean I don't have talent? In part, yeah. I can tell a good story, but I have no talent in writing a great query letter (ah, the clincher). Will that stop me? No. I'll self publish and the proof will be in the pudding. If my book is as good as people tell me it is, then it will sell. If not, so what? As long as a handful of people love it, I'm good with that. And if someone really likes it–is moved by it–? Well, it's all good. And it's the result of talent.
Dawn Simon says
I think an unpublished writer is doing something right if rejection letters start getting better (with recommendations to colleagues or offers to look at future work), page requests begin to trickle in, or experts in the field validate the person's skills in some other way. It's a tough business and we have to embrace the positives that come our way, large and small. Also, if we see improvement in our own writing or a critique partner's writing, it's worth celebrating.
If the writing is making a person feel down too much or making someone truly neglect his or her family, it's not a good thing whether the person is talented or not.
Beyond that, I don't know. Talent is subjective at a certain point, and you have to figure in the happiness factor while deciding whether to continue or not.
Christina Kopp says
Nathan wrote at 2:03 (ish): There's a common sentiment in this thread that anyone can be a published writer if they just put their minds to it. I'm afraid I just don't believe that's true.
Could that have something to do with the fact that you're an agent with a publishing contract of your own and we're all aspiring authors? 🙂
Claiming that practice and hard work are at the root of this issue is not the same thing as saying that "anyone can be a published writer if they just put their minds to it."
Success in most any field requires talent, persistence/hard work, and some degree of luck.
Most of the writers here are focusing on the only thing we can focus on: the work/persistence aspect. There is no objective way for a writer to gauge talent unless you consider talent the ability to sell and/or the ability to receive praise from critics (and you might define talent as such, but writers who are still in the early stages of the process aren't in any position to use those metrics).
So, if you can't objectively gauge talent, the best way to figure out if you should keep writing or not is to figure out if you can do the work and put up with whatever rewards (or lack thereof) come about as a result.
I can see why this answer might not work for you; you have to read queries and submissions that you might feel are a waste of your time (though I'm sure you wouldn't be so rude as to put it like that).
But asking this question to a bunch of aspiring writers, who have no control over their level of talent and who can only control the amount of effort they put into learning the craft – did you really expect the common sentiment to be anything else but a profession of faith in hard work and persistence?
Malia Sutton says
It's all good.
Anonymous says
According to Dan Poytner of Parapublishing there are some six million book manuscripts in the pipeline at any given moment. Roughly the same number in composition, or pipe dream stage. And roughly half that number in print. 24 million U.S. adults consider themselves creative writers, less than 5% have ever been published anywhere, fewer than 8,000 earn a living from novel writing, average $30,000 annual income.
According to Ridley Pearson, out of 5,000 novels published per year, 200 are by first time novelists. The number of novels published annually is closer to 8,000, though.
Michael Larson, 80% of books published by major publishers come through agents.
Arguably, there's some kind of a talent at every level–writers, agents, screeners, gatekeepers, editors, publishers, booksellers, readers–driving the marketplace.
holly says
i do not know if i have "it" but everyone tells me i write well, so i guess it comes naturally
Anonymous says
There are more people writing books than playing basketball?
Umm, I love you man, but i REALLY don't think so.
The number of pusblished authors vs the number of people who write casually cannot POSSIBLY be a worse ratio than the number of NBA players vs the number of people who shoot hoops casually.
Now you might say the number of folks playing ball that wish they were in the NBA vs the number of folks writing crime mysteries that want a contract from Random House is such and such, but they you get into quantifying who has a 'realistic' expectation and who doesn't. If you want to disqualify the folks who scribble out little stories in diaries and personal journals and also disqualify everyone in the neighborhood who plays pickup games on Sunday afternoon, fine, but you have to begin and end somewhere.
I just don't think it is so easy.
If you say the NFL – for example – as 32 55 man rosters, that's ~ 1500 people in the NFL vs EVERYONE in the USA who plays football at any level. My High School of 400 kids had a 50 man football team. Were 50 folks writing books too?
My college of 10,000 had a ~ 50 man football team. Maybe 50 really were writing books (hell I was!).
I dunno, just seems like it might not be the best barometer.
I think the answer is that 'good' is subjective. It is a matter of taste and taste is pretty hard to quantify. If we paint in very broad strokes, we can disqualify a writer as having no grasp of grammar, or punctuation, or pacing or plot or structure. When you narrow it down, where does one draw the line between inadequate ability and 'not my cup o' joe'?
Wickerman
(can't log in for some reason!)
Lee Ann Sontheimer Murphy says
How can I tell I have talent? More than two decades of publication credits, awards, kudos, and comments.
kalincasey says
Some days I do wonder. I think that if you are unpublished, you just can't be sure. And I am pretty certain that even if I do become a published author someday, I will always doubt any project in some way that hasn't been vetted and validated.
On the one hand, your beta readers' positive comments can be a boost, but often there are opposing viewpoints that can be confusing, as well. I think that you have to look beyond your usual back-patting circle at readers who can say without personal ties to you that your work is good. But even then, it's all so subjective. And being talented doesn't mean you're going to be published, either.
An example that sticks with me is this:
One of my beta readers is a complete stranger for whom my novel just didn't work. She had several overarching criticisms that clearly indicated that she thought the book was problematic and not for her. Yet she still said, "You are a great writer" and "It's going to be a great book." So, even though she found much to critique, I did feel some confirmation of talent there. That's something.
Best beta-reader quote ever about my work: "I enjoyed it more than The Road." I could have kissed her for that, and we all know how great The Road is. I mean it's all so subjective, the reader's taste. I still recite that one to myself on and days when I'm feeling untalented and need a laugh.
Just Me says
I think it is a matter of valuing "being" over "doing"…I made my critique group laugh in my face (online…)when I wrote, "I write to have it exist whether or not the piece(s) ever gets published." It's like the basket weaver that Kathleen Norris writes about; at the end of every day he destroys his creations because he is not able to travel far enough to the market to sell them. We don't need to torture possible agents with our attempts at "doing". I am a strange idealist (optimist? ______?) that believes that "if it is meant to be…" it will find a way somehow, through an agent or otherways.
M.B. Sandefur says
I don't know about everyone else but I am on a website AgentQuery.com. I'm not looking for an agent right now, but there are forums in which you can post some of your manuscript and receive honest feedback from other people. It's a great tool to know where you are, in terms of writing ability. I believe that anyone can be a good storyteller, but being a WRITER is a different story…
Anonymous says
Just to follow up the above poster in regards to stats.
If 6 million books are int he 'system' and 6 million are in the dream stage that's 12 million.
With 300 million people in the US, that's 1:25 ratio of 'prospects' to people.
HOWEVER. That is assuming that all 12 million books are by 12 million DIFFERENT people. Highly unlikely.
By the same reckoning, the 6 million books in print would seem to indicate 6 million published writers or 1:50 ratio.
Again, not so. Hell, Robert Jordan wrote enough to make up for the state of Rhode Island.
If we are to pick a number and say the average published writer has 5 books in print (and it makes my math simple) then the 1:50 ratio becomes 1:250. That means one out of every 250 people in America have had a book published (keep in mind this doesn't count dead people who still have books in print.)
SOOOO let's say dead people are 3/4 of the books. That means you have 1 of every 1000 people in America has a book in print. If half the books in print in America are by people living outside the USA, that's 1 in 2000.
Now the NFL. 1500 players divided by the 300 million folks in the country. STOP. No women allowed. Let's assume a 50/50 split. 1500 out of 150 million. That's 1 out of every 400,000 people get to play in the NFL.
If your head hurts now, just keep writing and give up on pro sports…
Wickerman – the guy who STILL can't log in
wendy says
I think everyone here whose posts I've read has talent and prob. have years of work behind them via courses and/or the practical.
The news stories I wrote for a large local paper were liked by the editor and a few were featured. I much prefer to write fantasy and leave the country, so to speak.
Some of my more fundamental Christian friends don't like what I write because of the fantasy subject matter. But I've received awards for some of those stories, been a runner up in a writng contest and had positive reviews from online reviewers for both published and non-published work. Laughably, in one review for my unpublished vampire romance, dated 2004, the reviewer comented, 'It was very unique and creative.'
karen alexander says
"Those that Don't got it, can't show it. Those that got it, can't hide it." Zora Neale Hurston
You know. When you got it, you know it.
As far the basketball metaphors, well, they know, too. Every great player knows they've got skills from the get go.
That's what keeps them going through all the rigorous training and honing of their skills. They know it in the first place.
Fat Eddie says
what a depressing post
David Ferretti III says
This looks like a double edged question. Either I do have talent or I am a failure and should never give up my day job. If I have talent others will tell me. Hopefully the others will include agents, publishers and peers. How do I earn the coveted title of ‘you have talent?’
Perseverance in my chosen field (writing) shows my determined commitment to produce the best writing I am capable of. Passion about my project shows others my intense feelings toward my manuscript. Willingness to learn and listen to others, on the art of writing, exposes my weaknesses, thus improving my knowledge of crafting a good novel worthy of publication. If talent boils down to ‘I will never give up until I am published,’ which implies my perseverance, passion, willingness and commitment, then, I have writer’s talent.
macaronipants says
I have to disagree with you Nathan. A first! I started writing fourteen years ago and if you'd read that first story/picture book/whatever-it-was, you definitely would have slotted me right into that never-to-be-a-writer category (along with the 45 other agents I queried – I know, I know, I was one of THEM). I gave up for awhile, believing that first attempt was all I was capable of. But then I started taking classes and educated myself about the business and tried again. I wrote a novel. And it was poo.
I think what makes a good writer is equal parts recognizing what is good in their writing and what is poo. And more important, not going into denial over the poo. I think this is what happened for me after story #2.
Am I talented? I don't know. I've worked really hard for a long time. This book I'm working on now has been requested by the editors who have read it in critique and it won a pretty big WIP award. I'm about ready to submit, so there's no end to this story. But I suppose that's my point. I think if you can track progress in your writing, then you're going somewhere.
Christine H says
You have talent if you truly, deeply move people. If you are honest with yourself, you can tell the difference between a politely positive review (even from a friend or relative) and a meaningful one.
I knew I was talented in second grade, when my teacher refused to let me keep the story I wrote in her class. She was so impressed, she wanted to keep it as a memento. I finally weaseled it out of her in 8th grade, before I graduated.
I knew it in fourth grade when a teacher I didn't even know told me how moved she was by some poems I had written. She actually had tears in her eyes. I was so shocked I didn't know what to say.
I knew I was talented when a college student I barely know volunteered to read a few chapters for me last May, and was in total raptures, wanting more.
I know I have talent. It's the craftsmanship I'm worried about.
I don't really expect to be published. But I feel I owe it to myself to try. At the very least, I need to try to raise the quality of my writing to that level.
Demon Hunter says
I think if you're a writer, you're going to write regardless, but if someone pays you to write, it's a wonderful confirmation. 🙂
I don't have any novels published, but I did receive professional pay for a short and that definitely built my writing confidence. So, it just depends on the individual goals, perhaps? 😀
mirlacca says
I'm firmly convinced that the drive to write is related to a brain chemistry imbalance which, in its extreme form, is called hypergraphia. People with this imbalance will cover walls with dissertations written in their own blood if they don't have anything else to write with. So the drive to write, I think, isn't necessarily related to talent at all.
Some of what we call "talent" is a function of market expectations (see Roth, Phillip, writing vs. entertainment). I think that is a function of the market because writing talent simply means how well you can tell a story in writing, and the kinds of stories and the styles in which they're told evolve with the audience, and change over time.
So "How can you tell if you have writing talent?"
By whether or not people want to read your stories. In one sense, yes, trashy bestseller writers ARE more talented. Imagine what they'd sell if they were better at the language part of the game!
Does that require publication? Not in this day and age, it doesn't. Not with blogs and self-publishers and all the venues available today.
MedleyMisty says
One of my readers (who I don't know and have no interaction with beyond thanking her for comments) just posted that her daughter is having a sleepover on Halloween and she's going to gather all of her friends around the computer and they're going to read my story.
I've never been motivated by money or how current mainstream American society defines success so yeah – being published one day would be nice but it's not my measuring stick of choice.
I think that maybe my measuring stick is the comments from random strangers on the internet. That and my own internal senses.
As for having the talent that it takes to get published – I don't know. I'll cross that bridge when/if I get there. For now, I appear to have the talent it takes to please around a thousand people on the internet. For now, that's good enough.
Momzilla says
I have to have talent to be a writer?
Crap…
*wanders off muttering, "Now what am I going to do with the rest of my life?"
Susan Quinn says
Just because I love the numbers . . .
23,000 High Schools x 15 team members = 345,000 high school basketball players
60 get into the NBA for a 0.00017 success rate
So, already the basketball stars have less chance of getting into the NBA than Nathan's acceptance rate of manuscripts at 0.0005 (thank you pjblair!).
In other words, for every 10,000 players/manuscripts, Nathan accepts 6, but the NBA only accepts 1.7.
Still, in the ballpark, right?
Not really.
Because Nathan (including the clone he keeps in the closet) is not the only agent. If I submit my manuscript to Nathan and he rejects it (the odds of which are going up the longer I type here), I can still submit to other agents. Not everyone submits their manuscripts to Nathan (although it may seem like it, looking at his slush pile day after day), but with hundreds of agents out there, and thousands more manuscripts submitted to them, the odds get even better.
Those adorable basketball players only get one shot.
I can submit more than one manuscript! In fact, I can keep trying, over and over, year after year, depending on how dementedly determined I am. In fact, that seems to be the only path to success in this business.
Are the odds still against you, the writer? Sure. And everyone thinks they're going to be one of the 10 or 20 in 10,000 that get published. Just like those sweaty high school teens that hit the court every day, dreaming the dream.
But if you ask them, they'll say they do it because the love the game.
Which, I think, is the only way you can tell if you have any writing talent – you love it.
Anonymous says
Daisy said:
"people don't lie with money."
I don't agree with this statement as it pertains to the topic at hand.
Someone had to lie to — insert high profile celebrity name here–when they told him/her that they are wonderful writers.
Their high profile sell books, that's why they get the big contracts. It's not sour grapes talking, it's a fact.
Someone must have lied to — insert name of NY best selling burnt out author here — when they told him/her their next books was awesome. We've all read them. Big selling authors who cannot write enticing characters, plausible plots or just a real good story.
I don't think anyone has the right to tell another person to quit writing or chasing their passion.
To answer Nathan's initial question, you just never know, because what is talent to one person maybe be jibberish to another person. This craft is so subjective it's painful. Painful because so many wonderful books go unpublished, and so much garbage is being published.
Lucinda says
"How can you tell if you have writing talent?"
Show, not tell.
One part talent, one part skill, and 98 parts hard work and dedication to accomplishing a goal.
wordver: readowne (read own e) Sounds like a new name for a e-book.
Anonymous says
Luck has a lot to do with getting published as well. I know published authors don't like to admit this, but I believe it to be true.
I also believe knowing people in the industry, and networking with the right people helps a lot. Again, a lot of authors don't want to admit this, but I believe this to be true.
Adam Heine says
I don't believe in talent, not in this sense. If you work hard enough at something, you can do it.
I don't know if that means everyone can get published, since there are more factors than one's skill, but it does mean that anyone can learn to write publishable quality if they put in the work.
There's more on why I dislike "talent" here.
CommonSenseWriter says
Nathan said: "There's a common sentiment in this thread that anyone can be a published writer if they just put their minds to it. I'm afraid I just don't believe that's true."
I agree. Everybody can learn the mechanics of writing and become better over time. But not everyone has that something-something that makes their ideas pop and their writing sing.
pjblair says
Hmmmm….
Does an aspiring NBA player actually have a better chance than an aspiring author? Now, I'm intrigued.
My .0005 figure was just your chances of getting Nathan as an agent. I'm sure he'll tell you that not every book he represents gets published; in fact, I'd guess it's the same kind of percentage for the numbers of books sent to publishers that actually get published.
Nathan is a good agent, too: the percentages may be quite different (lower) with others who may not be as successful.
Plus, I don't think that every kid playing basketball on the school team hopes or expects to play in the NBA, but everyone who sends in a query letter has hopes of getting represented and published.
(Btw,I might ask all of you who have said you only write for personal pleasure, and don't care if you are ever published) why it is that you are posting on a literary agent's blog???)
Donna Hole says
A deeply personal question, and one I have yet to find my own answer to.
…….dhole
pjblair says
I love Yahoo Questions and Answers. "Since the US population is 298,201,327, even if we assume that 20% of the population is under 20, that leaves 59,640,265.[If]one percent of those people are even capable of playing ball, you have 596,403 candidates. Then assume one percent of that population plays ball well: 5,964. Then, assuming 30 NBA teams with a roster of 15 players per team: 450 players."
450 of 5,964 candidates who play basketball well (as opposed to, at all) is analogous to the 6 out of 10,400 who don't just write, but actually query. The result? .075 per cent success for aspiring basketballs players in the NBA compared to .0005 per cent for aspiring authors of finding an agent.
I like the odds of playing in the NBA way better than of getting an agent by querying by a factor of more than ten.
Eric Christopherson says
If you can't find the skill hiding in the lack of skill in the Da Vinci Code–even if you write lit fic–then you ain't got it. If you think every other author at your online writers site ought to be published then you ain't got it. If you give up, then you never had it.
Author Guy says
I'm not sure I understand the last comment of your post. Since when does getting published equate to having talent? Lots of published authors have as their greatest talent self-promotion and the ability to write good query letters. I would imagine the most talented wouldn't get published simply because they're so original their works doesn't have a metric to judge it by.
rachelcapps says
Entering writing contests.
I've only found the time to enter two writing contests, so far. The second contest I entered I won the Encouragement Award (there was 1 winner and the Encouragement Award). I was encouraged! There is hope.
Laurel says
Let's say talent is made up of three parts: relevance, storytelling ability and eloquence. If we write relevant work today, we get published. If we write work that would be relevant two or three decades after we die, it may not get published.
Storytelling ability and eloquence may be what people usually mean when they talk about talent. But I think these kinds of talents have been covered in Matthew 25:14-30; Luke 19:12-28. There will always be someone with more talent and someone with less talent. All we can do is use whatever we were given, right?
sex scenes at starbucks says
I ask people who don't lie to me. When they get irritated that I'm whining about being a no-talent hack, I know I must have it.
Kaitlyne says
I have less talent than many of the friends I've had over the years, but I also have more patience and drive to improve than many of them. My friends might be able to put out a better first draft, but get bored and never revise them. I work hard to improve my work constantly.
I've always felt that while talent is a good springboard, it takes more than talent alone to get anywhere, and similarly that a person can have very little talent but learn to become a master of a craft.
Even if I knew I would never be published, I'd continue to write just because I love writing. I actually think that if someone told me I was hopeless, I would (after the initial crying session) probably say, "Wanna bet?" and work even harder.
I think the hard work is the most important part of the formula. Not everyone will be published, but if you work hard and are willing to put the effort into what it takes to even have a chance, you're far ahead of the game.
Ink says
That's one thoroughly analyzed analogy. Who wants to give me the odds of playing in the NBA and publishing a novel?
Violet Ingram says
Late to the party. I belong to a critique group. We meet twice a month and are quite honest in our critiques of everyone's work.
I struggle w/ the do I have "it". You can keep learning, keep improving, keep writing, but maybe you just don't have what it takes.
Even if I knew I would never be published, I wouldn't quit writing. I love it and it gives me an enormous amount of pleasure.
Nancy Coffelt says
Holy cow. I saw 249 comments and scanned a few before running scared.
I get the "I wish I was talented" litany from time to time from adults when I do author visits at schools.
Here's my response.
Interest + practice = mastery, which is perceived by most as talent.
Absolutely no one wants to hear this.
Sounds too much like diet + exercise + weight loss, I guess…
Nancy Coffelt says
Oops! Meant diet = exercise EQUALS weight loss.
Epic fail…
Anonymous says
No time to read whole thread but whenever this "talent" question comes up, I'm thinking "what talent are you talking about?"
There's talent for the poetics of writing.
There's talent for the story-telling of writing.
There's talent (and it is a talent) to know what story to write that people want to read.
There's talent to network and calculate the angles.
There's a talent to ignore the hurts and persevere.
AM says
Wow. This topic should help cull out the timid from the brazen.8^)