As e-book adoption steadily increases, I think writers and artists have a very good reason to wonder if easily pirated e-books are going to do to the publishing industry what Napster did to the record industry. With news that Dan Brown’s last novel was pirated within hours of being released and with e-reader adoption growing steadily, it’s a serious concern.
I know there are lots of bitter types out there who would love nothing more than to stomp on the grave of publishers, but if they fall it’s going to have a profound effect on the quality of books.
Now… There will always be books. Publishers or no publishers, agents or no agents, paid authors or no paid authors, people are going to write, and some will write very well no matter what. But I think the overall quality of books would suffer tremendously if very few people can make any money doing it. Not only because there wouldn’t be publishers to edit and copyedit and market, but the fewer people who can make any money or spend any time writing books because they have no hope of getting paid will result in lesser the competition and lesser the choice and lesser the quality.
This isn’t the music industry – no one is making money on an author tours or Ian McEwan t-shirt sales no matter how many I personally would buy.
But!
Lately something has happened that made me wonder if perhaps my worries about piracy might be somewhat overblown.
There’s a site that I’m not going to link to or name because I don’t want to give them any traffic at all. Let’s call them FakeTorrent. FakeTorrent is a site that purports to contain all sorts of pirated material, including books, that you can download very easily and holy cow thousands of people have already done it. All you have to do is install the right software.
And, of course, the software is a virus. Or they’re phishing for credit cards. Or some other nefarious activity. I didn’t stick around long enough to find out. But! There’s nothing being pirated. Essentially: they’re scamming pirates.
Could this be the future? Since pirates are already downloading files from dubious sites, is lacing a highly sought-after file with a virus or ads or scams a sufficient growth industry to actually deter piracy?
Now… don’t get me wrong. I’m not some starry-eyed Pollyanna who thinks piracy is going to go away entirely.
But I also have been around the Internet long enough to know the life cycle of user-generated websites, whether they be eBay, Friendster, Myspace, Craigslist, or a file sharing site. First the early adopters come along and everything works great. Very exciting! Then comes mass adoption, which strains the site’s capacity to keep everything running smoothly. And then, inevitably, come the spammers and scammers to ruin it for everyone. Once they arrive, using the site becomes tremendously annoying.
The only user-generated sites that have had any longevity at all are ones that have successfully kept the spammers and scammers at bay. And it takes an incredible amount of resources and ingenuity to stay ahead of them and sort them out from the regular users. (Twitter is on the cusp of the spammer/scammer wave, incidentally, and it will be interesting to see how well they handle it.)
I wonder if we’re going to see a similar life cycle in Internet piracy. Any piracy site or sharer that has built sufficient users and resources to ensure quality control will also (hopefully) be a big enough target that it can be taken down by lawsuits (see, incidentally, the Scribd lawsuit over its laissez faire policy regarding the uploading of possibly copyrighted material). There’s also, I think, a significant business opportunity for companies that specialize in reducing or eliminating piracy.
Obviously someone that is truly motivated will find a way, and pirates may adapt to new challenges and barriers. But I wonder whether mass piracy is really in our future.
Essentially: my hope is that pirating material will be a sufficient pain in the ass that people will just go ahead and buy through trusted and legal sites that can guarantee quality control. Maybe that’s overly optimistic, but you can bet I’m counting my lucky stars as an agent and author that e-books weren’t all the rage in the year 2000 when many of us had vastly underdeveloped Internet consciences.
What do you think? How big of a threat is piracy? Should I be worried?
"I would much rather that kids in Baton Rouge have access to the world of books than another preppy Ivy grad because diversity is great for art, but in the free world that you're talking about I don't know that that's the way it's going to work."
The kids will always have access to the written word. Will they want it? Maybe. Does it have to be a book? Probably not.
I don't pay to read blogs. There's a lot of great writing out there that isn't tied to the mainstream publishing industry.
If you write to earn money and you can't paid … maybe the future looks bleak. You may have to write for free… or not write at all.
Either way, it won't throw the world off its axis.
Let's talk stealin' big time…
Google, Matt Taibbi Goldman Sachs
Please read all seven installments of THE GREAT AMERICAN BUBBLE MACHINE!
Haste yee back 😉
anon-
I agree to a certain extent and said in my post that the world of books would go on, but books won't be around in the same quality or quantity, and I think that would be a shame. The end of the world? No, but what we have is important enough to guard against with a great deal of energy and attention. Luckily I think all will end up being fine.
Well if you want to get right down to the economics it. Downloading a pirated copy of an ebook makes much more economic sense for the reader.
The chance of getting caught pale to the economic windfall of stealing it. It is really just simple math.
Either make it impossible to steal or make it easier to catch those that do it.
Until that is done, don't count on the goodness in people's hearts to do what is right…because what is economically right for them, is to get it at the smallest possible cost.
AIC, thanks. Feel free to help yourself to my ebook 🙂 (It's on the link). Seriously, I know I acn afford to say this because I'm a newbie and I don't have a huge following, but I hope if I ever do make it, I will say exactly the same – people have my position to bring my words back to haunt me should I ever "turn gamekeeper"
Anonymous @ 2:37, here's what you don't get. It's not my job to create a solution, and it's not like I said it would ever be easy or succinct. I can't begin to understand the root of the problems in the publishing industry and therefore can't come up with realistic ways to address them. This needs everyone involved to start thinking about radical ways to resuscitate the industry.
Nathan mentioned that publishers have been preparing for eBooks for 10 years by developing technology, but they've only been moving towards technological inevitabilities rather than making real changes that will affect their ability to continue to make money.
I'm an unpublished writer. It's a pretty scary place to be right now, so I'm keeping an eye on what it takes to make it work in this business. Only time will tell if I become successful or not, but you can be damn sure I'm not going to move forward with the mentality that piracy is wrong and good will triumph over evil! No way, no how. I'm going to take advantage of every edge that I can and make current buying and usage trends work for me whenever possible.
I have plans to meet a friend for a movie (at the theatre… where I'll be paying $12) in a few minutes, so I'm going to have to end my input here.
"You're the person who cuts in line, the person who cuts people off in traffic, the person who wants a free ride while others pay. I get it."
This laughable assumption is exactly what makes you the person least likely to instigate truly successful change.
Can someone who actually thinks outside the box please stand up and take the floor? Nathan, you may as well take a seat back in your rut. You're just hindering us in finding a solution to the problem.
We download, but we are authors too. Do you think we aren't trying to address the piracy issue? We're on your site … commenting with failed explanation. Please tune in.
Dan: I already have your book "bookmarked" for future reading.
anon@2:52-
Some people are actually swayed by the morality of the situation. But for those who strictly want to look at it from a cost/benefit standpoint, yeah, I agree that it comes down economics for these people, which is why I hope that it will be a sufficient pain in the ass to pirate that it will be more productive to spend their time elsewhere. How much money is it worth for someone to search for hours for something vs. just buying it legally?
Like I said, I don't think you'll be able to eliminate in entirely, but make it difficult enough vs. the ease of just paying and I think it will be enough to discourage mass piracy. Some more scammers scamming the pirates wouldn't hurt either.
But don't knock the moral argument. The more people who understand that this is theft, the smaller the number of people who will be tempted to pirate.
Joe Konrath has had a few blog posts on what he considers the future of e-books, and his thoughts on the "piracy threat"…good reading if you get the chance.
Start here and then continue here
anon-
That was a metaphor, actually, mimicking anon@2:28's everyman declaration: "I play basketball with you, I share the same interest in film, we grew up together at school, etc. etc."
But hey, if being opposed to piracy makes me a Luddite I'll proudly start complaining about the damn kids on my lawn.
Dan –
I was once a working class kid, but in this free, capitalistic society I was given the opportunity to advance myself. Now I might be considered to be one of those elite you talk about. You sound like you are more about the repression of others.
"There's still a huge amount of social exclusion on a global level, as I've argued elsewhere, but now it's at least possible for at least some of these to reach readers directly and reap the rewards."
I am now certain this is no longer about the publishing industry and has become about politics.
"but I hope if I ever do make it, I will say exactly the same – people have my position to bring my words back to haunt me should I ever "turn gamekeeper"
Recommendation: Stop using your name (if it is your real name) in polarized discussions. If you are as young as I suspect you are, then I am certain your views will change.
Besides, there are some really creepy guys lurking around – you may even be playing basketball with them.
@ Marilyn – no, not at present (I'm deliberately avoiding using the music indsutry for examples). I AM, from Sep 1, running a monthly audit and publishing all my figures and findings, so people can see if I'm basing my arguments on rubbish (https://agnieszkasshoes.blogspot.com/2009/09/hold-me-to-account-success-or-failure.html) I would say that I'm talking about previously unpublished writers – but not people without a following. I think you need to build a following first.
On torrent sites – I don't see these as the way forward in themselves – I see them as the back-office on which highly sophisticated front portals will be built that are run by passionate readers searching out and recommending the best free content within highly refined genres.
@Nathan – I guess only time will tell which of us is right about who will be able to write in a "free" culture. I used to agree with you, but since I got involved with people in the music industry, I changed my mind. People who argue that "paying only" means democratisation have a prima facie case but miss the many hidden exclusion factors – people from poor backgrounds are less likely to have access to the means to ehlp them prepare a great pitch letter, and so on. And I just don't buy the idea that because people get something for free they won't pay for a premium version if they love it. I don't expect to make vast amounts of money, but I'm with Kevin Kelly that 1,000 true fans who will pay are enough. Like I say I may be proven wrong. I've always said I'm happy to put any of my predictions up for a 10 year review.
Thsi is a great thread – tahnk you Nathan. I'm in the UK so it's bedtime but I'll be back tomorrow to read with interest
anon@3:10-
I feel that that mischaracterizes AIC's argument, and per my "stricter on anons" policy I deleted the comment.
If all that is of value in a book is the words in it – then piracy is a big problem – because it is easy to pirate words.
My theory is that artworks are rarely pirated because a print out of a picture or poster isn't as aesthetically pleasing or satisfying as the 'real' thing.
So the answer maybe lies in making a book more than just about the words in it.
The book needs to become an object of desire in itself as a whole unit – one part of which is the words contained within it.
I am trying to make my series of poetry books (there will be 7 and the first one just arrived today for me to proof it) something fun to own and enjoy even if a person never even read the content 🙂
I hope they will read the content and the fun design aesthetic will be the side bonus rather than the main impetus – but the whole thing will matter.
I'm going to issue embossed certificates of authenticity as well – like the Cabbage Patch Dolls had birth certificates LOL
Buying a book should be a burst of excitement and happy ownership – if that can be added into the purchasing equation to make the buying a satisfying experience then maybe pirating will become lacklustre in comparison.
Oh and my books are all going to be less than nine dollars for a paperback too.
Nathan – Fair enough. His comment on his profile may have me misinterpreting his attitude.
I don't know that you misinterpreted his attitude, actually, just trying to keep things even. Thanks for understanding anon.
Nathan, back to piracy causing loss in sales again:
You first said that the music industry has been on a steady decline since 1999, which you attribute to Napster and other file-sharing sites.
But you're also pointing to studies suggesting that piracy is down. If piracy is really responsible for the music industry's troubles, shouldn't the decrease in piracy be paired with a corresponding increase in music sales?
I don't mean to stand here and say "I think it's ok for people to steal money out of writers' wallets." I pay for my books. The ones I don't pay for, I check out of the library. I got over downloading music without paying for it around the same time I got over boy bands (eighth grade).
But as a writer, I sincerely hope that the publishing industry chooses to work smarter instead of harder when it comes to facing the challenges of changing technology. The industry can invest significant time and energy in a pointless battle against filesharing, or they can invest time and energy into turning new technologies to their advantage to make buying books more appealing to more people.
iTunes did that when it figured out what people loved most about Napster (instant a la cart access) and monetized it. E-readers are taking advantage of cloud computing (which, for the record, is possible without restrictive DRM) to offer people yet another value add over print books. And while you may not agree with Corey Doctorow's specific method, it's hard to argue with his point that the biggest thing standing between a writer and more sales isn't piracy, but obscurity. You've discussed on your blog some of the myriad ways authors are leveraging the internet to get their books out there–if the industry is smart, it will start looking for more.
There comes a point where rolling the boulder around the mountain is more efficient than trying to push it up the mountain. I think the statistics indicate that we're well past that point with filesharing.
I'm just going to dive right in even though I'm so new to the computer and to the business of publishing our first novel that I hardly care about pirate books. Allan Ginsburg once told me that authors make about 8-10 grand a year and that you've got to teach to stay alive. I have no academic hookup except when they pay me for readings so I guess I have to hustle harder than people with a job. As I understand everything that goes out on these waves are owned by the cybernuts or undergroud threads anyway they're never lost. I 'm still getting e-mails about the reading topic yesterday. And good ole anon/I loved it when at the end of the anon blog Day/he said that he had to tend to Mr Lederman/that was touching to my heart and justified the unpleasant blogs previously. Working in a psyche ward to keep the wiki up has to be gods 'work. As for me/I'm trying to cut down on slashes/I will never use a quotation mark again and dream only of queries.
Okay, I don't usually comment twice in a day, but are there really people who don't think piracy is stealing? Seriously? Why do you think it's called piracy and not borrowing? Okay, I'm done but I also want to say that I like Nathan's fiesty side which has come out in full force today. 🙂
piracy is a bad thing, kind of.
i have my reservations about it, but Dan Browns 'The lost symbol' was pirated hours before its release. didn't he still break a sales record or something?
piracy hasn't really even effected the music industry, artists don't seem to be struggling.
the real crime, and i am pretty sure i am alone in this way of thinking. is the price of the albums, books, and movies we all have to buy.
and yes i am an aspiring writer, who wants to sell books and i think this way.
analee-
Digital music sales are increasingly actually, and I would hypothesize that a lot of those sales are from people who previously might have pirated.
I don't mean to suggest that piracy was the only problem facing the music industry – much like the publishing industry the transition to digital means, inevitably, lower price and broken business models.
But at the same time, I do think piracy took a huge chunk especially during a time the industry needed to be innovating.
I share your hope that the industry will be smart about how it modernizes, and agree that much of this will be through making e-books available easily and cheaply. But I also think it's important to both stigmatize and fight back against piracy. Margins are really tight in a digital world.
And a final point on free: should we close bookstores and Amazon? Freevangelists are riding on an infrastructure that is built by paying customers. If no one is going to pay for anything: who is going to get the books to customers? Are we all going to be reading Word docs with a million typos?
kristi-
Yeah, I try and keep things on an even keel, but as you can see the piracy thing gets me riled up.
@Nathan:
About Amazon letting you download again: that's a most excellent move on their part, and probably an interesting marketing angle for the Kindle as well.
About syncing: I'd say you are slightly mistaken on two counts IMHO, one explicit, one implicit. The first one is that transferring the information of, say, where the reader left off, requires proprietary software. All it does require is a convention on how to transform that information into 0s and 1s, and on how to pass it from device to device. And that convention may very well be a completely open standard. The second possibly mistaken assumption, if I got you correctly, is that DRM is necessary for the exchange of that information. It isn't. This is what I was going on about in my above lengthy comment: the transfer of digital information between computer-like devices is something easy and extremely cheap. This is what computers exist for. That's neither a good or a bad thing in itself, once more; just a particular cat that is out of the bag for the time being.
About customers not necessarily being right, wanting things for free, etc: oh, that's an excellent point. Actually, I was basing the last part of my comment on the assumption that a significant percentage of all potential customers will be glad to pay to support an author they like, regardless of the availability of other means to obtain the book. You know, reading is a personal thing, in my, err, book. Maybe I'm wrong in this assumption, though. Nevertheless, I may be wrong, but a business model built upon the view of the customer as an antagonist doesn't sound terribly sustainable either. This is tricky, alright. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Maybe the Doctorow approach is right after all, who knows?
And about DRM self-righteousness: you have a good point about it more or less working out in practice; the resentment, I think, simply boils down to the simple fact that people instinctually like getting something tangible in exchange of their money — or more precisely something that's under their own control. Whereas the purpose of DRM is, by definition, to withhold some of that control. Hence, resentment. Just a hunch, anyway. I'm no psychologist.
Anyway. What will be, will be. Presumably the better approach will be a careful balance between the carrot and the stick, as usual. By which I mean, it won't work very well, but going to the extreme in either direction would work even worse.
As usual.
S'okay. I'll keep writing either way.
Thanks for explaining further, S. I wasn't aware that there could be both a means of syncing devices as well as an open format — could you accomplish this with the common ePub format or do you mean that there could be an open format that accomplishes this in theory?
Add this to the list of things I never thought I'd need to learn when I became a literary agent.
Me, I'm looking for the Thomas Pynchon t-shirt (with a blank, black silhouette).
It's huge subject, but these things I feel are true:
I don't like stealing (especially from me) and I pay for the music, movies and literature I want (though I've slipped up on YouTube a few times and always with a wince . . . yes, Gordon Lightfoot and Ennio Morricone didn't get my money like they deserved).
My Grand Personal Honor Aside, thieves have always been with us (as characters, a good thief can make a story hum as anyone who's read Donald Westlake and Richard Stark (along with Victor Hugo and Dostoyevsky) will attest.
With that in mind, I offer an evolutionary perspective–the more we guard against them, the more thieves find ways to worm around the safeguards and the more safeguards we create in response.
Endless adaptation from both sides: It's a fact of life, but one we have to face up to and deal with, rather than collapse in defeat (quitting writing and editing simply isn't in my DNA).
In the meantime, this week, I wrote about the USS Hornet Museum in Alameda at:
https://www.redroom.com/articlestory/the-uss-hornet-bloody-battles-and-blue-seas
Cheers everyone . . . .
I'm not trying to be a suck up–Nathan already knows I adore him–but I'm with the straight black and white moral argument. I work damn hard at writing for very little pay. In fact, I'm even an editor who can't pay nearly as much as I'd like. So, pleeeease, don't steal my writing. It's not yours until I sell it to you and it doesn't matter if I've sold millions of books or ten.
Stealing isn't about the degree of damage. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You can't make it right, whether it's shoplifting from Target or stealing a little old lady's purse. I wonder if those commenters are parents who will tell their kid it's okay to steal from them…they're rich.
Ah, but then, who cares if someone pirates a book? It's just a damned book. Anyone can write one, right?
I don't understand your reference to the Scribd lawsuit. I don't have a PM account so I couldn't access the article, but…
If it's the case that Google serves up, the one brought by Elaine Scott, it has nothing to do with "laissez faire" uploading policies, but rather Scribd's filter for PREVENTING unlawful uploads of pirated material.
Your tone suggests Napster-esque wrongdoing on Scribd's part, when they are acting to protect copyright holders.
Is there another care you are referring to, or are you intentionally attempting to cast aspersions on Scribd?
you cannot compare a media pirate to a man who steals someones purse.
the "you wouldn't steal a TV" adds before movies are ridiculous too.
its bad, and it should be monitored. but obviously doesn't hurt people.
the media industry could make money off the internet, and media pirates if instead of the last 12 years trying to handcuff kids, they would have spent the time researching ways, and becoming imaginative.
honestly, i defend both sides of the fence on this. sometimes "steeling" music online is the only way for some people to get it.
is that an excuse? maybe not, but its true.
andrew-
An author whose work was illegally uploaded to Scribd is suing them (and is seeking class action status) for not having sufficient safeguards in place to guard against illegal materials being uploaded. I'm really not weighing in on the merits of the case as I don't know the specifics, I'm just pointing out that when a site becomes big enough and well-trafficked to matter it becomes a target for anti-piracy lawsuits.
When it comes to print copies, how many sales are lost because friends lend each other books or buy used?
The real question is how will lost revenue due to the piracy of digital material (which is impossible to share legally) match up to lost revenue due to sharing (or buying used) print material?
Nathan, your point about size attracting lawsuits is well-taken, but I don't think Scribd has very deep pockets.
Best,
AD
Andrew-
Yeah, I doubt they do as well. But your point that I didn't summarize the lawsuit quite as accurately as I could have is well-taken, and I adjusted the post accordingly. You're right — it's not so much about their enforcement of what has been uploaded as much as lack of oversight over what is being uploaded.
i have another comment, i buy a lot of books from thrift stores. i am not paying the author that money, i am paying some other entity who also did not give the author any money.
and actually at one local thrift store, i actually get them free sometimes.
now, if a kid downloads a song, from an internet user, how is that different than me getting free books from thrift stores because i am a frequent customer?
i know, the size of how many downloads compared to my one store. but unfortunately, that isn't the Downloaders fault.
i am posting a lot i apologize Nathan but, i have thoughts
it is hard to actually catch those who download. there is a way that is easier and definite to stop downloading. and Nathan i think touched on it (maybe)
punish the people who are uploading, and sharing from their PC's.
that is easily catchable, it would also target a smaller audience, as there are always more downloaders than uploaders. and their information is always on.
I skimmed through the first few comments where the consensus appeared to be that people don't think piracy is that big a deal. As an epubbed author, I assure you, it is. One of my recent releases was pirated 4x more in two days than it sold in a month. This particular book has also been pirated on more sites than I care to count. Getting providers to take down the links is a long exhaustive process that takes away from the time I could spend writing. If you want to read what the owner of a pirate site said was his reason for making my book available, it's on my blog: https://www.deecarney.com/2009/09/01/frakking-hell/
The fact is this: people who pirate books will not stop. They have reasons they think are justified and no one can change their minds. I know this because I know people that pirate books.
It is a problem, and one I don't think can be resolved. At least, not right away. It is a very frustrating problem, but one I think the bigger names will have to deal with more than authors at the bottom.
Below is a creepy converstaion I just read on a well known pirate site. It's one of many I've read.They are talking about one of my books and how they can continue to download it for free. I blocked all the links and names, but otherwise it's verbatim.
"Link is closed."
"Yes, it was reported as a abuse."
I'll try to upload it in another site.
"Please don't feel the need to do so on my behalf, Hon. I downloaded the book for free some time ago."
"Please post the new link, sweetie! Thanks so much."
"Links removed at $%#*@" request –
"did not work…"
"The link is dead. Can somebody post a new one, please? Thank you."
(The new link)
"Thank you so much, Doll, I can't wait to read it!!"
****
As the author, I decided to join the site and get into the conversation. The owners of the web site blocked me completely after one comment. Evidently, these pirates and the ones who download from them don't like honest confrontation. And, unfortunately hide behind the mask of Internet anonymity.
It's not something I'd ever do, or have ever done in the past.
The moment books flutter from leaf to click, we're all (writers, publishers, readers) at the mercy of the Aaaar Jim Lad phenomenon.
The replicative spawnthrust of the digital age has hoist the sail of many a worthy benefit, most notably Project Gutenberg — a fine resource for text or pdf transcripts of the once creatively active yet now (all too sadly) shrivelled and dead — and Librivox, which, as far as I can see, is a stomping ground for stalwart enthusiasts of the copyright-expired written word whose microphone/throat combo is up for the amateur talking book thang.
Beyond this (for now) you're looking at torrents of scanned books — easily demanding more sweat and toil to render into the ether than transferring the vinyl wonder of Sticky Fingers to cassette or burning its CD mutant CD to minidisk or hard drive.
When books go digital, they'll acquire the transmission potential of Swine Flu (only without the pigs and the coughing, unless it's Animal Farm).
Word will out.
But will it render us speechless?
Dunno.
Well, I'm late as usual.
As a person who does believe that a corporate oligarchy has rigged the system for the benefit of a few against the welfare of the many (and has created a system that does not allow for nearly the degree of the upward mobility celebrated in our national mythos)….
Well, I'm still against the pirating of creative work. Even if that product is being published/distributed by the Evil Corporate Empire. It's still the result of individuals' very hard work and creativity.
If I as an author want to make a portion of my writing available for free, then that's my choice. But don't deprive me of my ability to choose by stealing my stuff.
I will admit, I probably have inadvertently bought pirated stuff before – DVDs in China – but I pretty much only buy Chinese movies in actual stores, so I'm hoping I supported the creators more than I ripped them off.
I think iTunes shows that a well-organized "storefront" where you can buy things legally can compete and win against pirates. I've never illegally downloaded a song – but I've definitely made use of iTunes. If an
"iTunes for Books" is created that works as well as the music version, at an attractive price-point, I think it will succeed.
Add to that the fact that books as physical artifacts aren't going away – I truly believe that though eBooks will increase in popularity and become a significant share of the market, they will not replace paper books in the foreseeable future – and hopefully the publishing industry will avoid the disasters that piracy created for the music business.
As a side-note, I used to work in Film/TV, and the example of what piracy did to the music business was constantly held up as what we could not let happen to our industry. I think this is why the film/TV business has been quicker to adapt to the realities of digital piracy and has moved towards making product easily – and instantly – available to stream or download. The bandwidth required gave them a little breathing room that the music business didn't get.
Word ver: "prolle." Heh.
This isn't the music industry – no one is making money on an author tours or Ian McEwan t-shirt
This isn't exactly true — HP's got a whole theme park going up, Twilight's got spin off merchandise; perhaps not as prevalent as the music industry, but a bit too dramatic.
Ultimately, I think AIC makes an excellent point in one of his posts — if the publishing industry can't handle the pirates (statically or by changing business models) then it will (I believe he used the term 'deserves' — too harsh) go down.
Pirates/theft exist/s in every industry. It's not right, it's upsetting (particularly when you're involved in said industry), but, ultimately, you have to accept it (sure, you can devise method A to solve the problem, but the thieves are already on workaround Z, as intimated by Ryan Field's post) and move on.
Just have that candlestick ready in case you meet an acknowledged pirate IRL.
I'm in the "not that big a deal" camp" on this one. It's the least worry to the big sellers, even though they will likely get pirated more. It might be more of a worry to those authors who make their living mostly through digital content. But still, is it going to be a big enough effect on anyone that a pub will drop an author because of it? No.
This doesn't mean it shouldn't be policed, because it is after all, against the law. It's stealing, and folks shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. Period. There will be those that no matter what is put in place to stop them, they will work around it. That's inevitable. The worst thing that can happen is that pubs freak out over it and hamper the general buying public's ability to get books. That's where sales will be truly lost, not from the piracy itself.
Nathan,
Great topic. Lively discussion. The justifications for piracy astound me. Taking something without paying for it. Isn’t that the classic definition of stealing?
Oh, wait. I’m missing the point. It’s a philosophical disagreement, a symbolic finger to the establishment. Capitalism sucks.
I get it. I’m a child of the ‘60s. I was weaned on that stuff.
Except you can’t hurt the fat cats without hurting their workers. Think illegal downloads are merely a slap at the status quo? Go back and read Cinda Chima, Marilyn Peake, Ryan Field, Linda Godfrey.
It’s not just business. It’s personal.
It’s not a difference of opinion. It’s theft.
Here in Thailand, there's a joke that there are no copyright laws. When you buy a computer, they'll install any software you want on it — any software — completely for free. East of town there's a Hard Rock Cafe, Chiang Mai with bamboo walls, but there is no Hard Rock Cafe, Chiang Mai.
So piracy's as big here as anything. Software, music, movies, everything. When Thais figure out how to make cheap e-Book knock-offs, books will be there too.
But it's been like this forever, and the industries are still around. I don't think piracy will ever go away (even 'legit' pirate sites get stung with viruses; the downloaders just deal), but neither do I think it will ever 'win.'
I think, rather, things will go on as they always have. Pirates will always exist; people will always fight them. Creative content makers will always complain, but most will ultimately lose a small percentage of sales.
I didn't know Nathan had a fiesty side. Learn something new everyday on this blog. 🙂
And color me shocked that the pirates try to make a moral case for their thievery. Really?
As for a look at what the "free" world of writing/publishing would look like, check out the fan fiction supposed-nirvana:
Anyone can publish, and does.
Everything is free.
It's extremely difficult to find good works. Of course it's not very original (it's fanfiction ), although there is a lot of original fiction that masquerades as fan fiction. Most stories are never finished. Talented authors are occasionally ferreted out by blogs searching for literary gold, valiantly trying to serve as gatekeepers (gasp!), but in the end, finding good lit is the proverbial needle in the haystack.
(Before anyone gets in a twist, I love fan-club nature of the fanfic world, and it has a positive or benign affect on most authors whose playground the ff writers play in)
iamfrightenedtoo:
you cannot compare a media pirate to a man who steals someones purse
Are you kidding me? Money is money is money. You steal my book and I don't get my royalties from it, you've just stolen my MONEY. REAL ACTUAL GREEN MONEY.
I just sold a novella for online publication. My opportunity for royalties are staggering in comparison to, say, a paperback, per units sold. IF my piece sells well. IF I actually get the money. IF my novella isn't immediately stolen and replicated to anyone who wants it for free.
And that's just for the product.
How about my time, too? Are pirates compensating me for that? How about you pirates go off to work and tell your boss, "Aw hell, just steal, say, 20% of my work for free." You gonna miss that 20% of your salary? Damn straight you will.
There is no excuse for piracy.
Anonymous Internet Coward wrote, "I'm an unpublished writer. It's a pretty scary place to be right now, so I'm keeping an eye on what it takes to make it work in this business. Only time will tell if I become successful or not, but you can be damn sure I'm not going to move forward with the mentality that piracy is wrong and good will triumph over evil! No way, no how. I'm going to take advantage of every edge that I can and make current buying and usage trends work for me whenever possible."
There might be a problem for you if you really do take that approach, at least if you want to make a living from your writing. There's a law that states that, if an author doesn't defend their book's copyright over a certain period of time after discovering that the content's been stolen, they no longer own the copyright and can no longer claim exclusive rights to the profit. In other words, by not defending your copyright, you give tacit approval to give up ownership of your manuscript. By knowingly permitting piracy of your works, you would be putting yourself in a situation of continuously writing books but losing your claim to copyrights and profits.
I get the vibe that piracy will indeed continue and definitely will affect the whole industry. Good thing for you is, you are already a highly respected/knowledgeable person and you will probably head up whatever change takes place. I mean, you might not be creating new software to fight it, but I'll bet you'll always be hired by the powers that be to read whatever format books are in the future.
aak. This doesn't make sense. My main point is that I Do feel like things are going to change. And whatever change it is, good or bad, I think you'll still be a varsity player in the game. Hopefully some of the rest of us will make the team too.
Now then, because this comment is kindof stupid and I can't seem to get my words out right, I'm going to exercise my right to use the "Anonymous" button, just because. 🙂 You might wonder why some of my named posts weren't anonymous, but that is not for discussion right now.
What a discussion!
I've never seen Nathan like this. "neener neener meaniepants??????" I love it. I wish this thread would go on for days and days and days. And Ink, calling people 'cows.??' Wow, this was fun! Today's a day I'm so glad you kept the anons, Nathan. And even though moral issues were flying all over the place, for the most part, everyone was well behaved. Which was very cool,but sort of surprising, actually.
So, the discussion itself was over my head. Lots of technology and business. I'm totally embarrassed to say this, but I don't know what DRM is. But, as usual, that will not stop me from offering an opinion.
First, whenever this issue comes up, Ryan breaks my heart. I am so sorry people steal your work!!! That's awful. And that conversation was horrible. And Marilyn, I'm so sorry to hear that about your work, too!!
I feel bad. I can think of a few things I did that essentially 'stole' work. I did not think of it that way at the time, but I do now. I won't ever do that again.
In terms of pirating, I am confident that industries will find a way around it. They may suffer in the short term, but the ability of people to make money in a capatalist society is just awesome. I think technology will be developed to block pirating. But even if it is not, other things could happen. For example, advertising could support books in the way that free T.V. is supported by ads. I could see publishers planting viruses to mine information off people that pirate, thus adding to their information power base. I could see some authors starting PR campaigns to stop piracy, refusing to print in e-format until they got a response. I could see passwords being set up, personal notes from authors in the forwards thanking people for not pirating (you could do this now, Ryan and Marilyn), or interactive media created that would add to the value of a book. So maybe they got the book for free, but they might purchase the game, the video, the interactive website fee, etc.
I also think e-books may sell better than regular books. E-books will become more accessible than printed books are now. A touch of the button, and boom – book. So, the market may grow, while the cost of printing may diminish and that may add to the overall bottom line regardless of piracy.
Oh – and SS@S. I'm so sorry too! That so sucks.