NB: I’m not sure if my sympathies are with J.R.R. Tolkien or with the (fictional) agent. Herbert makes some good points!!
By: Peter Cooper
Dear Mr. Tolkien,
Thank you for submitting a query for your children’s novel, “The Hobbit”. I regret to inform you that while the proposal shows merit, this agency may not be the best fit for your work.
If I might venture some feedback, your query letter needs to be improved if future submissions are to be met with success. Although well written, with some of the strongest grammar this agency has ever seen, your outline of the dilemma facing the main protagonist failed to engage me on an emotional level. You also spent far too much time talking about your professorship and expertise in Norse mythology and foreign languages. What has that got to do with anything? Tell me about your book!
On to the sample pages you supplied. From what I can see, most of your first chapter is taken up with back-story concerning “hobbits” and their unusual living arrangements. Indeed – by the end of this first chapter, the story still hasn’t started. Might I suggest commencing at a different point in the narrative? Your best bet would be to open with Bilbo in the grip of the Trolls, and gradually, as the tale progresses, present the back-story of how he came to be there. This will grab your young reader’s attention from the start, enticing them to read further while moving the story along at a much quicker pace.
As for the main protagonist – is it likely that children will relate to a fifty-something man with hairy feet who lives in a pit? Might I suggest making Bilbo younger and perhaps a tad less hairy? How about having him as a young tear-away living in his parent’s attic, perhaps escaping one night by tying his bed-sheets together, that sort of thing. This demonstration of a rebellious attitude and a desire for personal empowerment will far better capture the imagination of a young reader than a middle-aged man running off without a pocket-handkerchief. Trust me.
This might be a good place to mention the apparent gender imbalance in the work. There would appear to be just a slight deficiency of female characters in the story. To put this another way, there are none – zilch – zero. There are men with hairy feet, men with long beards, men with pipes, men who can see in the dark – there are even men who can turn into bears. There are men of every size, shape and smoking habit imaginable, but the closest you come to a female character is the inclusion of several slightly effeminate elves. This just won’t cut it in today’s publishing world. If you want to attract a female audience, you must include strong female role-models. My suggestion would be to make the wizard a woman. Gandalina has a nice ring to it. But lose the beard.
A final comment – the conclusion of your story is far from satisfactory. Having brought Bilbo across miles of uncharted wilderness and ever-present danger, someone else kills the dragon! I can already hear the wails of your young readers, devastated at such a radical deviation from accepted norms of children’s literature. I for one will not subject them to such a trial.
I wish you all the very best for your future submissions. Remember, publication is a highly subjective business, and one person’s trash may indeed be another person’s gold.
Yours Sincerely,
Herbert T. Agent
A Paperback Writer says
Bwaaa-haaa-haaa-haaa!
Oh my heck. This is funny.
And wouldn't we all like to see the rejection letter that JK Rowling got from the first agent she tried before Chris Little snatched her up?
It reminds me of the REAL incidents of non-literary history, too: the acting instructor who told Lucille Ball she'd never make it, and the recording company that heard a Beatles' demo record and turned them down because "guitar groups are on their way out."
Thanks for reminding us that pretty much everything in publishing is subjective.
Laura Martone says
I was just rereading the list of my 15 all-time favorite books (that I listed, as with many others, on Facebook)… and I realized that only a third of them were about female protagonists. So, I'm with Deniz Bevan… I'm a female reader and yet I love male-centric books. Incidentally, The Hobbit is on that list, too. I'm just sayin'…
Mira says
Marilyn – I agree. For his time, Tolkien used some strong female characters. For his time. Eowyn was also ready to die from depression because a man didn't love her. Arwen was basically just a prize to be won. Galadriel was idealized mainly for her beauty. So, you know, for his time.
But regardless, the hobbit is one of the most charming books written, in my opinion. And the LOTR is a masterpiece. The trick to reading LOTR is to skip over the 25 page descriptions of a mountain and get to the story.
CindyLou – that was a very good point!
Marilyn Peake says
Meg Spencer โ
I agree with you. It was amazing that, after the great success of book sales for THE HOBBIT, Tolkienโs publisher was against publishing THE SILMARILLION because he wanted more stories about hobbits. And my understanding is that THE LORD OF THE RINGS was broken up into three books due to financial concerns of the publisher. There has always been the creative side of the arts and the business side of the arts, and both camps have not always seen eye to eye. Thatโs nothing new.
nkrell says
This was genius! So true about the backstory. The Hobbit and LOTR are some of my favorite books (and movies). Well done.
Carolin says
Hah! Tolkien was one of my favorite authors as a youngster – still is ๐ Goes to show, doesn't it? I actually loved the first chapter, as it set the scene and put me into the world.
Tried to do something (not quite as telling) like that in my own first chapter, and got ripped a new one in my Writers' Group….
O tempora, o mores….
Carolin
Kristi says
Let's see if Rick can find a way to weave LOTR into his post tomorrow ๐
Marilyn Peake says
Mira โ
I felt like the women of THE HOBBIT and THE LORD OF THE RINGS were from past times in history, and I appreciated that their roles seemed realistic for the time, even though the time and place were actually fictional. I recently read SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD by Orson Scott Card โ fascinating view of male and female roles of different sentient creatures on different planets, as adaptations to their environment.
Newbee says
Classic! Very real in the world of literature today. I giggled to myself… but found it horrible to think back on so many books I loved as a child that would have, or could have, had this happen to them. Things could be so different if they were to be put out there today. Thank heavens it wasn't like that then…but lets be abit more opened minded now. (You listening everyone….?)
Marilyn Peake says
Even though I feel very protective of the classics, I do feel that a lot of popular literature today is actually much better written than many popular and mid-list books of the past because itโs so much easier to create manuscripts and edit them on the computer. The types of classics I love are those that make you think. Some modern literature moves too quickly for thought. That said, right now Iโm reading a recently published book, THE GRAVEYARD BOOK by Neil Gaiman, and the writing is absolutely phenomenal.
Brad Mohr says
This may be why I haven't truly enjoyed and devoured a new book in such a long time. No matter what book I pick up it somehow seems I've read it before.
But if you take the advice yesterday's post, gearing up your novel to compete in a bookstore full of the books that follow all the rules will ultimately make it a better book in the end, and one that is more unique to boot.
~Aimee States says
I adored The Hobbit and LOTR, and I do still reread them every few years. To say a prologue about pipe smoking would never work is untrue. The reality is, of the writers who do find success, a small portion of them could do what Tolkien did in the same manner he did it. I think the writing is timeless because it was done so well. You don't have to like the book, or the genre, or even the man himself, but the writing stands on its own. As to the Re:, excellent and so funny. It's a great reminder that the industry and agents really are subjective in their views of what will and will not work.
Merc says
Very funny, nice job! ๐
Jane Steen says
Like many of the commenters above, I've got mixed feelings about your post. I loved it, because you were right about The Hobbit's flaws (and LOTR could have had whole chunks of the story cut from it, the Tom Bombadil episode being the obvious one). On the other hand, much of my early reading life was spent in pre-WWII books, and when I reread them now, I can perceive how my own tastes are being altered (eroded?) by today's values. The old chronological, wordy, self-indulgent novel contained many gems, but I'm sidetracked by my inner critic saying "well it's chronological, wordy, and self-indulgent" rather than being able to sink myself into the author's world as I used to. I feel as if I've lost something.
Thanks for a funny but also thought-provoking post.
ryan field says
This was great. I needed to read something like this today.
Linda Godfrey says
Peter — my Precciioouussss! Very clever and funny. Herbert does have his points, which makes it all the more amazing that Hobbit and LOTR still have a wide fan base despite their size, pace, and lack of 4-letter words or vampire sex scenes. Good grief, Tolkien doesn't even have a blog! At least not in this world. But that didn't stop me from reading the trilogy twice. I think it is great that the taste of agents varies — and probably always has — or how monotonous would the selections on our bookshelves be?
Marilyn Peake says
I hope this isnโt too off-topic, but I thought it related to the theme of publishing in our modern world. I just read that the U.S. cover for LIAR will be changed: here. The Publisherโs Weekly article describes the change as "Proof of the power of the web". In some ways, today is a very good day to be a writer. Once LIAR gets its new cover, I will buy a copy.
Anonymous says
This was hilarious! But I love "The Hobbit". It's the original Harry Potter. ๐
Other Lisa says
Oh dear. This is perfect! Thanks for this!
I too loved "The Hobbit." I actually got kinda burned out by the time I hit Vol. 3 of the Trilogy.
How many of you have read this little gem?
"An Elven maid there was of yore,
A stenographer by day…"
Kristin Laughtin says
I have not laughed this hard in a long time, and most of it was because this letter mirrored my sentiments on THE HOBBIT exactly.
Marilyn–Thanks for that link! When I read about that cover, I was quite upset. I'm glad to hear it's being changed. (The original design was beautiful, though, so maybe they can use it for something else.)
thoughtful1 says
I really agree with Laura Martone's post exactly. Funny, but also sad.
Mira says
Marilyn, I was thinking about our discussion, and I do think Tolkien was ground breaking. To have a female character bring down the great king of the shadows…..I can't think of a female warrior like that prior to Tolkien, in Western culture, although I could be wrong.
From that spawned all the fantasy novels about a female in disguise who breaks out of traditional roles.
But it's still pretty sexist. At least by today's standards. I mean, if he could make little round people with hairy feet the heros of the story – he could have come up with a woman to be a part of the nine. But people are defined, in part, by their times.
For the record, I don't think it weakens the story.
RCWriterGirl says
Alright, this is hilarious. This has been the most enjoyable of your guest blogs I've read. FABULOUS.
Marilyn Peake says
Mira,
I understand exactly what you mean. I won't name names, but I find some modern YA novels' heroines actually more disturbing because … well, they're supposed to be modern, for goodness sakes. I usually feel like having a good long talk with said heroines, LOL. I once purchased one of those novels and its sequel in an airport store as my ONLY entertainment on a cross-country plane ride. Long hours in the plane were the only reason I finished the first novel, and have yet to read the sequel. ๐
Peter Cooper says
Hi everyone,
Sorry to only be surfacing now – in my part of the world it's just gone dawn and I'm sneaking some time on here before going to work.
I'm really glad people enjoyed the post! I suppose, in essence, it's a message of encouragement – that people have different tastes and will often see the same thing in radically different ways. One person sees a list of broken conventions, another sees a wonderful story. Don't be too put-off by rejection, just keep trying to write the best book you can.
And, just as a note of interest, Tolkien did have a lot of trouble getting the Hobbit into print – in the end the matter was decided by the young daughter of one of the publishers at Allen & Unwin!
Thankyou, Nathan, for publishing this.
P.
Bane of Anubis says
OL, speaking of a dying genre — I remember reading a bunch of Robert Asprin's Myth-Inc books growing up — not too many parodies out there anymore.
Marilyn, thanks for the link about Liar's change. As for Speaker For The Dead, loved that book growing up, though an ex-Mormon friend of mine told me that Card's got a bunch of subtle LDS references thrown in (haven't gone back and read anything to see if I can pick them up) and I wonder if that plays any role in the male/female dynamic in SPFTD.
As far as The Hobbit/LOTR, they're definitely books I prefer more in spirit than in actual print.
Mira, what really cracks me up about the whole gender thing, was women – when they were given 'important' roles – were given evil important roles (e.g., 'Cinderella,' 'Snow White', etc)… i.e., strong women are evil women ๐ and all you other dames need to be saved by princes or fairy godmothers.
Joann says
Brilliant post! You now have a fourth Cackling Scribe reader. ๐
Danielle Thorne says
I'm actually reading JRR Tolkien, Author of the Century, right now, so this hit home. Hilarious, clever, and sadly, I imagine very realistic.
susiej says
Hilarious! Thanks for making my day. Makes you almost glad to get the form rejection.
And Mira, as a Tolkien fanatic, I have to respectfully disagree about Eowyn. She wanted to ride to battle, not be stuck at home watching the children. That's what really made her depressed and pretty modern for that time. (She just saw Aragorn as a way out.)
Ebyss says
The Hobbit is a classic. And for those of you think that young children and teens can not appreciate a well written story, your wrong.
When I was younger I read The Hobbit several times along with rest of Lord of the Rings trilogy. So did my friends. This was in the mid-eighties.
Now that I have sons and daughters of my own…they have all read the same books and so did their friends, some even before the release of the movies. And loved it. What is important is that it held their interest.
Once in awhile I think that other people are trying to shape and/or infer what they think the public should be reading. Instead of just looking at the fact that if a book is good, it is good, and if all you do is look for action within the first couple of pages, then that is leaving a lot of novels that should have been published out-out-out.
I tend to think that most people, including young readers, are not just mindless drones. That they like imagery, words, and to have a wonderful world painted for them (either fantastic or real). Something that takes them from their own existence and brings them into an imaginary one.
This is just not what I am thinking, this is based upon what I have witnessed in my classrooms. Children who are only suppose to love books that leapt into action have read classics like The Hobbit, To Kill a Mockingbird, Lord of the Flies, and most have loved these classics. Not the papers that they had to write. ๐ They did love these books though.
And without saying a title, a huge best seller, made into a movie, started with nothing in the beginning except a girl who moved and went to school. Absolutely no action, nor tension, until around page 20. This book has held the interest of millions and not only that, but has given some teens who had no interest in reading, an interest. So kudos to that author.
My point is that I donโt think there are any valid points in this at all. All that is in here is stuff that someone thinks that they should be thinking because that is what they are told to think.
Sarah says
Omigosh. Thank. You. For. This!!! Made my day.
Marilyn Peake says
Here's a picture of new U.S. book cover for LIAR and more information about how the decision was made.
Bane of Anubis says
Ebyss, I grew up in the 80's/90's (my wife would say I'm still a work in progress ๐ and while I think you make some good points (about the quality/entertainment factor of certain classics — though I think 'love' might too strong a word for most of those), I think there has been a massive paradigm shift in our cultural landscape.
We are an ADD culture that thrives on instant news/information and thus tend to want instant action… Sure, we can all appreciate a good story that takes awhile to percolate, but it behooves authors (particularly YA authors) to jump into the middle of the lake.
If you can hit the ground running while incorporating strong world and character building, you're a step ahead of the game.
That being said, yeah, publishers/editors/agents are probably a bit overreactionary when it comes to what's gonna sell (b/c, like most of us, they're trend-followers more than trend-setters).
Twilight was an aberration, not the norm. It was certainly lightning in a bottle (for the author; definitely not for this reader) that re-ignited a genre, but, ultimately, SM was either lucky or well-connected…
Hopefully, we'll all have some measure of that luck and some measure of that skill (or, IMO, a little more) and with enough persistence and perseveration and attention to trends, a small measure of that success…
And maybe one or two of us will start a trend and we can say we knew Jane Smith or John Doe before they made it big and we might hit you up for a blurb or an agent recommend ๐
sally apokedak says
very funny. I read The Hobbit, when I was child–a female one at that–and loved it. Still do.
Ebyss says
Bane,
I do not disagree with you at all. Starting with action while building a world is great, and possibly a step ahead.
My point was that there are several books that young readers like that don't start with action. And because of this, potential new books should not be excluded because they don't start that way. A book should be offered to the public because it is a good read. And that these books should be given consideration whether they start off with a bang or not.
I really don't think that this generation is as ADD as some tend to think that they are. I honestly think that readers like to have characters and a world build for them too.
There is room for both types of styles.
And whether SM got lucky or not to be published is not the point, no one forced people to buy her books. Young and old alike bought her books because they liked the story. I was using her as an example of how a story can capture a reader's interest without a big bang.
Thanks for the comments though. Very valid points. ๐
Karyn Lewis says
Great post! Very funny and thought provoking.
I've loved Hobbit/LOTR since I first picked them up as a preteen, and reread the whole series every year or so.
As a woman, I have to disagree that the books are sexist.
I mean, come on… Galadriel ruled an entire elven nation. What more could a girl ask for than to be President or Queen of a country?
Eowyn defied the conventions of her day and went to war, and killed the King of the Nazguls because she was so strong and heroic. And who hasn't been tortured by unfulfilled love, man and woman both?
And even Arwen, if you read in the notes to find out what happened to her, was strong in her way, choosing love and being doomed to lonliness and heartache. I'm sure some people might think that Arwen was stupid to choose a family over her own immortal happiness, but that's another kind of strength. And she was always there to go give her partner the strength he needed. She wasn't just a pretty face. She gave Aragorn the confidence to believe in himself and be King.
So there are role models for girls in Tolkein's books.
When I read, I'm gender blind. I'm Harry, I'm Bilbo… It doesn't matter what sex the protagonist is. Human traits are universal. We should all read widely, about all kinds of different people, in different kinds of genres.
Bane of Anubis says
Ebyss, to clarify a bit — I definitely wish it weren't the case that the industry felt like things should/need to start w/ a bang and eventually we'll probably revolve back to a point where that's not the expectation… Just feel like these are the rules as of today and we've got to abide by them (to a certain extent) no matter how stupid they may seem to us.
The SM reference to lucky was more about her getting her foot in the door, not the book buying part (which goes more to show the point that publishers are behind the curve more often than not) b/c she didn't follow the cookie-cutter model.
Of course, bang-bang books are probably a good place to start w/ boys ๐
Writeaholic says
Great post!
I'm one of those who wanted to be a writer because of reading The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings when I was a tween. Tolkien gave us so much — I'd hate to think of what would happen to his works if he tried to get published today. I'd like to think someone would see beyond the narrative style and see the great story underneath.
Ebyss says
Bane,
Once again, very valid points.
And my point is that it is the industry that is thinking that, and therefore pushing what they think on potentially great authors. I just don't think they are really looking at what the public wants, they are inferring what they think we, as the public, should be reading.
I honestly think the public wants a good read whether or not it starts with a bang. Of course, this is just from what I see when most readers from my classes enjoys a classic.
Just FYI, both of my teenage sons loves SM novels, the whole series. Loves it and loved it way before the big hooha started about it.
I am lucky I have a houseful of readers. The one part of me that rubbed off on them. ๐
And once again, I do not disagree with you. I just think it is sad, like you, that great books could possibly be passed up because of what the industry thinks we should be reading.
And maybe one day the industry will also see this and see that there is room with both types.
Great Comments. We really are on the same wavelength. I really do have to agree with you and the points you made. ๐
Leigh KC says
Peter, really, really enjoyed your letter. It encapsulates all the very useful advice one is likely to receive from an agent ๐
I know a lot of writers have experienced this, but on the very same day, I onced received a response from two agents: one saying she loved my sub-plot and the other saying get rid of it. No wonder we writers don't know up from down. Note: this is not agent-bashing which I refuse to participate in.
RLS says
Okay, but here's the thing, I couldn't get past the beginning of The Hobbit, and I tried, dear God, I tried. Is it pathetic that I would've enjoyed a girl/woman character every forty pages or so? And yes, a story that sucked me in right away.
Oh well, I found Judy Blume, (and later, Salinger) (and much later, ritalin) so it all worked out.
That said, you're hilarious. And…I concur with the sentiment.
TERI REES WANG says
It is that much easier to accept when it the blow has made to someone else's ear.
Marilyn Peake says
Peter,
Just wanted to let you know that I really enjoyed your Guest Blog and all the interesting discussion that followed!
Brad says
I'm actually very surprised at the amount of support I'm hearing for the criticisms in the response.
Mira says
Marilyn – I know! We still struggle with these issues today. Sexism is still alive and well, as are most forms of targeting and discrimination. But we have made progress! Do you realize women have only had the vote for less than 100 years?
Bane – I know again! Fear of the 'witch' still lingers in our culture.
SusieJ – well, can I respectfully disagree with you? ๐ Because Eowyn stopped feeling suicidally depressed when she found true love with Faramir. There's nothing in there about becoming her own woman, assuming the throne, getting a job as a mercenary warrior, etc.
Karyn, I agree there are strong women role models in Tolkein. I'm just arguing that the lack of a female main character ( especially one that was part of the fellowship) is because Tolkein was born in 1894 and his viewpoint of women was limited. But gender roles were expanding in the early part of the century, and his writing reflects that.
Peter, fun post, and fun discussion. Thanks!
Douglas Brown says
Hilarious blog. It is so true and so sad that a great piece of literature could be missed because the author isn't either a strong query writer or able to explain something so magnificent as the Hobbit in a single page. We can all cross our fingers that Nathan takes this blog to heart and gives some of us chances that our query letters otherwise might not have earned. Wink, wink. Maybe he'll find the next Hobbit.
annerallen says
Genius post. Funny and sad and true.
Yay new Liar cover!
And Mira–in 1900, a little girl named Dorothy brought down the Great and Terrible Oz by pulling back that curtain. I don't know if she qualifies as a female warrior, but I'd vote yes.
Lea McKee says
Amazing post. I loved the Hobbit when I read it as a child.
You just made me feel so much better about my query!
Thank-you!
Robena Grant says
I laughed so hard the dog came into the office and gave me a quizical glance and a head tilt.
All I can say is, I'm soooo glad Herbert T. Agent is not responding to my query letters.
Anonymous says
Thank you. I feel so vindicated.
I have not taken such a deep breath in months.