One of the more unique aspects of writing is the way people associate themselves and their identities with their words on the page. People don’t just spend time in the evening reflecting on the capricious vicissitudes of life and/or zombie killers from another planet. It somehow becomes more than that.
You can see this in the way people talk about writing: some people compare it to oxygen, i.e. something that they can’t live without. They don’t say, “I like to write, it’s fun, I enjoy it.” They say, unequivocally, “I am a writer. It’s who I am.”
I’m going to be honest here and say that while I don’t judge people when they define themselves as writer, whatever their publication status, I find it a little unsettling when they make it an overly intrinsic part of their identity.
First of all, people just don’t tend to define themselves by what they do in their spare time. You don’t hear anyone shout to the rafters, “I AM STAMP COLLECTOR!” or “I AM A CONNOISSEUR OF REALITY TELEVISION!”
To be sure, there’s something about writing that’s a little different (to say the least) from stamp collecting. It’s more personal, even when it’s not a memoir or something that relates directly to someone’s real life. Putting thoughts on the page, any thoughts, means taking one’s inner life and putting it all out there for the world to see. Normally we’re at great pains to keep our emotions hidden, whether that’s concealing anger or love or nervousness. Writers do the opposite: they take their innermost thoughts and show them to the world. And there’s something scary/thrilling about externalizing what is normally kept hidden.
But an identity?
Here’s where that becomes problematic. Once someone makes the leap from writing as a fun, intense pursuit to something wrapped up in identity, it’s a dangerous road to be walking on. As we all know, the path to material success in the writing world is ridden with obstacles and rejections. And when people begin to wrap up their identity with the publication process, the rejections become personal, and a judgment on a book becomes intertwined, in the writer’s eye, with a judgment of self.
Sure, there’s something unique and personal about writing, which is what so many people love about it. But I don’t think the ideal is pursuing it in an all-consuming Randy “The Ram” fashion. The moment the writing or the publishing process becomes the defining part of someone’s identity, when it becomes oxygen, that’s a time when the writer is risking having that oxygen choked off by forces completely outside of their control.
I hear from these people all the time. They’re the ones who start spamming agents, who write me angry e-mails, and who go on tirades about the publishing process. They’ve stopped enjoying the writing process, and because writing is so wrapped up in their self-conception, they can’t bear the pain of rejection and instead look outward for blame.
What do you think? Is it realistic to think that something so time-intensive and personal can be placed in a more hermetically sealed mental box? Is there even an ideal approach?
UPDATE: I scrubbed this post of the word “hobby” because I think it was distracting from the intent of the post. For the record: I don’t think a creative pursuit is the same thing as a hobby, I don’t prejudge people who call themselves writers, and as I hope is already abundantly apparent, I admire anyone and everyone who takes the time to put word to page. I only meant “hobby” as in something that one does that is not one’s career, not as something trivial.
As I mentioned in the comments section, this post could have been summed up: “Don’t let the publishing process define you.” But I didn’t have time today for such a short post.
Anonymous says
“[Van Gogh] also only ever sold one painting in his lifetime.”
But that 1 made him a pro, didn’t it? He made money at it. While he was alive. How many other painters during his time did not? Plenty.
Anonymous says
There’s writing and then there’s writing. I’ve been a Tech Writer for 20 years. Millions of my publications have been read. I don’t consider that’s not what I mean when I talk about “writing”. I assumed that would be understood by the context of this discussion.
And re the fisherman comment: Let me know when they get up at 3:30 EVERY DAY and then spend 10 hours a day on the weekend cutting bait.
Lurker says
Anonymous said: “It’s a hobby if you don’t make a living at it. No other way to put it.”Mm. By that definition, raising children is a hobby.
Anonymous says
I think of myself more as a businesspserson, because I sell what I write.
I spend more time marketing what I’ve written than I ever spent writing it, and from what I hear, that’s not unusual. Too many people here place an undue amount of emphasis on the writing, and not enough on the selling.
Writing is fun–a hobby. Selling what you’ve written is much more difficult–a business–real work.
I think that’s why some writers don’t sell–they just don’t want to work that hard. they just want to play, putting words on a page. But that don’t bring home the bacon. I think back to my pre-pubbed days and how much time I had to write…geeez. Now I spend 1/10 of that writing and the rest out promoting ad naseuam. Fun? Not exactly. But I sell books. Glamorous? Hardly. It’s actually pretty tedious. But readers don’t buy what they haven’t heard of.
Anonymous says
“By that definition, raising children is a hobby.”
No, because kids grow up to have incomes and oftentimes end up supporting their parents later in life. So they are a form of investment, both financially and genetically.
Anonymous says
Guess you never heard of royalties. 😉
Anonymous says
Perhaps “investment” is the proper way to look at up-and-coming writers who haven’t yet been contracted for what they’ve written. By developing their craft they are investing in their own future, the same way that stock market investments will hopefully pay off some time in the future.
Anonymous says
…of course wel all know that not all investments pay off.
Lurker says
Anonymous, I don’t know if Van Gogh felt like a pro when he sold that painting. He probably hoped it was the beginning of great things. And it was, but he didn’t live to see them.
Sometimes there’s a problem of never being satisfied with your successes. (Sure, I got good reviews, but I didn’t get any starred reviews. Etc.)
That bothers me about myself. It bothers me less when I’m dissatisfied with what I’ve actually produced, as opposed to how it’s received, because the former at least is within my control.
Zen of Writing says
Does it really surprise you that writers are ego maniacs just like other kinds of artists?
Then again, plenty of my computer clients are neurotic pains in the ass.
That said, I wouldn’t want your job.
😉
Heather Zenzen says
I disagree. Just because a stay-at-home mother isn’t paid, does that make her work any less valuable? Does she somehow lose the credibility to identify herself by her career simply because there isn’t a monetary exchange going on?
I’m a writer. I’m not published, I haven’t made money at being a writer in a long time, but I’m still a writer. And I will always be a writer. I’ve been a writer since childhood. It’s something I need to do to stay sane, to make sense of my world, to ease my brain. It’s WHO I AM, almost as much so as that damn mothering thing.
Incidentally, it was the mothering thing that led me to break from writing for a few years. The result? Mind-numbing depression and unhappiness. Now that I’m writing again, and on my second book, I’m back to the happy person I was before my lovely children took over my life.
Just as I will always be a mother, I will always be a writer. No matter who rejects me, no matter how many books I write without being published, I will always write. Because sanity is important to me.
Marilyn Peake says
I love the topic of whether or not something’s a hobby until it makes money. I’ve been reading science books on theories about possible time travel, as background for the science fiction novel I’m writing. Discovered some fascinating information. Einstein developed some of the world’s most important scientific theories while he was a patent clerk. Scientists at first resisted his work because he wasn’t yet a real (paid) scientist, but his theories were impossible to refute. Many scientists who have completely revolutionized our world were completely obsessed with their work, often neglecting their personal lives. Some were insane. Nikola Tesla who discovered AC electricity was extremely eccentric … I read about some of his experiments last night, and – wow! – that was a fascinating read!
Anonymous says
“Sometimes there’s a problem of never being satisfied with your successes.”
Quite true. I see somany writers saying things to the effect of, “but it’ll all have been worth it when I’m published” and I just cringe. Publication is not the magic barrier so omany make it out tobe. It’s just the beginning. it marks the point at which you have LESS time to write because now you ahve to promote what you’ve written while simultaneously writing new material on a deadline.
And then you’ll be upset that your advance wasn’t as big as you’d hoped, your amazon rank is’t as high as the next guy’s writing the same kind of stuff, that your reviews aren’t quite as good or as many as you’d hoped, and that your royalty check are too small and far between. There will ALWAYS be something to complan about.
Anonymous says
It should also be noted that Einstein was 26 when he was working in the patent office, an age that most students today haven’t even earned their PhD’s (hence are not yet professional scientists).
Anonymous says
So einstein basically became a professional scientist at the age of 26 by getting his theories published. He took a different route, but was sstill only 26 by the time he was pro. So I wouldn’t use him as an example.
Anonymous says
Nathan represents the business side of publishing.
I suspect that when Nathan looks for an author, he is looking for a creative partner. He is not looking to collaborate with someone who cannot breathe if the masses do not receive their work exactly as they envisioned.
No agent wants to partner with someone whose sanity or emotinal wellbeing depends on their writing. How can an agent approach such a person about making his or her writing/work more marketable?
Writers who define their self-identity through their writing should stay out of publishing. They should write for themselves – they should stay in the art and stay out of the business.
Van Gogh was mentally unstable – who, in their right mind, would partner with him? Now, his estate I would have taken.
Sarah says
Great question!
I’m one of those folks who didn’t mention writing for years. Years and years.
I didn’t breathe the word ‘writer’ until I joined a critique group, the Slushbusters. It didn’t seem right to call myself a writer until I had a group of people pointing out how much I needed to improve. It implied some sort of commitment, I guess.
All that to say, writing’s part of who I am, but not all of it.
I agree that crazy-touchiness comes from making something your identity. However, in my experience, singers, pilots, servers, students and even teachers do a fine job of freaking out as well.
Maxwell Cynn says
I must totally disagree with you here. To compare writing to stamp collecting and call it a hobby is hard to believe coming from an agent. Well, maybe not.
I have written a couple of conciliatory blogs on the whole writers v/s agents flap, but your comments here embody the disrespect and disdain some serious writers feel they are receiving from some agents.
Literature is an art form. To agents, manuscripts may be a commodity to buy and sell, but to writers it is our art. Writing is not something someone can just pick up as a hobby. Not everyone can write a simple essay, even fewer a novel, and even fewer still can do either well.
As a writer, I am insulted by your comparison. I assume you consider painting, music, acting, singing, et al to be hobbies. They are not.
Though anyone can attempt, and possibly enjoy, artistic expression, each is a gift. I can sing, but I am not a singer. I am a writer, and I love what I do. Artist do tend to live their art, in any field. Yes it defines us.
I am saddened that an agent doesn’t understand that – even more that you ridicule it.
max
Anonymous says
It’s not so much an identity- It’s just the way people are. Some people are good carpenters, some are good at communicating a universal feeling. Most can’t make a living out of it- some can, but for most that’s just not the case.
My opinion- If you ‘aren’t’ passionate about your work don’t bother. You’re then just a bad liar. If you’re in this just to impress your buddies, then you’re in this for the wrong reasons.
It’s not about being seen Mr. Bransford- It’s about being heard.
Insincerity is the greatest blasphemy no matter your beliefs.
Nathan Bransford says
max-
Here’s what I said (again): “Sure, there’s something about writing that’s a little different (to say the least) from stamp collecting. It’s more personal, even when it’s not a memoir or something that relates directly to someone’s real life. Putting thoughts on the page, any thoughts, means taking one’s inner life and putting it all out there for the world to see.”
Honestly, I am more than a little mystified that people are getting from this post that I’m equating writing and stamp collecting, or that I’m somehow disparaging writers.
Anonymous says
As a longtime stamp collector, I’m offended that so many here see my hobby as trivial. I’m a historian!
R.M.D says
Nathan,
The practical, realistic part of my brain (which happens to be a plump british man), just rose a glass of–whatever brits drink–to you.
But…the rest of me believes that true writers have a gift. Sure, “anyone” can “technically” “write”, but for the true writer, it’s not a choice. It really is a need; the story is in your head and it’s not leaving you alone until you put it on paper, even if no one will ever read it.
Personally, I am a very realistic person. I write on my time off, when I can. Eventhough I would LOVE to actually finish any one of the novels that are buzzing in my head, I cannot, in good conscious, quit my job and devout myself to being a writer.
Anonymous says
Come on, people!
Nathan was very clear… and several of you other Anons are proving his point.
You are excessively ‘touchy’ – heck, you cannot even read objectively. As soon as your ‘art’ is mentioned, your unmentionables get in a knot.
Yikes, you guys would be a barrel of fun to work with.
Get over yourselves!
BTW: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Every person who reads our work will decide for himself or herself whether they consider us a writer or a hack.
If you don’t like it, too bad.
Welcome to publishing.
Mira says
Wow. Look at all the people.
You should write posts like this more often, Nathan. Something really juicy and controversial – this is fun.
Although I hope you’re doing okay. I think you accidentally, with the best of intentions, hit a few sore spots.
One sore spot – so few of us will ever be published. But we still want to feel as though our efforts are valuable (which they are.)
But – I was happy to see your post. I found last week’s ‘sacrifice’ post alarming. People are giving up so much!! Family, love, relationships, health. We don’t live to write, people.
We write to live.
So, Nathan, I support you in your stance to get a sense of balance!
PurpleClover says
Wow, what post are these people reading?
I leave to go eat and come back and suddenly the direction has done a 180!
Nathan – Are you having a bad Tuesday? 😉
Nathan Bransford says
purpleclover-
Nope, pretty good Tuesday actually, just busy!
Barb says
Nathan,
I hope you have a really large field somewhere. You got a lot of goats with this blog.
Mira says
So, tomorrow’s post.
Let’s see.
How about: The only ‘real’ writing is literature.
Or maybe: The publishing industry should function as a gatekeeper for our own good.
Oh! I got it: Stephen King’s book “On writing” is a travesty. (God, I hate that book with a red hot poker of passionate hate. Bad book! Bad book!)
Oh, or maybe: Writing is not your only identity.
….oh wait. We did that one.
Aileen Leijten says
Is it me, or do people seem to have strong feelings about this topic?
Way to start a discussion Natan!
Beth Terrell says
I’ve never fired off an angry letter to an agent, and I try to learn (graciously) from criticism of my manuscripts, but I have always thought of both writing and teaching as integral facets of my personality, because that is how I see the world. I see stories everywhere, and helping others learn is as natural to me as breathing.
I taught special education for twelve years, and though I have a different day job now, one that pays the bills and fills my time, it in no way defines me. My soul is still that of a writer and a teacher.
Writing is not a hobby to me. Canine freestyle, playing a little guitar, sculpting original dolls, and doing the occasional theatre production…for me, those are hobbies, because I do them strictly for fun and relaxation. But writing? I may not make my living from it yet, but it is much, much more than a hobby.
Sea Hayes says
Nathan,
I think people are put off by the fact that you are a gatekeeper for writers on the path to publication. Most of your posts are both informative and encouraging, and the tone of this post is a little edgier. For better or worse, your opinions matter more to some people because of what you do. If the number of comments you receive daily hasn’t clued you in, maybe this will.
Maxwell Cynn says
Maybe it’s the idea that writing is just a hobby until it is commercial and someone can make money off of it. Many painters die broke and starving, as do poets – possibly some of the best. Tolkien’s greatest work, IMHO, was not published until after his death.
Writing, like any art form, is a gift. Not something that can be learned or ever mastered. I may never have a best seller, but that is not why I write. Not that I wouldn’t love that, but probably not for the reason some might think. I would like a best seller because that would mean more people have read my work. I write for the same reason a painter paints, or a singer sings.
It is someting that comes from inside and demands to be expressed. I’m sorry if you find that “a little unsettling”. It has been described, clasically, as a muse. I write to express, not impress, and I seek to be published so that I can share my gift with others.
Hilabeans says
About writing as an identity, I can see how one’s self esteem can be decimated by rejections, but for me, writing is something that I’ve always done and will always do. An agent turning down the stellar opportunity to work with me (like that switch-a-roo?), isn’t going to make stop. Does that mean that Hilary is only a writer? No. Absolutely not. (3rd person is fun – you should try it)
However, reading this post did send me on a guilt trip. Cruising through Monster.com now. Maybe a day job isn’t a bad idea after all. 😉
HHS
Hilabeans says
The editor is alive and well within me. The sentence in my previous post should read:
An agent turning down the stellar opportunity to work with me (like that switch-a-roo?), isn’t going to make ME stop.
HHS
Linda says
I am writer, mother, wife, sister, lover, reader, gardener, poet, potter, sculptor, jeweler, daughter, photographer, lampworker, mentor, professor.
The order changes every day, sometime every hour, but the top 3 usually take top priority, And while I have been paid for my writing, it is the professor role that pays the bills.
I ‘work’ to live, not live to ‘work’.
Peace, Linda
Jill Lynn says
Van Gogh only sold one painting in his lifetime? Several years ago I sold two landscapes I painted. OMG! I outsold Van Gogh. I’m not a writer, after all. I’m a painter! 🙂
Nathan, I often wonder when responders on your blog get a tad disrespectful, what you get out of this? You offer writers a community and an insider’s view, but what do we do for you? Might make a nice little blog topic someday. My guess is you enjoy the company of writers, although I’m sure some would never see it that way.
lisanneharris says
Spamming agents? Or spamming an agent? There’s a big difference between the two imho. Sending queries to X number of agents in search of one who will fall in love with my story doesn’t make me a spammer.
Is writing my hobby? No. It’s what I do. I write non-fiction articles (for pay), proposals, estimates, invoices, receipts, checks, etc. I also write historical romance stories I hope to one day see published in book form from a major publisher. It’s not a game to me.
I have the time and the inclination to approach my writing as a career and a business. I spend 10 or more hours a day–almost every day–toiling away toward my writing career.
Reading, beach combing, playing video games (and a host of others) are my hobbies. If someone asks what I do, I wouldn’t say I’m a reader or a beach comber. I’m a writer.
Thank you for allowing me this space to voice my opinion. I find great value in most of your topics, but this one struck a nerve. I guess that’s what makes your writing stand out, Nathan. The things you think and say have the ability to get an emotional response from your readers. 🙂
Lis’Anne
Walter says
In addition to all that, calling myself a writer and claiming it to be a part of my identity almost makes me feel guilty. I feel undeserving of the title. I run a lot, but I don’ really feel right calling myself a runner until I’ve won the Boston Marathon. And maybe not then either.
Anahita says
I like the idea of writing as a hobby. By the way, I know this discussion is not the place but still I’d like to say this: I just finished reading the book STORY by Robert McKee. It is a great book. I learned a lot. I practiced its techniques and enjoy the results. Thanks Nathan for writing about it a while ago.
Nathan Bransford says
max-
Again. I didn’t call writing “just a hobby.” Nor did I say that it becomes more than that when money is involved.
This post is about not letting writing be an all-consuming identity because the path to publication is so inherently uncertain. I feel like you may be willfully misreading it at this point.
Heidi C. Vlach says
Hmm. Seems to me that the problem is semantics.
When people say writing is their oxygen, they’re missing the point. The creative process is their oxygen. Writing is just the medium they happen to use. By putting so much emphasis on the simple act of putting words together, yeah, I can see how that would throw things out of perspective. I wrote a sentence! I bled and sweated over it and it’s serious business! That’s when the sense of entitlement starts setting in.
I bristled when I first read this entry, but after some thought, I do see the point. Fixation is unhealthy. True. But Nathan, if the entry made a clearer distinction, I don’t think people would be getting so huffy at you. The entry seems to suggest that calling oneself a writer, getting serious about writing, and being mentally unbalanced are pretty much all the same. That’s how it came off to me, anyway. And that’s an awful lot of blame to put on one word!
Nathan Bransford says
(ok, I called it a hobby, but then I built caveats on that thought and said that it’s more.)
Marilyn Peake says
Anon @ 6:08 P.M. said:
“So einstein basically became a professional scientist at the age of 26 by getting his theories published. He took a different route, but was sstill only 26 by the time he was pro. So I wouldn’t use him as an example.”
I mentioned Einstein in this conversation because the science book I’ve been reading specifically mentioned how hard the scientific community fought to disprove his initial theories. Scientists didn’t consider him a “real” scientist because he developed his early theories before he had the usual academic credentials or a paid job as a scientist. The scientific community only changed their minds when the science of his theories proved irrefutable. Since that time, Einstein’s early theories have been used as the basis for many other groundbreaking discoveries. Kinda interesting. I just happen to think it’s a mistake to conflate “good” or “real” with “money-making”. Just my personal opinion.
On an off-topic positive note, I’d like to say that the books I’m reading are fascinating! This week, I read about the scientific discovery in which scientists discovered that light can be slowed down and stopped within something called a Bose-Einstein Condensate. This is huge, since it was believed that speed of light is always 186,000 miles per second, and time – or at least our perception of time – is very closely related to light. I’m having the most fun doing research for fiction-writing than I’ve had in a very long time!
Anonymous says
I do think of myself as a writer not only because I’m a published magazine writer/journalist but because I write as a full-time occupation. Yes, I do identify myself as a writer but I don’t tell many poeple because they assume I only write novels or for newspapers. Still, I think it’s a lot more interesting conversation starter than being, say, a dentist! (Sorry, dentists)
If I become a published novelist, I hope I can author to my list. We should feel proud to call ourselves writers, not embarassed or insecure.
Marilyn Peake says
Nathan said:
“(ok, I called it a hobby, but then I built caveats on that thought and said that it’s more.)”
This is a really interesting discussion, Nathan! It’s fun to explore the nature of art in an in-depth discussion, kind of like being in a classroom discussion on the Internet. 🙂
Michelle Sagara says
What do you think? Is it realistic to think that something so time-intensive and personal can be placed in a more hermetically sealed mental box?I think, judging from the number of posts on this topic, the answer is: No. It’s not realistic. I think people are feeling defensive in the same way as agents felt defensive when #agentfail started, because frankly, I read most of 250 posts, and I thought they were all rather tame; the agents seemed to feel they were hugely vitriolic.
Writing as hobby is not writing for publication. Writing for publication takes — as I’m sure you know — a different kind of dedication; it’s the same trouble any artist has when they attempt to make a business out of a creative process.
You can separate the business aspects of the writing from the writing itself — but how people view the act of writing is, and should be, considered separately from that. What you can say is that people who publicly, intensively, identify with something so personal to the exclusion of all else is not healthy — but that’s the TMI factor.
And it seems likely to me that were those people talking to someone else — i.e. not an agent, not a writer — they would, in fact, be talking about something else.
Just my two cents.
Maxwell Cynn says
I for one am not “willfully misreading” what you posted. Your comments seem to present a lack of sensitivity and even dismissal of the art of writing. I take you at your word that this was not your intention. Yet not realizing that your comments would have suc an effect might tell you that perhaps you do need to be more thoughtful.
You have a very good blog here. I follow it and will continue to do so. As I pointed out earlier, however, this sort of perceived attitude is what causes bad feelings between writers and agents.
I am sure we writers are guilty as well – of over sensitivity to our own plight and lack there of toward the plight of agents.
enjoy your evening,
max
Anonymous says
Holy smokes Batman, I finally have it!
Nathan, some people who read your blog… think you are specifically talking directly to them… and about them…in every instance… that explains the defensiveness.
If someone earns a living writing and he/she works at it all day, then, obviously, writing is a career for them and not a hobby.
However, if a writer thinks he would die if he were to step away from the writing…. If he thinks his life would be over… then he needs to step away, just step away… and he’ll discover that there is air and life after writing.
Holy sweet potato, people! Most of us have been here with Nathan for sometime… and we should know him well enough to give him the benefit of the doubt concerning his sincerity toward us – writers -.
Nathan, whether any of them appreciate it or not, I apologize on behalf of those of us who know you well enough to get the meaning behind the message! (You know what I mean ;=))
Jen C says
First, Hilary, Jen thinks we should all post exclusively in third person from now on.
Marilyn Peake said…
I’m having the most fun doing research for fiction-writing than I’ve had in a very long time!
Research is the most fun part, isn’t it? BTW, why don’t you have your own blog??? I keep thinking “oh that’s interesting, I’ll go over to your blog and comment further…” but then remember that you don’t have one!
Nathan, I am always amazed at your patience when answering (oft repetitive) blog comments. You’ll have to teach me that trick sometime…
Anonymous says
I would imagine that identifying with only a single thing and clinging to it for a sense of self is a very lonely place eventually.