SAN FRANCISCO, CA – According to numerous sources around the Internet and my Inbox, the popular site Authonomy has been attacked by what appears to be a flash mob led by someone codenamed Klazart, which is overwhelming Authonomy servers and distressing numerous Authonomy followers.
According to reader John Minichillo, Klzart is the author of the book LESSER SINS. The novel quickly rose to the top Authonomy’s rankings in only a few days, backed by the author’s legion of fans, who were spurred to log in and vote for it via a YouTube video.
Authonomy employs a user-generated method of ranking titles, and theoretically the ones who generate the most esteem from other members of the ardently passionate community rise to the top, where they are supposedly reviewed by Harper UK editors.
Blog commenter Trashy Cowgirl sums up thusly: “A group of gamers following a guy who calls himself Klazart, flashmobbed the site. He is backed by 880 people, and on 233 watchlists. He is now ranked ninth. Not bad considering he only posted his ms on the 19th. Of course the flood managed to jam the site and create an enormous uproar.”
Such a big uproar, apparently, that as of this writing I can’t even open the Authonomy website.
According to Minichillo, Klazart is popular in the Internet gaming community for “narrating videos of Starcraft tournaments and popular players.”
Further research conducted by your intrepid reporter shows that Startcraft is apparently a video game. Who knew!
Klazart’s actions apparently caused Authonomy’s zealous nongaming followers to go completely bananas in the forums.
Is this the future of user-generated aggregators or will this be a hiccup along the way? Should we begrudge Mr. Klazart his Starcraft-backed following?
Stay tuned.
UPDATE: “Klazart” weighed in in the comments section. His real name is Vineet and he’s a nice guy. It wasn’t a flash mob per se, and Authonomy’s shutdown doesn’t seem to be (or at least shouldn’t be) related to his followers joining the site. Authonomy posted a statement clarifying matters and confirming that Klazart/Vineet didn’t break any rules.
Anon @ 6:19 P.M. –
When a big publishing company sets up a site like Authonomy and a writer plays by the rules to send lots of traffic its way, isn’t it just one more way to get started as a writer? I’m not saying anything here about Authonomy itself, just remembering back to what it was like when I was trying so hard to figure out where to go with my work as a newbie writer.
TSR was the original owner/proprietor/creator of D&D (through Gary Gygax) – bought out by WotC – I've outed myself now 🙂
I wouldn’t call this strategy innovative. Maybe pointless, but not innovative. Several people tried similar tactics in each of the Gather First Chapters contests. It’s an obvious tactic. Authonomy has apparently run into it multiple times. They set up the Talent Spotter Rating (TSR) system to make that sort of thing more difficult. Ratings from newbies are close to, but not quite worthless, while ratings from people who have been there a while and participated are worth much more.
That system probably works pretty well in most cases. Two or three hundred newbys voting for someone would have minimal impact. The problem here was the sheer number of people. Last time I checked though, even 1028 people coming to the site and backing him hadn’t pushed Vaneet into the top 5. He’s sitting at number 6. Each increment in the rankings gets harder. It may take several hundred more backers to get him to the top 5 and keep him there until the end of the month.
The whole exercise seems pointless to me. How many real book sales does 1000 or 1500 people willing to spend 5 minutes on a website translate to? Fifty? A hundred? Maybe a hundred and fifty at the most optimistic? That’s probably not enough to make Harper Collins do the kind of editing this book would need. So the book lands on an editor’s desk. They read a few paragraphs, get a sour expression on their faces and give the manuscript to some intern to finish up and write a review on. That’s not a big payback for the amount of time this took and the number of Authonomy people he hacked off.
That being said, he did bring quite a few new people to Authonomy and people there should make them feel welcome if they want to stick around and participate.
Kirk Lazarus would probably disapprove, but I’ve gone full nerd here – but for more info on the 1st TSR (Tactical Studies Rules), check out the end all be all of factoidation at wped – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSR,_Inc.
Nathan, a month or two ago when you posted about the rabidity of authonomites, I didn’t get it. After today, I get it.
Okay now i’m feeling behind the times. I’m not a “gamer” and I’m afraid to become one for fear I would miss my children growing up. lol.
Authonomy seems like a great idea in theory, I’m just not sold on it. It seems like it should be a great marketing tool pre-publishing (I have no idea how it would help post-publishing since I’m not a member) but if people are just ranking someone regardless of seeing their work…then what if less-than-par or par work is getting pushed to the front and the ones that sitting on a masterpiece are still waiting months out because of the traffic jam, so to speak?
It’s a great idea. I believe that. I just don’t see it working unless there were “policing” as someone posted earlier. There has to be some anonymity (on both sides) to the grading process for there to be merit in my opinion.
Hope it’s O.K. for me to mention this here. I just happened to think of it, and am excited over all the gaming talk here. I recently edited and compiled two books of articles about writing and acting. One of the books includes an article by Michael A. Ventrella, lawyer, author and one of the first creators of the original live action role-playing games. Later writing novels based on his own LARP game, he found it such a difficult task turning the games into novel format, he wrote an article, Basing Your Novel on a Game: What, are you stupid? for the book, Inside Scoop: Articles about Acting and Writing by Hollywood Insiders and Published Authors. I had a blast compiling and editing that book!
Nathan said: “I do find it an interesting possible preview of the future. It will be chaotic until all of this is worked out.”
Kata.
That’s Indonesian for “word.”
I used to think that excellent storytelling will rise to surface. Now I’m not so sure. In the future, it seems that other things will make the story buoyant to the public eye.
In other words, the storytelling will be devalued as other valuations come in play.
Bane – thanks for the info. I “outted” myself, too. It’s good to be out of the closet. I feel free. 🙂
Marilyn, that’s a funny title -sounds like it would be a fun book to edit.
There seems no point trying desperately to make the ‘editors’ desk’ when in fact, the books Harper Collins has chosen to actually publish were not in the top five at all.
We’re better off using Authonomy as a place to gain constructive criticism rather than playing it as a game, I think. However, for those who do enjoy the gaming aspect of it… Why not!?
111 comments wow, must be alot of Authonomites on here. People have gone Bat Sh&*% crazy on the forums. I am trying to ride it out because thus far it has been a constructive site, and helpful with much needed edits
WS
Haktaw Heart
I’ve been thinking about this whole thing, and this might sound strange coming from me, but I think that HC should do away with the rankings entirely.
The rankings are a good way to boost the site’s visibility, attract other people and perhaps find authors with established platforms and fanbases.
However, if they are looking to unearth talent, then I would propose the following system.
No rankings, no TSRs. Instead, a HC Editor/reader/representative, will take a look at the first 500-1000 words of your MS after 3 months. And maybe give you (even a couple of lines of) helpful feedback. I mean that’s the typical turnaround time in most slush piles anyway.
Authonomy could even identify skilled readers in the community and hire some of them (after careful vetting) to be the first review step. I’m sure most would be happy to do this for even a nominal fee. (Kinda like Amazon Vine reviewers, I guess).
That way, we won’t have a situation of people backing each other or giving fake feedback simply to climb the endless ladder.
Authors will put up their work on the site, and read/review/crit/edit. When they are happy that it is ready to be looked at professionally, they can click an “Activate submission” button, which will put them in a queue. Within 3 months they get some feedback and a yay/nay.
Additionally, you could also have an “elite committee” of community members, maybe a circle of 5 or 6 writers that each month pick their top 5 to 10 manuscripts to highlight. Getting highlighted won’t do anything other than increasing the visibility, but it might serve as a pointer for lurking agents/editors, and at the very least, will help garner more feedback.
I’m sure there is a lot more that can be done to take advantage of the interactivity of the internet to modernise and improve the slush pile system, but I feel this would be a decent start.
Vineet – I’m not an Authonomy person but that all sounds pretty good to me.
How about “Authonomy Marauded”? Covers a multitude of possibilities, including gamers dressed as Vikings!
I have emails this morning from writers leaving authonomy because they believe HC has pretty much obliterated the notion of fair play.
People who’ve invested time and talent on the site for several months are especially disappointed. Some are considering forming their own writers/readers site. It may not have the pull of a large publishing house, but ya never know…
Vineet,
Well done, good going, Keep it up.
What the fess is all about?
Someone mentioned fan following on myspace. uhm erm.. those blogs are regressive from even my Asian grandmom’s point of view and they damn sell on myspace.
I was one of the first people to talk to Nathan about authonomy last year.
I had an account there for two months, met a few really great people in the forums with whom I still keep in touch, and got lots of feedback for Servicing the Pole, the stripper novel I’ve been serialising online. In January I cancelled my account for a variety of reasons – the most compelling one being that authonomy is a giant time-suck and I wanted to get some work done on my next project this year. 🙂
I’ve never regretted my departure. A lot of the people on the site were already resorting to petty fighting and name-calling while I was still there, and I’ve heard this got a lot worse before Klazart ever showed up. I was already dismayed that so few people involved with the site seemed to think professional behaviour was in order. And I was astonished by how little the community at large seemed to know about either marketing or technology.
I think what Klazart (Vineet) did may ultimately help to bring authonomy into the 21st century. He’s brought new eyeballs to the site, eyeballs that know their way around the protocols of social networking. And I don’t begrudge him the shortcut he found – one that, let’s face it – most people are looking for.
I’ve also read his book’s synopsis. It looks like he might have a workable story and some marketing know-how. If I was an agent or a publisher, I’d probably snap him up this instant, set him up with the most appropriate editor I could find to get his story into publishable shape, and most importantly, let him lead his own marketing effort.
Vineet, if you’re still keeping track of these comments, I would love to interview you for my blog. It mostly focuses on the future of publishing, but has been dark for several months now. If you’re so inclined, you’re invited to help me pull up the shades.
Lauri
Lauri Shaw, Its a deal. I’m Vineet’s agent…
I feel led to comment…finally. I’ve been lurking for a long time.
Still, all of this is just…insane.
Writers are so…what’s the word…ah, yes – petulant.
And I get it, we all want our work to be read. We all want that holy grail of publication (or, for some, just having an agent would do.)
As soon as I read this post, I chuckled – already imagining the grumblings of writers being all, “How unfair. My ms was reviewed by the local paper!”
Again, I get it! I’m in the same boat. But, c’mon! Maybe everybody should just count to 10 and spend the time we’re complaining – and call this a wild idea – writing.
Okay, nice to meet everyone.
Purple Clover, I share your skepticism on Authonomy’s model. I have some experience there, and as far as I can tell, books are backed by authors doing the leg work (asking that you read their stuff, and when it’s closer to crunch time, back their stuff unread) and making themselves known in the forums which are filled with threads started for this book or that. So there is networking involved, lots of mutual support, but no real push up the ladder by anonymous, un-preconditioned forces. I think that’s where the model falls short, and what might prove it to be more of a loose indicator that may or may not be effectively productive as a real slush buster.
That said, someone raiding the site for a sudden push might just get a look. HC are looking for a legitimate filtering process. Whether this person can prove that his following represent a legit filtering sample is another story.
vineet 1:42
ironically, what you describe is starting to sound like the traditional publishing system.
nona-
That’s exactly what I was thinking.
I checked out the Authonomy web site and I’m not sure what it sees as its primary benefit for writers.
Is it a chance to be published? I think that’s the carrot they’re dangling, but they don’t really come out and say that will happen. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if your book gets the HC editors’ attention, all you’ll get is a critique of your first 10,000 words. Granted, that may be worthwhile in itself, but it’s not a publishing contract.
Is it a chance to get your book critiqued? I imagine that entails all the usual pitfalls of critique groups. How helpful are the critiques? How much of it is constructive criticism that can offer realistic suggestions on how it can be improved? How many authors offer a scathing criticism of a book that’s ranked ahead of them in order to improve their own book’s ranking?
Is it a chance to build a pre-existing readership for your book once it’s published? If I put my entire novel on their site and it is eventually published one day, how many Authonomy readers will buy the book? They’ve already read it.
What Vineet has done is not that different from the tactics used by Vince Flynn. He self-published, then encouraged everyone he knew to buy his book. He used the sales numbers to persuade bookstores to carry his book and the whole thing snowballed. Now he has an agent and the whole nine yards. Of course, you have to have a product that people will want to buy. Vineet’s writing is not bad, although he does a lot of telling. I have bought books in airport stores far less readable than his, so who knows what will happen? The Authonomy system was begging for something like this to happen. Beware of unintended consequences.
Ultimately I feel Klazart did nothing wrong. I’m a fellow Authonomite, but my opinion for the site soured a week before this happened when I realized it IS a popularity contest.
Granted he achieved this quick success in an unconventional manner, but according to Authonomy’s FAQ’s, they encourage you to tell your friends who can register and back your book. Some Authonomy Elite feel these army of “sock puppets” are invalid and therefore one’s work is not valid, because THEY don’t agree with the opinion.
I’ve found writers brow-beating fellow authors to “read and shelve” and chasing folks for unsolicited reciprocation of “backing”.
Even more troubling I was bothered that people who moved in this aggressive fashion, with lots of motivation and ambition didn’t quite have the talent – but yet were on the editor’s desk. Or, offer drive-by backing only so that you would do the same with no regard to actual review.
All in all, Authonomy was a nice idea, but having been on the site for over a month and discovering the flaws in which rankings can easily be gamed — which Klazart and his army have exposed, I’m moving on to Writers Wrule.
I had hoped Authonomy would offer the opportunity to learn and, with the multiple talents there, offer guidance so I can better my craft but those hopes were quickly dashed with the above circumstances. I never expected to be on the editor’s desk with Authonomy, but I did expect more than an exercise in marketing tactics.
Writers Wrule is a much more comprehensive, interactive tool and resource for writers wanting to be stronger and better at what they love to do–write.
Scott said…
Speaking of publishing of another sort, my former employer, the Ann Arbor News, announced today that it’s ceasing publication in July after 174 years on watch. It’s a sad, sad day.
The death of newspapers is not a good thing for our Democracy, folks.
Wow. I had noticed it getting smaller and thinner.
However, I have to comment that the AANew, like so many other newspapers over the past few decades, went from locally written to imported AP articles.
IMHO, I liked the locally driven papers so much and the AP driven ones, where every newspaper seems the same, turned me off enough to not bother subscribing locally.
And, actually, I used to subscribe to out of town papers to get a feel of their local flavor.It made me feel a part of the community, even from a distance.
As an Authonomy member I wanted to share a clarification for those who are not in there day-to-day. The majority of members are honest, thoughtful critiquers who don’t wish to back what they haven’t read, who sincerely wish to help other members of the community rise to their potential.
I have seen this firsthand by almost everyone who has backed my book. I can tell you that I posted one plug in the forums on my book but mostly I just read the books by people who message me kindly for reciprocal reads. I don’t back anything I haven’t read. And I always critique, sometimes leaving very detailed comments/edits in the hope of seeing that writer’s book on the store shelf someday.
There will always be those who wish to get ahead regardless of consequences. There will always be those who enjoy controversy. Eventually, I believe the selfless, honest, and kind souls that make up the majority of Authonomy will bring the site back to rights. Isn’t that what most fiction is about: good prevailing?
I, for one, would love to invite Nathan Bransford’s readers over to Authonomy. Ya’ll are wonderful people, great writers, and consummate professionals. It would be a privilege to have you.
~Cheri
Cheri, may I ask if you’ve ever read a member’s book and had them read yours, offered and received thoughtful comments, but decided not to back their book for one reason or the other?
I enjoyed my time at Authonomy for the most part, and liked the forums as a place to share info and opinions on writing, but it seems like the system is more about bartering a backing for a read and vice versa rather than backing a book that you feel truly deserves it. Both happen, I’m sure, but the one seems to dilute the other.
Going in, it is obviously a popularity contest. Anyone there has to be able to disassociate from the bad and concentrate on the good they can find there. I have met some fantastic people and just a couple of as- h—s. So far, the good has won me over. Just don’t think of it as a chance to get published. Enjoy it as a place to meet others in the same boat you are in.
I think it might have been on this blog that someone pointed out HarperCollins’ slogan at the top of the Authonomy site: We’re on a mission to flush out the brightest, freshest new writing talent around. Now, that there ain’t quite right. Perhaps, after they find their bright, fresh new writers, they could ask them to write a new slogan. Every time I read that slogan, I’m sorry, but I always think of a large toilet bowl, and some really fresh, potty-mouthed writers. 🙂
Hi Scott,
Nice to see you here. Yes, there are many books I’ve not backed. Often, if I see promise, I’ll tell them to check back with me after revisions. At that point, if the writing is better executed, I am usually happy to back it.
But I’ve had a better experience than some at Authonomy because I don’t choose to join in the fighting–I’ve never been very good at arguments anyway. =)
~Cheri
You know, I had commented without reading everyone else’s comments first.
Now that I have, I just want to point out @Jan, that this was my worry about “popularity contests”. Worrying over a talent-spotter ranking (TSR) shouldn’t be anyone’s main focus of Authonomy. I agree with Vineet’s solution – return the concept back into traditional publishing.
No one’s sole expectation should be that coveted spot on the Editor’s desk, but while we’re all there working together, why not help each other out with thoughtful feedback?
I was disappointed with some reviews of fellow Authonomites of my stuff because it proved they weren’t reading, weren’t focused and certainly were only reciprocating b/c they asked me to back their book first.
Perhaps I came in at a wrong time (been there for about 6 weeks) but, I have yet to see the type of “souls” and “prevailing good” Cheri and others have said resides there.
What I see is distributive bargaining and aggressive marketing–which, if it works for them and makes them happy, more power to them. But, I’m taking my work to a different site where it is thoughtfully looked over and used as a resource and a tool to help me make a stronger manuscript.
Nathan, this might be bit off line, but I’m wondering in a fiction, IF I chose to use the real people for few characters in the story, would I be inviting some law suits down the road? What’s the best way to deal with it? Is there a web site discussing such matter?
Thanks
anon-
I’m not a publishing attorney, so I really can’t be offering legal advice on that.
Hey Nathan,
I always imagined that white object in front of you in your picture to be your surfboard, which I thought was pretty cool.
California guy and all.
Now I think it’s someone’s arm.
But if you ever post another pic, (and I’m not saying you should cause this a great pic),
I would love to see you with your (a??) surfboard!
Or (brainstorm! lightbulb!)you could photoshop one in where the arm is!! Viola!
anon-
That’s actually my wife’s arm. (I won’t tell her you said she looks like a surfboard.)
And I don’t surf! I’m a farmboy!
Oh dear! So very sorry!
Let me backtrack, please.
That’s a very fetching arm in that picture! Don’t change a thing!
(beating head senselessly against desktop)
word verification: stoph
Lions and tigers and bears… Oh my!
LOL
Love the voice in this post!
No comment on the source material.
Nathan,
You haven’t lived until you’ve surfed on a tobbogan behind a horse.
To those who think Autho has always been about gaming,
Yes, for some. And some actually make the desk. I’ve read two that had no business there at all. But, we’re not all like that. I back less than half of the mss I read, to be honest, though I give detailed feedback. My criteria is: Do I think an editor or agent would request a full. If I don’t, I don’t back. And, guess what? I stayed between #37 and #45 for about four months (I’m floating into oblivion now, but I’m not too worried). Anyway, it isn’t all mass backing, though you’ll find it in good measure.
Also, anyone who sinks all of their hopes and dreams into a few hundred word review from an editor who works for a house that probably isn’t the right fit for you has got a long way to go before they are going to make it. The only writer who has been asked to resubmit (to my knowledge) got there by the merit of his brilliant ms. He only logged on a couple of times a week. A lesson there.
Well, the snow is still falling here, so maybe I should dig out the tobbogan out.
It will be interesting to see what happens at the end of the month:
Whether Klazza will actually make the editor desk with this tactic that HC admire so much.
If so, will HC will allocate his 10k of ms to a good editor, knowing it will be read by thousands (some HC reviews in the past looked like they’d been thought up by the tea lady).
And then will they be prepared to stand behind their own policy of “Popularity Counts for Everything.” Could Lesser Sins be the first ms ever to be plucked from the monthly top five and published?
Will a copycat group be along before the end of the month and do it better than Vineet’s mob and bounce him out? I bet HC will be encouraging that! Imagine the publicity! It’d even be worth organising it themselves. (You can see why Vineet is keen to encourage the site changes!)
I think Vineet went into this a little naively. He really believed the HC hype about the editorial review being worth something and he didn’t seem to imagine there might be a backlash from the community who was already there playing the Authonogame the way they thought Harper Collins wanted.
I really feel for that community who thought they were working towards something only to find out that anything goes and all their thoughtful critiquing and building followers within that community was worthless. It’s time they won’t get back. I think they’re well and truly entitled to be grumpy generally and at Harper Collins. Don’t tar them all with the wanker brush, please.
Marilyn Peake, so true, what you say but the authonomy slogan!
HC should say, “We’re on a mission to flush.” Period.
Here is a perfect example of how Authonomy is suppose to work. StirlingEditor has read and commented on my story. She gave very helpful critique that has improved my work. She did not back my work as she didn’t feel it was quite there yet. I read her story, to me it read like quality work so I did back her work.
There was no back scratching involved. Her book was more polished than mine. She earned my backing and I gained help with my writing.
As for the(TSR)talent spotter ranking. It is just a number showing our talent at spotting good books.
Most of us are not that interested in making it to the editors desk, though we are proud of our rankings.
The site is very good for anyone wanting to improve their writing skills.
Jan
Sorry, but a “nice guy” would never do something like this.
I don’t think it’s over. Vineet’s mob pulled a prank. They’re not pranksters, they’re gamers. Surely that’s going to upset the real internet pranksters: 4chan/Anonymous.
Before the month is out we may really see what it means to have a site rolled by pranksters. HC may get more “publicity” than they can handle.
Nathan, there’s nothing “hilarious” about what this guy did. The rest of us played by the rules and had our work undermined.
I did try Authonomy for a while, but didn’t have the time for all the networking required to obtain readers. The “I’ll do you if you do me” didn’t seem quite honest to me. After all if you give someone an honest review, but telling them their chapters need work you can bet fault will be found in your own work. I belong to another website where reviews are assigned randomly, no networking required. This latest bit doesn’t surprize me, the site has has similar problems in the past.
SterlingEditor:
“As an Authonomy member I wanted to share a clarification for those who are not in there day-to-day. The majority of members are honest, thoughtful critiquers who don’t wish to back what they haven’t read, who sincerely wish to help other members of the community rise to their potential.”
Really? Then I suggest you read this:
Dear Harper Collins,
I would like to bring your attention to the illegal and unethical activities of one of Authonomy’s members: Username “Stef Nalton”.
As you have stated in your official statements, Klazart was within the rules of the site and has done nothing wrong. Mr. Nalton on the other hand has capitalized on his high TSR ranking and spent the last few days artificially inflating the rankings of the top 5 books in order to keep “Lesser Sins” at #6.
Mr. Nalton has spammed every Authonomy user with a proposal to back their book if they will back any of the top 5 books. This is an example of the type of message he has been leaving:
“Hi Sherry, due to the blitzkrieg on the site by over a thousand fans of the #6 book author, i was garnering support for two of the books on the Ed’s desk to help nullify the effect they were having. This has been successful but has now demoted “The Shadows Map” (which is on my shelf – click on my usename to access it) If you haven’t read it, and do so now, let me know if you back it and I shall give your book a boost with my #2 TSR vote. No probs if you’re not interested. All the best, stef nalton.”
His messages to users are generally a variation of this:
“Let me know if you backed these books and I shall support you in return (I’m the Number 1 talent spotter so my vote would help your book’s position somewhat).”
This underhanded bribery of other users in order to manipulate the ranking system is clearly unethical and a violation of Authonomy’s terms of service and in my humble opinion, he should be banned from the site.
Incidentally, if you are wondering how his proposals have been received this is the reply from Ms. Sherry:
“Hey, I’m really new to this game. You need to explain to me what you want me to do. And to quite frank, I’ll be happy to screw up that other guys ratings, just like he did to everyone else. I have a question, if I back a book, then remove it does this affect it’s ratings? Or do they stay the same?”
Are the majority of Authonomy members really honest? They don’t seem to be much above accepting bribes just so their own books can be backed. A quick view of Stef Nalton’s messages is evidence of that.
This is just so juvenile!
(Nathan, I bet you had no inkling you’d be getting so much mileage out of Authonomy!)
This addresses the post dated March 27 @ 6:39AM…
Dear Anonymous,
I find it intriguing that in your post you are naming names and citing posts. Yet, you choose to remain… anonymous? Why the cloak? Are hiding something.. someone??
For the record I have left Authonomy and enough said. But can we all please have the grit to stand up to be counted if we feel so strongly about a particular issue?