Reader Lauri Shaw pointed me to the website Authonomy, which I had not become acquainted with even though I remember hearing about its launch.
Authonomy is, basically, a manuscript ranking system combined with social networking, and it’s backed by Harper UK, who is hoping to use it to find gems among the books that have become the most popular. With its different features, user-generated content and much more, Authonomy feels very much like the future. Here’s what I want to know: is it?
In a brave new world swimming in e-books and manuscripts, are user-generated ranking systems the way the best books will rise to the top? Is a masses-governed system better than the (supposed) expert-driven system that has ruled for the last two hundred years? Is this, frankly, going to work? Or is it going to favor those who best game the system?
And yes Harper, I do intend to collect that free toaster for plugging the site.
I haven’t checked it in depth… but from what I’ve heard, it seems likely to serve those who play the game the best, who know the ins and outs and who know how to get people to click on their story. I could be wrong, but it seems more about working the system than letting your writing stand on its own two feet. And, to me, it’s all about the writing. Again, though, I’m clearly no expert, and I’m curious what people will say, particularly those who might have experience with this odd submission/vetting process. I’d also be curious to see if the experiment is bearing any fruit. Is the publisher actually acquiring books this way? What’s the relative quality of stories on the sight, and how hard is it to find them? Who knows, maybe the next Stephen King is going to pop out of the masses through a system like this. I fear, though, that the people who are gonna get noticed are the ones who understand the politics rather than the ones who write the best stories. It would be nice to be proved wrong, though…
Thanks for the link to the interesting site. We live in a time overly abundant with information, entertainment, and books so a system like authonomy may be one of the best ways to allow the best, or most popular, to bubble to the top.
Question: if one’s book is polished and ready should one wait until after the holidays to query?
Thanks-
Renee
I also wonder what the considerations are in terms of audience… does the audience of people “vetting” these stories in any way represent the general reading public? Is it mostly fellow wishful writers doing the reading? Would you need vast public appraisal of stories to make it in any way accurate? And if vast numbers read the stories, will they buy the books afterward? A brave new world…
anon-
Avoid the weeks before and after major holidays (and, if you can help it, when you know an agent is on vacation). But otherwise, go for it.
When I go into a bookstore, I expect to find books that have passed the slush pile. There are many professionals who have read and vetted it before it gets to me. As a book buyer, I like it this way. Sure, the system is flawed, (very flawed in many ways) but when I get to Borders, I always find tons of books I want to buy, so in that sense the system works well.
So, if I have a choice of reading finished books in the stores or reading slush, which am I going to choose? I just can’t understand, in the limited reading time that I have, why I would choose to read slush.
Nope, that’s Nathan’s job.
Seems to me to leave too much open for “voter fruad”. This sort of thing happens with EBay customer ankings system all the time. Once they publish a few books that tank even though they were rated highly on the site will dispell this practice.
Regardless of the voice of the masses, a book should be vetted by gatekeepers who can control quality and content.
That reminds me too much of an American Idol-esque contest – and really, how many of those winners were in any way memorable? It seems like it would turn out to be more of a popularity contest than anything else. That’s not to say that there’s not a place for a system like that, but not at the expense of the current system.
I’ve still got that recent study by the sociologist on my mind, where it was determined that perceived popularity increases something’s popularity.
In other words: everyone wants on the hot bandwagon.
So no, I don’t think that sites like this will help the cream rise to the top. I think that people who are willing to look for what THEY like without being told what they like will help that happen.
I could be wrong, but it seems more about working the system than letting your writing stand on its own two feet.
I agree with Bryan. The winners are the ones who can whip up the most support. Would you, Nathan, want to pick your clients the same way?
Thanks for this post! I’ve been following authonomy for a few months now, but have been ambivalent about whether to become active on it or not. So many blogs to follow, so little time…
I signed up for Autonomy when it was first launched and decided, for now, to not post anything or read any submissions. I think the system of having to find what I would be interested in reading and providing honest feedback difficult given past experiences. I’ve belonged to things similar to Autonomy and I think it’s best served for people who 1) Have a good writing sample, and 2) Spend enough times befriending people on forums to read their work.
I find that in the amount of time I spend doing 2 I could write another manuscript. That being said, any avenue to get a writer noticed, and writers can meet other like minded writers, I consider a success. I suspect with economy more people will write (see Nathan’s Tuesday post “Will Write for Food”) and there will be less avenues for our writing. Something like Authonomy is a good idea. I’ll just wait until I have more time to dedicate to Forums and reading other’s work before I join myself.
— Amy
I took a look at this and didn’t like it much.
Speaking as a writer, it seems to me to offer a great opportunity to have 10,000 words of your stuff plagiarised unecessarily. Or ignored. Or praised by imbeciles. Or worse.
As a reader, I hardly have enough time to trawl through what’s already on the shelves, let alone what isn’t. In this respect, it’s too much of a peer-moderated hinterland for me to wade through with my pickaxe.
This seems like what the SF magazine Jim Baen’s Universe does. They have a bulletin board system where users critique each others’ works and then the editors cherry pick the best. I have a fried who has done it, and it sounds ferociously Darwinian in practice.
Sites like this worry me, especially when it comes to primary publishing rights and plagiarism.
This is the first I’m hearing of this, but I don’t like what I hear. I like to think of myself as a good reader, but I wouldn’t want to waste my time reading all these manuscripts online because most of what I read is not going to be worth my time. So, I don’t see the user ratings being very telling of the quality of the work.
I’ve never heard of this website. It sounds really great Nathan, thanks for the plug! Now you better get that toaster, because it’s definitely gotten me to wanna check it out. Now as far as it being the wave of the future, I actually think it willl be. It’s good for author’s who have a hard time getting their foot in the door with agents, and I think it’s a great way to get your work out into the public and critiqued. And as a bonus, you could possibly get a publishing deal, and then you would already have a fanbase because of the website. But it does also seem more like an alternative to the traditional publishing format. Hm, I guess it all depends; if this works, then agents might be out of a job. But then you could blog all day Nathan 🙂
Ugh. Okay, disclosure: I participated in the Gather First Chapters contest. It an was absolutely miserable experience, unless of course you like having writing contests played like some version of “Literary Survivor.” The good stuff by and large did not rise to the top; contestants sabotaged other entries and used sockpuppets to rank their stuff up and competitors’ stuff down. I felt like, this contest makes books and reading, one of the few forms of expression left that encourages thought and imagination and focus, into just another least common denominator circus.
Sooo, my immediate response would be, “nuh-uh.” But maybe I should spend some time with the writing on the site and report back.
The idea of a book finding an audience before publication is not all that new. It is how Charles Dickens became, well, Dickens. His serializations were eagerly awaited and gave readers the concept of the cliff hanger. The very last thing that we as writers should do is to marry ourselves to a single form of communication. Video games, comics, movies, television programs all begin with the written word. 100 years from now books may look different, but the creativity required to go from beginning, no sagging in the middle, dramatic end, well that will require what it has always required: a writer. . . unless computers become self aware. As for Authonomy. I like it. New media is not the enemy. Holding on to the old ways while everything around us changes for the better, that is the enemy. There are other social network blogs for writers out there. The trick to being successful is to somehow create communities that are willing and interested in reading these books. Success could very well hinge on getting family members to “vote” a book up.
I joined up after a couple of weeks of deciding back in October. I posted the first 15k words to get over the initial 10k needed to make a public book and added a couple more chapters in the middle of last month. I’m “ranked” 748 and have lost 60 pts this week, whatever that means. I haven’t read any other manuscripts, or tried to make any connections as I really don’t have the time to devote to it.
The link to my “book” is https://authonomy.com/ViewBook.aspx?bookid=2714 if you’re interested in seeing someone’s profile that could give you feedback, but I really don’t want to push my book on you or anything. I’m not actively putting it out yet as it’s only half written anyway. So, you know, no pressure. 🙂
At the end of every month, the top five rated books get passed on to an editor’s desk. The few times i’ve seen the “ranks” shuffle so much that you could spend every waking hour shoving your book around only to be usurped at the last moment and have to start all over. I’m not sure this is the best way to go about finding new work.
On the other end though, if no one gave it a go we’d have no way of knowing if it would work or not. I’m satisfied with the security measures (disallowing copy/paste, etc) and i’m happy to be part of the trials.
I think it’s going to favor those who best game the system, quite similar to AI, DWTS, and any other fan based situation. The best singer or dancer does not always win the competition. The person most voted for, i.e., the one with the biggest fan base, often wins the competition.
Another problem, if the person critiquing the work isn’t a fan of that genre, than does their critique count? Is it a valid critique? In my opinion, no!
Lastly – while we all might hope that only the best books get published and arrive on the shelves in Borders; the reality of the situation is that even crap books make it to the shelves of Borders. More than once I have bought a promising book only to find it was crap wrapped in a nice looking package. SIGH!
Regarding queries: “Avoid the weeks before and after major holidays”
So, two weeks after Thanksgiving is Dec. 11th, but that date is also two weeks before Christmas.
So, nothing until after Jan. 14th?
In related e-book news – the WSJ reports that the kindle is sold out through Feb.
I guess I don’t understand. Do you upload your manuscript for people to read? That seems slightly risky to me. There’s another site like that called webook.com
I gave Authonomy a shot in October, posting three of my novels. I thought, “Great, I’ll just ask people who read my books on my site to go over there and vote.”
But then they changed the rules and started ranking the reviewers as well as the books. The more books you vote for that are ranked high, the higher your reviewer rank. And since most of my readers had no interest in reading any other books on Authonomy, their votes didn’t carry much weight.
So, I gave up and removed my books. I don’t think HarperCollins is serious about finding new writers via Authonomy.
The last time I checked, there were over 1,000 books on the site. I doubt that many people would be will to slosh through them looking for that 2-3% of good ones.
My advice: don’t waste your time.
Robert Burton Robinson
In case you haven’t already caught this, Victoria Strauss at Writer Beware went into some detail on the pros and cons of Authonomy. https://accrispin.blogspot.com/2008/09/victoria-strauss-authonomy-slushkiller.html
My take: it’s a valid mechanism for beginning to separate the wheat from the chaff. Note, however, that the top selections are then examined by professional editors before being considered for publication. It seems to be an attempt to create a massive, self-sorting slush pile. The problem lies in the criteria by which it sorts itself: aside from being open to abuses, popularity in a small audience consisting of writers is no guarantee of either quality.or popularity in a larger audience composed of plumbers, housewives, geeks and a billion other demographics.
If my livelihood were dependent upon finding good salable books, I think I’d want to be the one to filter the incoming manuscripts to make sure I don’t miss stuff that’ll keep me turning pages all night.
But then, that’s just me and not everyone thinks the way I do. For which I’m grateful.
(Word verification: corks. That’s the first time I’ve ever gotten a real word.)
Hi, Nathan,
I have a question. If an author were to submit an excerpt from a novel-in-progress to Authonomy, would agents and publishers consider it already “published” and be reluctant to take it on? I hope to complete my next novel by spring and submit it to agents, no matter what the state of the economy. I’m not rushing to get it completed, though. With the state of the economy, I figure it’s better to polish my work shinier than a brand new penny before submitting. I’d love to post the beginning on Authonomy, but several agents have expressed interest in the novel and I don’t want to jinx my chances of having it accepted.
I’m not sure if this specific permutation is ‘the answer’ but I think the internet has definitely changed the landscape of everything, not just publishing.
Who would have thought 10 years ago that there would actually exist people who built businesses somehow around something like YouTube. We’ve moved into a world of a zillion niches, and everybody’s a critic, and all it takes is to hook up with enough amateurs with big web presence who think you rock.
That’s completely divorced from the system we had before. We’re moving very much away from: “This group of trusted people at the top gets to filter everything for you, then present their best” and more into a “the people decide.”
The internet has democratized everything. That may be good or bad, but regardless, it’s here. So even if it’s not the only show in town, it’s smart, IMO, to figure out how to leverage it. Which is what Harper UK is attempting, and kudos for that.
While I don’t think Authonomy is a bad experiment, I can say as one of the site’s beta users that it was definitely not for me. It is all about working the system, and I found that doing so was draining the precious time I have for writing. I pulled my manuscript after three weeks.
What will be interesting to see in the coming months is if Harpers actually publishes anything off Authonomy. If so, then well done to them and to that author who had to work like a demon to get noticed.
I don’t know much about it.
I’d like to think that it would work, that it would be better this way, because regular people would actually get to put their opinions out there.
Unfortunately, there are far too many people who know how to work the system, and far too few regular people willing to put in the effort to make something like this work the way it’s supposed to.
Marilyn, that was my first question as well.
I’m also wondering if it could hurt you in other ways. Say an author submits to Autonomy and, at the same time, begins querying. Based on response, they revise. Months later, they query an agent who thinks to check them out on Autonomy. The agent may see reviews and comments which no longer reflect the ms.
The other thing which immediately sprang to mind was a popular fan fiction website which used to have a section for top rated fics. They ended up removing it due to author and reader manipulation.
I don’t think it will work well. It will favour skillful networkers, not good writers. I’m not going to waste my time.
Kathleen –
Thanks for that insight. It reminds me as well of other similar programs that didn’t work out too well, but wondered for a bit if Authonomy might be different.
Hey Nathan,
Doesn’t putting your entire manuscript on the web mess with the whole first print thing? I remember my brother was told that he had to keep his beta readers to a minimum and have everything password protected, etc, or it could void his contract. I thought you had to keep anything posted for the public to 10%. Would that mess up an author in the USA?
This is why I love this blog. I did not know about Authonomy. And I certainly couldn’t even pretend to make a thoughtful comment about it yet, but WOW. I look forward to stealing a few hours somewhere to sit down and browse around there and see what it’s all about. Very exciting.
Not sure I like the idea. I mean, isn’t it almost like self-publishing mixed with a popularity contest?
I would rather go the “old-fashioned” route of obtaining an agent rather than seeing if my peers think it’s the “next top novel.” Leave the job to the professionals 🙂
Apologies for the plug but I have been posting about my own experiences with authonomy on my blog recently: https://jimdempsey.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/authonomy-update/.
I was quite interested in it as an experiment so I tried it out with an early novel effort.
Most of its pros and cons have already been mentioned. Yes, it is like a ‘literary Survivor’ (great phrase Other Lisa).
You do have to ‘play the system’ and some people really take a lot of time to do that.
It is, as Mark said above, open to voter fraud too.
But it does have some plus points that nobody has touched on so far.
There is some good writing on there and it’s a good way of checking out the competition and seeing what’s ‘in’ at the moment.
Some of those people who spend so much time on there are clealry mad keen on books and can give very valuable feedback. For a novel in progress it’s a great place to try out your first few chapter to see how it sits with potential readers.
I think if you’ve got something you’ve been struggling with for a while it’s worth posting on there for the feedback alone. If you’re using it as a way to get published I’d guess you’ve got fairly little chance and have probably exhausted every other possibility. I’d try Nathan first.
I wouldn’t bother with Authonomy, but I’d love to know how HarperCollins can get back to the “winner” with notes so fast. I’ve got an agented submission at Harper and it’s been four months without a peep.
How about just reading your damn submissions that were sent by agents? There’s an idea!
Sometimes I think publishing is going under because it deserves to.
Everyone is missing the surefire way to get published. Become a movie star first. Jamie Lee Curtis had another picture book come out in September.
Wheee!!
Sounds like an interesting thing, but on my first cursory glance I couldn’t get past the tag line about “a mission to flush out…” Sorry but that just makes me think of the loo I guess you would say.
All HarperCollins promises Authonomy users is that the top rated books in a given month will be critiqued by an editor. They have lived up to that promise, but if anyone has gotten a contract from it, they’re not talking. Word is that HC has actually approached some writers about their books, but they were not ones who had been selected by other writers through the ranking process. If you want to try Authonomy, be prepared to spend some time reading and commenting on other peoples’ books. Otherwise, you won’t get much feedback. The ranking system weights users’ votes so that long-time users votes count for more as a way to discourage cheating. It’s a fun site, but it takes time. If you don’t have any other way of getting feedback, then it can be very helpful.
Authonomy seems harmless, but I doubt much will come of it. Most of what is posted on their website isn’t very good. Even the highly ranked manuscripts. My opinion is a little different. I don’t think the publishing industry is tough enough. It’s hard to find a good published book let alone one from the slush pile.
Sorry if this has already been posted – I only skimmed the comments briefly – but for anyone interested there’s a post over at Writer Beware on this one. Found here: https://accrispin.blogspot.com/2008/09/victoria-strauss-authonomy-slushkiller.html
I haven’t really looked at the site myself so I probably shouldn’t express an opinion. I’ll wait until I’m not supposed to be wrapping up university assignments to try it.
I’ve never heard of the site before now, but I browsed through real quick. It honestly doesn’t catch my eye. The titles aren’t exciting and none of it looks like something I would read without a recommendation.
So, slightly biased to start, what’s the point of something like this? Popularity contests are fun for the people who can be bubbly and social, but they aren’t a good way to pick a book.
It’s definitely those who best game the system. If it does catch on though, the best thing to do would be to write a How To Optimize Your Authonomy Ranking And Land A Publishing Deal book.
It’s becoming a part time job just keeping up with the next new trend.
But now I’ll have to follow this, too.
I blogged about authonomy a couple months ago. Am interested, but also skeptical for many of the same reasons which others have mentioned. Hence the backscratching image at that post.
OK, that website hurts my brain. But I like the idea. My guess is that the future is going to be lots of things, including this. In others words, I don’t know. But I’ll go with it. It does look nice.
Nathan, when is next contest? (no pressure!)
As someone who bought John Dies at the End and was a huge fan of Sarah Rees Brennan years before she sold her books for a bazillion dollars, I have to say…kind of. I don’t know if the Authonomy arrangement is really the ideal way to suss out great talent, but I do believe that by paying attention to people who make popular free content, publishers have a good chance of finding people who will eventually sell popular content for money.
nathan are you going to be at the sf writers conference?
I’ve heard good things about Authonomy, in particular that you can get good feedback there, and it’s a good way of seeing what the competition looks like.
However, getting your manuscript to the editor’s desk appears to be a full-time job. If I were to seriously play at the Authonomy game, I’d have to abandon my two critique groups and all new writing just to keep up. It’s a big sacrifice of time and a big gamble. I’m open to the possibility of doing Authonomy in the future, but right now I think my career is better served by spending that time writing and revising.
I have been on Authonomy for about three months and my book is currently on the Editor’s Desk. Authonomy is a game, and the prize is a review by a professional editor, not a publishing contract. The professional review comes on top of the many, many other comments you can get on your manuscript. As writer, I feel one of the most valuable aspects of sites like these is feedback from readers, to get that manuscript into the best shape you can before you even send it out. I haven’t sent this particular manuscript out anywhere. I’m learning. I believe that someAuthonomy members have illusions that someone will just give them a publishing contract. That may happen, but not overnight, and probably to manuscripts that have been improved with member feedback. But I’m willing to play the game and let readers vote on my book.
Writing is a time-consuming and lengthy business. The best thing you can do is stick around and be involved in as many things as you can. Take the ratings with a healthy dose of salt and join in the fun, I’d say.