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| “The Reading Lesson” – Knut Ekvall |
It’s always a tricky balancing act for writers and other artists: You want feedback on your work, you want other people to see what you’ve produced, but you also don’t want to get distracted by what other people think too early. You may even want everyone to just see it in its final form.
As reader Tricia writes:
While trying to have your novel published and wading through
seemingly endless rejection, do you let people (friends, family…) read
the product you are shopping around? Or, do you tell them they’ll have
to wait until it’s out there for the public as well? I’ve had
coutnless people ask for my work. I know they might enjoy it and it’s
tempting to let them have it knowing, in the back of my mind, it may
never be out there for purchase.
For me, I’m a tight-fisted writer and I tend to not let anyone read what I’ve written until it’s completely done. I have a few people I trust to show scenes to early if I need specific feedback, but otherwise I try to just plow straight through and keep the focus.
What about you? I’d be curious about what other non-writing artistic types think about this as well.
Each and every day, without fail 😉
I'm a firm believer that a writer can build a community around a story simply by being more transparent. It's frightening (and sure there are distractions), but ultimately creative control still rests in your capable hands.
Sharing stories without expectation is a powerful, powerful thing IMO.
I already answered on facebook, but yes I show it to persons that might help me with their great and objectif advises. They are an expection. For me that would be my brother.
I heard of the concept of "beta readers" i.e., trusted people who read your work before it's published. I think that's a good way of looking at it. They're testing the book before it goes public.
For me, I tend to hold on to things until they're absolutely ready.
really good topic – I am scurrying like a chipmunk throwing my finished stuff to every agent I can find but I am insecure about showing it to a critique group.
my thinking is my work is about a story. if the story is good, it will stand on its own and editing can be handled after the story is sold.
then again, I am yet to get represented so I am thinking maybe it is time to start sharing.
I think a work should be read when it's done. I've not held to that in the past, but I do now.
I've gotten more courageous after publishing (through a small press) my first memoir. I'm going to self-publish the second one that I'm ghosting for a friend. And since we'll need to publish a sample when it's "out there," I've gotten more courageous and have been posting scenes on my blog. I request any critical comments; I WANT them. I do get a few that are very helpful. But I don't put up the excerpts until I feel that they're as good as I can get them!
Ann Best, Author of In the Mirror, A Memoir of Shattered Secrets
I used to think not showing someone your work was always a sign of weakness. "You can't handle critique!" Earlier this year I joined a writer's group, showed them my first draft crap… and it completely screwed with my head. Their vision got jumbled up with mine and I came out generally distracted and confused. Week after week. Never again.
I don't like bringing readers in until the 3rd draft, at the earliest. And even then just a handful of people who give me notes on the overall logic of the story.
I'm a visual artist and a writer.
FOr my writing— I do have a few trusted friends that I let read my works in progress….mostly for encouragement but also for feedback and con-crit. SOmetimes I need to know if a scene reads well or if an idea is portrayed properly. The feedback is great and helps keep me going in the right direction.
For my photography— I tend to be an attention whore. I want people to see my work, so I show show show. I have a website, blog, flickr account and other means of showing and selling my work. But it's also helped me to kind of see my work through someone else's eyes. You always hear people reference photography as a "cohesive body of work"….or something about the narrative of their work and I rarely feel that my work is cohesive or tells a story. Sometimes the story is there and I don't directly see it. Getting feedback from others often helps me to see things I didn't realize where there and it's helped me form a more cohesive body of work.
I write many songs. Most of them I demo crudely and post to Bandcamp or SoundCloud right away. I don't get much feedback from those communities, but knowing they're out there for the public to hear motivates me to decide if I will edit lyrics and music and re-record, or embrace the immediacy of the initial recording. It's a passive kind of feedback, more from the idea of public availability than anything else, but it works.
Usually after 10,000 words, if I'm feeling good about a story and am interested in pursuing it further, I'll ask one or two trusted friends to read it and give me some feedback. Like should I keep going? Or should I scrap it? I figure by that time I should at least have some interesting things going on, and if I don't, then I need to do a serious rehaul or just LET GO.
Also! I'm a big fan of the #wip hashtag on Twitter. Sharing snippets and seeing what sorts of reactions I get (which most of the time is nothing). It helps me feel productive and also connected, so yeah, I like sharing.
As a florist, I'm used to people watching me work. Most often, the comments I get aren't useful. But once in awhile a comment will spark a fresh idea or help me create something I hadn't thought of before–this is particularly true for customized wedding and funeral pieces.
As a writer, I do the same thing. I share my work with critique partners right from the start. I use the feedback to gauge if I'm on the right track, try not to be swayed from my intent and pay attentions when a comment sets off a spark.
For me, it has to go through a few rounds of edits & reads before I send it my CPs. It's hard to wait, but if I get feedback too early, it might change my original vision of who my character is and I don't want that compromised.
Not until I feel it's done enough, which means first draft completed and more than one round of edits, but no definite number. Just once I feel it's only crap instead of absolutely shit will I go beta-ing.
I've tried deviating from this before and it just ends badly. I lose all motivation to write.
I'm like you, Nathan. If I feel I need feedback, it's handed to a trusted few, (usually one). I like handing my readers the piece as fresh as possible. I usually get the best feedback if the story is new in their minds. The fresher the better.
I let a few from the fam read it, mostly to make sure it's not too dark (since I've got a propensity to go heavy dark).
I finish a first draft, edit and type it out before letting my family read it. Occasionally I may let somebody read a paragraph or two while it's in progress, but I don't hand it over until I have a completed story.
I will pitch a premise / concept to people to get their reactions, but it is very rare I let anyone read a manuscript before I've finished it and done a first-pass at edits / revisions.
WORD VERIFICATION: depturci. The Department of Urci. I'm not sure what Urci is, but that's fodder for a different word verification definition, IMHO.
I go back and forth. Lately I've decided to just plow through. I did have my sister-in-law reading for a bit, but she's too kind. I don't want to get a big head. And then my husband isn't helpful at all. His answer to everything is a "shrug". So I'm going to stick with my own guts on my current WIP.
I often tell close friends and family the premise of what I'm writing at the time, but I rarely show my work to anyone before it's finished. I'm extremely self-conscious of my writing; it feels like a part of me. I want everyone to see it in its best and brightest form so it reads like the work I intended it to be. 🙂
The first person to see my work is the publisher. The second is the editor. They are the only ones that matter. When you start showing your work to people…family, friends, neighbors…who aren't professionals you start getting all kinds of bad advice you don't need. And you're usually sorry in the long run.
My wife's my feedback board, so i let her read sections as I'm progressing. I would really like to put it out on a writer's group.
I just sent my work in progress to a writer in residence yesterday from the library. It doesn't cost anything. I did this last year with another manuscript and she worked out great. I think this person will too. The person last year taught me alot about writing and I've applied it to this manuscript.
My hairdresser gets everything no matter what draft it is. She's the person every writer needs. Someone who loves everything I write.
Then there were the critique groups. Who also liked my work. But we turned in up to 50 pages in one group. Another group required 50-100 pages every other month. It kept me writing, which was a good thing. It also made me want to quit, which was a very bad thing.
One problem? When people are only getting bits and pieces a lot of the feedback is useless. "I take care of that in the next chapter that you haven't read yet." was a frequent response to a "problem" a reader found.
The bigger problem for me was not being able to write without feeling like everyone was standing behind me. X always says I have too many characters. Should I really add this one in? Y said I over-described that room in the last part. Am I going to far?
I needed to pare it done to one voice in my head when I write–mine. Or whoever it is that's usually in there. So no one gets my stuff until I feel it's ready to send out.
It is a fine line. Outside of the writers critique group I attend, I only show my work to two people: my husband and my best friend. I had an instance where I showed it to a relative, asking for their feedback, and they were printing off pages and showing them to a friend. Granted, that person was doing it proudly, and really meant no harm, but still. It made for an awkward confrontation after I spilled a few tears …
I wait until I'm finished with a SECOND draft, usually. First drafts tend to be embarrassing. I write first for myself, and then for my little sister, and she is always my first test reader. She tells me where I'm messing up, and where I'm not. I'm very choosy after that with sharing, because I like to share only with people who will provide quality constructive criticism.
I don't believe in having a story tainted by other people's opinions while it is in progress — I think an author should be true to his or her inner spark the entire way through a first draft. Other people's influence can change things, and an author will then never know what his or her own creativity might have produced. Feedback/changes are absolutely crucial for later revisions, but I think the first draft should be a clean reflection of a writer's soul.
But that's just me!
I go to select readers after the second draft is done. By that point I've seen the work so much I can't see the forest for the trees. Beta readers help identify weak areas, plot discrepancies, and things I see I my head that I didn't get on paper as well as I should.
NMC
I used to be tight-fisted too and only let people read my stuff only after publication (and even then, sometimes I wouldn't tell anyone besides my spouse).
These days, I'm a part of 2 critique groups so they get to see all my writings at their ugliest. I still don't usually let anyone else read my unpolished works though. :}
I usually look for betas after a couple of drafts. I revise pretty quickly in the early stages so sending it off after I've cleaned it up as much as I can helps me a) distance myself from the story so I see more clearly and b) find issues I didn't catch because I'm so familiar with the world-building and the story itself.
I revise so much that having others read my work is hard, because by the time they give feedback, I've changed the chapter so much that their edits are no longer relevant. Mostly, I have people read to see if my ideas are getting across.
I'm on the sparing side. I've shared, but it needs to be requested by someone I really think would like it–likes the genre, likes my writing that IS out there (whether blog or fan fiction–I do have some stuff out there)
I always share with writer friends–ideally some dozen before it reaches 'trying to sell' stage, but that is all for improvement feedback, which I no longer seek from non-writers–too many people just have their pet loves and try to influences you strangely.
I'm wondering if this depends on how long you've been writing? In my experience, I totally agree with Jaimie above. I wrote a novel. I joined Critters. I then became hopelessly confused because I was changing everything endlessly and trying to make use of the feedback I was given (and this was WITH me only accepting some of the feedback, and throwing out the outlyers). I do think maybe this is because this is my first work, and not as tight and confidently put together as another's work would be- and I'm more open to doubting my work than a more seasoned writer…?
I'm wondering if this depends on how long you've been writing? In my experience, I totally agree with Jaimie above. I wrote a novel. I joined Critters. I then became hopelessly confused because I was changing everything endlessly and trying to make use of the feedback I was given (and this was WITH me only accepting some of the feedback, and throwing out the outlyers). I do think maybe this is because this is my first work, and not as tight and confidently put together as another's work would be- and I'm more open to doubting my work than a more seasoned writer…?
I'm pretty tight-fisted with my current WIP. With short stories, poetry, flash fiction (basically anything that's not my main focus in writing) I always share.
But when it comes to that one special project, I don't let people see it until I'm practically finished. It's so personal at that point that it would be hard to let others say it's trash when I know I can make it better still.
But practically anything else, yeah I'll share it with anyone who wants to read it.
I have levels. CPs see things after a few drafts, unless I have a specific question. Betas don't read until it's (hopefully) close to done.
My friends and family could care less about my writing, so they don't ever get to read it.
I've discovered I'm a "brainstorming" kinda writer and it saves me loads of time if I give and early draft to people I trust (I'm sooo blessed with the writer's group I have and a husband who will read repeatedly what I throw at him).
Then I can ask them questions like "knowing what you know of character A, would you buy this action?" or "an element is missing, I feel it, what do you think it might be?" – then they answer and I take what sounds right to me. This exact event happened just last night and now I know what needs to happen in my current scene.
But I think you can only do this with people you trust and who are patient with you. Otherwise they'll just think you're buggy.
A few people see the story when the story is done and needs to be edited and rewritten. Most people won't see the story until all the edits and rewrites are done.
I've tried it the other way, but…if I start showing it to people when I'm writing the story, folks invariably want to talk about the story. FOR HOURS. And once I start talking about the plot and the characterization, I start figuring out how the story will end. And once I consciously know how everything ends, I don't need to tell myself the story.
It's frustrating. I know that a lot of people build up audiences by talking about stories and books in progress. But no matter how often I try, this doesn't work for me.
None of my relatives have read my writing, and they won't until it's in its final form. They're far more likely to try and read things into the story that aren't there (ie – You based this on me, didn't you? DIDN'T YOU???)
My work is non-fiction, a blend of modern physics, theology & philosophy. I have read chapters before my Rosicrucian Society fratres for significant feedback. I need detailed peer review to be able to field objections and perceived errors. I don't let family or friends read anything, but we lightly discuss some of the controversial subjects. My proposal is done, and I'm completing a couple of chapters before I submit to an agent.
I don't like to let people read unpolished work. Your beta readers will concentrate on all the things you know are wrong and not the things that you really want to ask them about. (If you work with a fellow writer, you might get better results.)
However, I'm kind of stuck on my current WIP and definitely need feedback on whether I should even continue writing it. Therefore, I plan to get the first 100 pages into viewable shape, and show that to 2 people who are very close to me and are capable readers.
I don't usually show my work in its early stages to anyone, aside from a few trusted people. But I let others read my work when there's nothing else I can do with it to improve all aspects of it until I've gotten some feedback. I used to tell people I show my work once I've made it as perfect as I can make it, but I've realized with my current WIP that it's not perfect; it simply needs the rest of the proverbial village to become better.
In the early stages, I only share bits and pieces of the story. As the story progresses, I will share chapters, but I'm careful who I share it with.
This is due in part to poor experiences with 'flybynight' critiquers who put little thought into their assessments. Reliable people take time to locate. It also helps when the person doing the critique understands the genre or your style.
Critiquing is a skill, not everyone has it. It's diplomacy with a touch of how-to. Good crit partners are gold.
I usually wait until a second draft until I let anyone read my stuff, but with my latest WIP, I had a trusted beta reader read it as I wrote the first draft. It was somewhat helpful, but I don't think I'll do it again.
I like to wait until the story is done, or virtually done, simply bc I think I get the best feedback that way. I don't like showing my critique partners a draft that has obvious mistakes in it bc that may well colour their opinion of a later draft. For instance, if they see a second draft when they already critiqued the first, they may be so caught up on the changes I've made (or haven't made) that they don't notice what still needs to be fixed.
I have a related question, regarding sharing via blog.
A friend asked me if it was "safe" to blog stories and ideas, worried that they may get stolen.
Now, I'm of the mindset that my writing can't be duplicated by someone else, and also that I probably hold my own stories much dearer than anyone else; i.e. why would anyone steal them.
But then again, I don't know. What do you think? Is it a real danger to have story ideas stolen if you share them with strangers?
When I feel my work is ready, I send it to my Beta readers, who are always eager to tell me why it isn't. 🙂
As a self-publisher, I don't have an editor or agent to point out my blind spots, so as much as I don't enjoy getting critique from my friends, as long as they're willing to give it, I'd be silly not to take it.
I've found that the people who ASK for your work are some of the best readers. If they mostly enjoy it, their criticisms are more helpful. You won't get the best critique from someone who "doesn't read that genre" or "wasn't really into it."
In progress, each time I finish a reasonably-sized chunk, which these days means about 2000 words. For me, writing and posting has meant writing and letting go, which means that the story continues to progress instead of me spending an eternity trying to perfect lines. I'm also trying to think of myself as a storyteller these days and let go of the idea that every paragraph has to be just right. I've learned, though, that although I love feedback (or at least I think I do), I hardly ever let it influence what I'm doing, so maybe that makes it easier. If I was getting bogged down in revising because of other people's comments, I'd definitely stop letting other people see what I was doing. I don't need help getting stuck! But for me, having people ask for updates and knowing that people want to keep reading is really motivating. (I post at fictionpress, by the way. I know it's tough to build an audience there — so, so, so much gets posted — but even a few readers keep me going.)
I like beta readers to come in for the 2nd draft. I can't do the weekly pages critique group kind of thing. I need my first drafts to be messy craziness, and I can't do that if people are reading right away. This is actually something I'm having trouble with in terms of finding critique partners. Most groups are set up to help you get a good first draft down. I really want critique partners where we read each other's finished drafts, but it seems this isn't quite as common.
@Amy
I have that same problem.
I share my completed manuscript with five kids and brother. Each of them find something that isn't quite right and I am able to fix it. I think their reading the books help my books to be better than they would be.
I am like you – I tend not to let people read my "product" until I feel it's finished, unless I need specific feed back on something that is troubling me.
I create with more than just words and in general – this holds true no matter what my "product" is, be it a crocheted poncho, a knitted blanket, a scrapbook page, a piece of pottery or clay work… it doesn't matter.