Thank you so much to everyone who weighed in on yesterday’s post about Amanda Hocking and the e-book self-publishing success stories!! It was a fascinating discussion, and I’m going to call out a few of my favorite comments in a second.
But first, I wanted to clarify a few things from the post.
– As Amanda Hocking pointed out to me via Twitter, I actually have read her work. When I was an agent I requested a full manuscript for Switched. I ended up passing, but suggested some changes (which she took and was super-gracious about yesterday, as is her wont). I had thought this was the case, but since I don’t have access to my old e-mail I wasn’t able to confirm. Well: confirmed!
– Some people were asking about the $1.50 figure for print and distribution. I was going off of my (possibly hazy) memory for that one, and it may be a tad on the low side for your average hardcover, though it may be in the ballpark for one with a very high print run. Back when they were blogging, HarperStudio pegged the average amount around $2.00 and Mike Shatzkin recently posted about how per-unit cost will inexorably go up as print runs fall.
But the general point remains: whether it’s $1.50 or $3.00, in the grand scheme of things losing paper/shipping isn’t saving publishers a boatload of cash when we’re talking $24.99 vs. $9.99.
Now then! Here is some more awesome food for thought from the comments section about what the self-publishing upstarts mean for the future of publishing:
I’m prognosticating that it’s not Nora Roberts and James Patterson who will consider leaving traditional publishing first. They have so much penetration into the print market, with their books in every corner grocery store, that it won’t make any sense.
It’s the midlist mass market authors who have the most to gain from this. Because, see, that 25-30% figure of print–that varies per author. For Nora, it’s probably closer to 5% (guessing), just because she is EVERYWHERE.
But for your midlist author who is no longer being carried in Walmart because Walmart halved their book section? The author who used to be in Target, but isn’t anymore because Target’s shifted more to trade paperbacks? The midlist author whose books may disappear from Borders? The midlist author who isn’t in the grocery store or the pharmacy?
For that author, electronic sales might end up close to 50-60% of her sales. For some authors, that point has already come. For others, it’ll be here in a few years.
If you get $1.40 from your publisher selling your e-book at 25% of agency net, and you get $1.99 selling your e-book yourself at $2.99, assuming that you sell as many copies of your book at $2.99 as at $7.99, you make more in royalties when e-books make up 53% of the market.
Of course, you may sell fewer copies because you don’t have a NY house behind you. And you may sell more, because your book is $5 cheaper.
Of course, you’ll have more expenses (like editing and covers). But you’ll also save on some of the money you spend on print promotion.
When USA Today Bestselling author Julianna Maclean/E.V. Mitchell announces that she has made more on her self-published book than she makes on a print book, print publishing is in very real danger of losing its midlist.
So, no. I don’t imagine that Nora Roberts will walk. What I do wonder is… Where is the next Nora Roberts going to come from?
I think the big problem with traditional publishing is they seem dead-set on making themselves irrelevant. You get several things with traditional publishers that are difficult to get self-publishing:
1) Professional editing
2) Placement on brick-and-mortar store shelves
3) Marketing
4) An advance
5) Cover design (art and copy) and layout
6) Stamp of approvalWell, more and more we’re being told that publishers don’t have time to edit books. We have to self-edit before sending them in.
Brick-and-mortar stores are going away.
The marketing budget of a book basically goes entirely into store placement (and maybe not for *your* book). Authors have been taking an increasing role in marketing for years and years—and it’s getting worse.
Advances are getting smaller and smaller.
It’s basically coming down to cover, layout, and that stamp of approval.
Cover and layout I can take care of if I need to. It won’t be as good as a publishing team, but they mess up sometimes, too. I’ll at least control the process.
I think it’s still worth it to go traditional—though having never been through it, I can’t say for sure—but it’s rapidly becoming a bad deal for authors who are not automatic best-sellers. The amount of work looks the same to me: I have to market my book single-handedly no matter what.
I think there is another perception to take into account as well- most authors currently perceive being published traditionally as providing the validation that self-publishing does not yet offer. However, as more authors head out west into the self-publishing unknown and strike it rich, the perception of self-publishing as a ‘last resort’ is going to wear away.
What I think all this means is that everything is going to shake up and shake out in the next couple of years. When I hear stories about the big publishers trying to nickle and dime libraries (of all buyers!) and holding out e-book releases for more hard back sales, I get the mental picture of a bunch of old dudes sitting around great marble tables clutching at piles of money ala Scrooge McDuck and bemoaning all those “meddling self-publishing upstarts.”
I think these old publishing dudes are going to have to start injecting some Apple innovation and imagination into their business images. Part of the reason consumers love buying Apple products when they could be paying lots less and why so many love Google is because of the inspired and creative image these businesses project.
“We are always changing and thinking up new ideas” seems to be the motto of the current beloved brands. Consumers want this and I think the image of the moneymongering old publishing dudes holding onto the old ways is going to have to give way to something young and new and embracing of technology and change. Right now it seems like everyone else is changing the publishing field with new gadgets, applications, and ideas and publishers are being dragged along by their dentures. I wonder how much better it might be for them if they took control of the innovations and forced distributors (Amazon, Barnes & Noble, self-publishing authors) to chase after them instead?
(UPDATE: By request) Elizabeth C. Mock:
I’m a self-published author at the beginning of my career and I decided to self-publish right out the gate. I never searched for an agent or a publisher. It wasn’t necessarily because of the money I thought I could make, but because I have some friends in the industry and I know how much of getting published has to do with luck and timing. I just wanted to be able to share my story. I didn’t really care how. Less than a year ago, I published my debut novel (the first in a trilogy) and last month I breached 100,000 downloads/sales. My decision to self-publish had everything to do with wanting to publish on my terms. I don’t mean that to sound petulant in any way nor do I mean to demean traditional publishing in any way. I just love my day job and want the freedom that self-publishing affords me. I definitely agree with the sentiments that have already been voiced. I know a lot of self-published authors who have only sold a hundred or so copies of their books. I really think that with this low-priced e-book movement we’re seeing market forces determining the success of the self-published authors. People want good stories and if a story resonates with people, then it will sell regardless of its origins in traditional publishing or self-publishing. If a story isn’t good, it won’t sell. I will freely admit that it is a lot of work and requires the backing of a lot of good people to put out a good product with self-publishing. Though the name is a bit of a misnomer in my opinion. I just know that I have been extremely happy with my results and look forward to see what my sales look like this summer when I release book two in the series. I think when weighing self-publishing and traditional publishing what a person needs to ask is what their priorities are in telling their stories. I think both venues have strengths and weaknesses and that while Hocking’s story is not the norm, the potential is out there. As with any entrepreneurial venture, however, you have to be prepared to put in the long hours to reap the potential benefits.
Any more thoughts on these comments and where the future is headed?
Hugely ignored by almost everyone is the fact that a publisher will have read the entire book before deciding if it is worth the money.
Not always. My three-novella anthology had only one novella completed when the publisher bought it. And although it's rare for a publisher to buy an unpublished authors work on proposal, it's the norm for published authors to sell on proposal (synopsis plus first three chapters/50ish pages). And honestly, most agents/editors know by the time they've finished the first five pages of a book (if not the first page) whether or not it has potential.
People who fear the self-publishing model act as though they're going to be forced to buy/read these books, but that's hardly the case. If you don't want to buy self-published books because you're convinced they'll all be poorly edited drivel, don't buy them.
I have just one comment about this in terms of "stamp of approval." I think there are two different kinds – one for authors and one for readers. For authors, I think they crave industry professionals to approve their work. The author could just go straight to the marketplace but the odds of getting significant reader approval are slim (and many others scoff at the commercially successful books anyway).
Readers, on the other hand, will accept book approval from anywhere – publishers, book blogs, best seller lists, recommendations from friends/family, etc. I don't think any reader has ever received a book recommendation and then asked, "well, wait, who published it?"
Ermo,
You raise an interesting point in that the issue of traditional publishers vs self publshing is really more about the writers than anyone else.
I agree that the readers at large won't be affected by the outcome of this fight if you can call it that. For now, it's as I had written, another option.
Such an interesting topic. The one thing that struck me most about Hocking's post is that she stated how much her efforts at trying to make success have cut into her ability to have time to write. For me, this is the biggest drawback to the whole self-publishing business. I love the idea. I cringe at the massive amount of time and effort required to have any chance at success.
Honestly, I'd rather be writing. My chances overall are still greater through a publishing house, and they do their best to take care of things I'd rather not take the time and effort to deal with. I'm not a full-time writer. I work, have a family, and such, so writing is not a full-time job. Self-publishing is not a "do it on the weekend" gig, not if you want to have a chance at success. It is it's own business, and unless you can afford to hold down two jobs, I still don't recommend this as a first or best option for writers.
Sure, it's fine if you are just wanting to get your story out there, and yes, good things can happen. They do and will continue to do so, but I don't believe a lot of writers get how much beyond the writing it can be to deal with all aspects of putting a well done story out there.
For now, I'm very happy letting others take care of many of the things I don't want and can't afford to be involved in. Perhaps one day, if I'm selling well enough to cover the costs of living, raising kids, having insurance, and so on, I'll delve headfirst into this realm, but for now, I'm content with a paper publisher (and yes, they'll have an e-version available), and having the time to write more stories.
The more I hear about self-publishing via sites like Lulu and Amazon, the more I want to go with that instead of possibly wasting the time of some already super busy editor/publisher/agent. It's just the way I've been brought up: if I can do it myself, I might as well, instead of having someone else do it.
But I'm extremely concerned about the editing. I know that my editing job, as far as it's come, in no way does my story justice. So, without an editor and agent to look over it, I'm sort of out of luck as far as a good editing job. I don't know anyone who has time to look through it as meticulously as I'd like them to, even though I'm on several writing websites.
So, what I'm really wondering is, since the e-book industry gives us a way to publish our books ourselves, what revolution will it start to help us improve their quality? Will there be a sudden jump in freelance editors, better ones with cheaper prices?
One thing that no one can possibly know is how many of these 99-cent eBooks ever get read by the people who download them. I have 99-cent apps on my cell phone that I've never even used. I downloaded them because I was bored, they looked cool, and they were less than a buck. So this is where the whole "reader shall judge" argument falls apart.
Another thing bothers me. If an indie writer was rejected by the entire publishing industry, including agents and publishing houses, does anything really change about the quality of their work once they e-publish? Not really. Their work still didn't meet a certain standard the industry expects from writers. Why should an indie writer's Kindle sales sway the opinion of the industry? If there's serious money involved, it's okay to compromise standards?
I haven't even started the query process yet. However, I expect agents who pass on my m.s. (and many will) to stand by their decision. If it's no good to them now, absolutely nothing — not even mad e-publishing success — should change their minds.
Marilyn – hey. Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner – I was in class until late last night, and super-busy today. It's finals week. :p
Of course I notice your posts!! How can I not, with all of your wonderful research and links!
I have to say, though, I sort of disagree with you and Lisa about the 99 cent bubble disappearing quickly. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. There are alot of very. very good reasons for Amazon to let people do that, and I don't see why they would stop. It's a powerful weapon in the war that's going on right now.
But I could be wrong – I have been before!
Once again, very interesting discussion!
Late to this but I HAD to comment on the cover being a publisher plus. Not so much. My first single title from Mira showed up with a stock cover shared by a YA out less than 6 mos earlier – their response was – LOTS of books a reused covers (they did change it for the mmp)and proceeded to give me a list. If you keep your eyes open, they are everywhere.
I have to comment on the notion that things are published in NY having been read through. (I'm the first anonymous quoted in the post.)
Along with buying my first book, my publisher also bought a second & third, sight unseen. This is typical.
I handed in the second book, and waited for edits. Which didn't come. What I got instead was a copy-edited manuscript.
I handed in a boat-load of changes, and had to get my agent to fight to let me make them. There were MASSIVE continuity errors–the kinds that slip through when you make a handful of changes at some point and don't make them throughout–that nobody caught. A grandmother was living at the beginning, dead in the middle, living at the end–that kind of thing.
My editor told me with a straight face that she didn't have time to edit and when I handed a book in I should expect it to go straight to copy edits.
So, not so much on the editing, folks.
If you want to know what agents do to earn their 15%, they make sure that *I* can make my books the best they can be, because the publisher sure as hell didn't care. My agent had to threaten my publisher to let me make changes to a manuscript that were necessary for a coherent storyline.
This is surely not nothing.
Amazing post(s), both of them.
The self pub boom may be beneficial to authors and agents, when it comes to negotiating with publishers.
As "Anonymous @ 9:55" said, publishers are offering less to authors and still taking the same cut of the pie. Perhaps, if they wanted authors to continue paying for their services, they will offer more, or take a smaller cut of the pie.
This seems incredibly unlikely, but authors are starting to wonder if they're getting good value from the traditional publishing model.
I always have nightmares about being self published or published by a vanity publisher. So, my resolution is never to self-publish.
I will keep trying to find a respectable imprints for my yet-to-be published book.
Given that I was on that "kindle millionaires" list – and since I noticed I was used as an example of the future of publishing in one of the comments 🙂 I thought I'd drop in to comment.
In addition to the 8 Bella Andre books that were published in the past few years by S&S and Random House, along with the new Bella Riley women's fiction/romance trilogy that Grand Central Forever will be putting out in September 2011, and the 2 new Bella Andre erotic romances they will release in mm ppbk starting summer 2012, I currently have nine self-published ebooks (and POD through Createspace) out at Amazon, B&N, iBookstore, Smashwords, etc. 3 of these books are by a new pen name (yes another one!) that I will be formally unveiling shortly. They are Young Adult/chick lit books.
I have sold *a lot* of these 9 self-published books in the past 11 months, on the order of 1,000+ a day lately. (Yesterday, I sold 1164 books. One of my ebooks sold 479 copies yesterday and was the 2nd best ranked self-published book at BN.com. Another sold 273 copies. I'm happy!) My books range in price from $.99 to $5.99, so at 70%, my per book average isn't bad. 🙂
With that said, at the same time, I'm still totally invested in the "traditional" print market. Why? Well, first, I have 5 books coming out in mass market in the next year and a half. And I have this dream…I've always wanted to see lots and lots of my books at Walmart and Target and Safeway, along with the bookstore chains – and I've always wanted lots and lots of people to buy them. 🙂
So here's what I hope happens – I hope my publisher will utilize my self-pubbed e-book success when they are selling in those 5 new books and that they'll be able to go out to the accounts that felt they couldn't take a risk on me before and say, "Here's proof that she sells and sells big." My agent has been talking with my publisher about this very thing quite a bit lately.
Whatever happens, it has been a truly thrilling ride so far! Just the thought of reaching over 1,000 new readers every day blows my mind.
🙂 Bella Andre
https://www.BellaAndre.com