Last week we discussed writing vs. storytelling and parsed out how it’s often the storytelling and not the sentence-to-sentence prose that is drawing people in when a book is extremely popular.
Let’s imagine two sliding scale spectrums:
0-10 on the writing scale
And 0-10 on the storytelling scale
10 writing, 0 storytelling would be experimental fiction and other prose-centric musings without much/any story.
0 writing, 10 storytelling would be novels where the story is fantastic but the prose is basically indistinguishable from another book or otherwise not very strong.
Everything in between would each be a combination of strengths. For instance, 7 writing/10 storytelling would be well-written edge-of-the-seat genre fiction, 10 writing/10 storytelling would be a book that melds beautiful (if challenging) prose with expert plotting, and 10 writing/6 storytelling would finely wrought novels where we mainly admire the writing.
So. How important is writing vs. storytelling to you? Which is more important to you when you choose a book? Do you have a sweet spot? Do you gravitate toward a certain combination of writing and storytelling? Do you have limits?
Speaking personally, my favorite books are close to 10/10, but as long as the storytelling is great I’m very willing to skimp on the writing scale. I can’t do less than about a 5 or 6 on storytelling no matter how good the writing is.
What about you?
Judy Douglas Knauer says
7 writing/10 storytelling. Strong characters should tell the story and elicit empathy to keep my attention. I've read the 1st two Steig Larrson books and kept turning pages despite finding viewpoint discrepancies and over-telling of boring stuff. It was better storytelling than writing in my opinion.
D. Michael Olive says
While a 10/10 is great in theory, I'd settle for a 5/10. If the story doesn't grab me, it doesn't matter how brilliant the prose. I donate books with brilliant prose but a boring story to my local library.
Anonymous says
To me, the writing has to be up in the 8 or above level or I just feel a under-challenged. I want a writer's words and style to push me to think; I want to grapple and marvel at the words and how they work to move me and evoke imagery. The story needs to be just as good, but I can forgive the lack of story slightly if the writing is top notch. To me, Cormac McCarthy takes the cake in the writing department-without equal. I will also say that I am currently reading TINKERS, by Paul Harding, and let me just say: the guy can freakin' write! Unbelievably beautiful writing. Leaves me gasping at times.
Anonymous says
The salmon mousse!
#167 Dad says
I suppose I see storytelling as part of writing.
Hey, I have a question for you. How many copies does the average book published by one of the major publishers sell? I've come across conflicting numbers.
griggit@yahoo.com
Koneko says
5+ writing, for me, and 8+ story telling, but I'll make exceptions on both sides for characters that grab me.
Adam Heine says
To me, writing is like icing. A good cake doesn't need it, although it can make a good cake better. And no amount of icing will make a bad cake good.
I don't know what specific combination is my sweet spot, but I'd probably read a 0 writing if it had 10 storytelling. And like Nathan, I don't much enjoy stories below 5 or 6, even if the writing were 15.
Terin Tashi Miller says
I gotta agree with Nathan on this one. I'm pretty much 10/10. If the writing seems to me obtrusive–trying to draw attention to itself more than story–I can't get through the book.
If, on the other hand, the writing is invisible (clear, concise, emotive, communicating), and not drawing attention to itself, but there's no "there, there," I can't get through a book, either.
Unlike Mira, however, I tend toward the "literary," I think. I like a good story, told well. I'm more impressed by a story I get because I'm drawn in and can't stop trying to find out what happens next, I care about the characters and I want to know how any conflict is resolved.
But if a writer seems to be trying too hard to impress me with some style or technique, as opposed to communicating whatever it is they appear to want to communicate to me (the purpose of written language and, one could argue, all language), I'm less inclined to get into the story because the prose is in the way.
I'll confess it here and now: I personally did not like The Shipping News. Couldn't get past what struck me as stilted prose. Forced myself to discover the story in it. Was not impressed. (*Gasps, shunning…*)
So. I rather like Mira's idea, though, of liking commercial fiction for money-making, literary fiction for some sort of cultural experience, and opening a bookstore for wanting to spread the disease of reading (and therefore, perhaps by extension, independent thought and opinion based on a variety of disparate sources).
Brings me to a question, though, as we've been discussing the subjectivity of these questions of preference: Mr. Agent Man–you seem to like Hemingway, and Faulkner, as 10/10s. I happen to agree. However, as an agent, do you think you could sell either writer's books ("A story about expatriates in Paris suffering and trying to overcome the effects of The Great War" or "A story about an old fisherman who hasn't had any luck and others believe is cursed eventually catching the greatest fish of his life, only to have it ravaged by sharks before he can bring it in to show his detractors…," not to mention "a story about a bear hunt as allegory…") in today's market?
The characters alone aren't battling with issues of sexual identity, substance abuse (at least not self-knowingly) or seeking gurus to answer their questions about the meaning of life.
And just to throw a monkey in the works, a possibly 10/5, "This Side of Paradise" is perhaps THE MOST narcissistic and ultimatley "why should I care you've learned who you are" novel touted as literature in the early 20th Century. Yet it put F. Scott "on the map," and was followed by what in my book definitely is a 10/10, The Great Gatsby, metioned before as not selling that well when it first came out but falling under the category of "literature" despite being, ultimately, a "who-done-it" murder mystery.
Terin Tashi Miller says
I gotta agree with Nathan on this one. I'm pretty much 10/10. If the writing seems to me obtrusive–trying to draw attention to itself more than story–I can't get through the book.
If, on the other hand, the writing is invisible (clear, concise, emotive, communicating), and not drawing attention to itself, but there's no "there, there," I can't get through a book, either.
Unlike Mira, however, I tend toward the "literary," I think. I like a good story, told well. I'm more impressed by a story I get because I'm drawn in and can't stop trying to find out what happens next, I care about the characters and I want to know how any conflict is resolved.
But if a writer seems to be trying too hard to impress me with some style or technique, as opposed to communicating whatever it is they appear to want to communicate to me (the purpose of written language and, one could argue, all language), I'm less inclined to get into the story because the prose is in the way.
I'll confess it here and now: I personally did not like The Shipping News. Couldn't get past what struck me as stilted prose. Forced myself to discover the story in it. Was not impressed. (*Gasps, shunning…*)
So. I rather like Mira's idea, though, of liking commercial fiction for money-making, literary fiction for some sort of cultural experience, and opening a bookstore for wanting to spread the disease of reading (and therefore, perhaps by extension, independent thought and opinion based on a variety of disparate sources).
Brings me to a question, though, as we've been discussing the subjectivity of these questions of preference: Mr. Agent Man–you seem to like Hemingway, and Faulkner, as 10/10s. I happen to agree. However, as an agent, do you think you could sell either writer's books ("A story about expatriates in Paris suffering and trying to overcome the effects of The Great War" or "A story about an old fisherman who hasn't had any luck and others believe is cursed eventually catching the greatest fish of his life, only to have it ravaged by sharks before he can bring it in to show his detractors…," not to mention "a story about a bear hunt as allegory…") in today's market?
The characters alone aren't battling with issues of sexual identity, substance abuse (at least not self-knowingly) or seeking gurus to answer their questions about the meaning of life.
And just to throw a monkey in the works, a possibly 10/5, "This Side of Paradise" is perhaps THE MOST narcissistic and ultimatley "why should I care you've learned who you are" novel touted as literature in the early 20th Century. Yet it put F. Scott "on the map," and was followed by what in my book definitely is a 10/10, The Great Gatsby, metioned before as not selling that well when it first came out but falling under the category of "literature" despite being, ultimately, a "who-done-it" murder mystery.
Terin Tashi Miller says
Correcting typo in last post: ultimately.
And for an example of writing with definite purpose in a particular style that does not detract from the story, I still highly recommend The Prince of Tides by Pat Conroy.
Read it while living in South Carolina's "lowcountry." The rhythm of the words, the way in which they're strung together, almost immitating the waves of the ocean and the sound of the ocean breeze in the palmettos…I can't describe how well the style of the prose evoked the story being told.
kimberlyloomis says
For a 10 in writing all words must matter to the story in feel and plot. Loads of books I've grabbed from the library have gotten below a 7 (the lowest I'll tolerate) in writing because almost half the pages wind up being unnecessary to the movement of the story and/or development of the characters. If I wanted to watch a movie, I'd watch a movie but since we're talking about books the words used matter.
10/10 for me would be something like "The Road", "Lord of the Rings" or "To Kill a Mockingbird". If the writing is excellent and the story something "normal" that writing will make it seem different and unique enough to warrant my time investment.
Susan Cushman says
I go with 10 writing/5 story. Even where movies are concerned. Where Jamie thought Eat Pray Love got slow in the India part, I was just happy to enjoy the beauty of the characters, the acting, the film making. I'm the same with books. I'm into character-driven more than plot-driven, and just beautiful literary prose.
Anonymous says
I think I can deal with a 5/5 as long as the writing makes sense to me. Otherwise, I'm opposite of Nathan, I think…there are certain extremely popular authors I can't get through page 1 and I saw the movie, so I KNOW it was a heckuva story. Yet the prose… And this coming from someone unpublished. It's not snobbery…habit, maybe? Like I just can't stick with it and it's frustrating, 'cause (not to be redundant, redundant like a tiny morsel redundant…:)) I know I'm missing a great story.
So, I work toward both better plotting and more lucidity in my own writing.
Cathi says
My attention span is about the length of a gnat, so the story has to be close to a 10. Then again, weak writing is a distraction. I just finished a novel that was so poorly written, and the plot was so blah, it was hard to concentrate on because I kept editing as I read.
Ishta Mercurio says
I tend to be higher on the storytelling end. I can take really low-scale (like, 2 or 3) writing if the story is really good. But without a good story, the writing has to be at least an 8 to make up for it, and the characters still have to be really compelling.
treeoflife says
0-5 Writing
10 Story
I honestly don't like overly fancy writing. I've put away more than one book where the writer was more determined to show off their mastery of language than actually tell a good story. Too many authors do this in the first few pages of their books, and it irritates me.
It's all about the story. The writing must do nothing more than let the story be told well!
bsgibson says
Storytelling has to be high and the writing at least a 5 or 6 and better if 9 or 10. However, I'm forgiving on the writing side, but demand an interesting story that carries me page to page.
cheekychook says
I'd have to say my ideal ratio is 10 storyline/8 writing. Here's why.
If a storyline is fantastic (10), and is explained decently (anything over a 5/6 writing), it will lure me in—an awesome story (great characters, interesting plot)will have me hooked. If the writing is a also a 10, meaning it is consistently flawless throughout the book, chances are there will be some points where I'm actually pulled out of the story because the writing is so….well…good. The writing will command as much of my attention as the story—and that will break the spell. (Below average writing breaks the spell in an equivalent way, no matter how good the story is.)
I think part of the reason the writing can get away with being less-than-stellar, as long as the storyline is amazing, is that less-than-perfect writing (say 6-9) still hits the occasional 10—the sentence here or there that is so off-the-charts spot on that you gasp and think "Wow" because it was the ideal way to express that particular nuance. Those occasional *gasp* moments of perfect prose can be the "sweet spots" of below-10 writing that are the sublime compliment to a 10 storyline—like when you take a bite of an ice cream sundae and manage to scoop up the perfect ratio of ice cream to toppings.
Storyline is the ice cream…I can enjoy it with or without the toppings—I prefer it will a few, but if the ice cream is awesome I can eat an awful lot of it straight up. Writing is the hot fudge/whipped cream/sprinkles/etc. I enjoy the toppings on their own too, but (no matter how much I like hot fudge, and I really, really like hot fudge)I can't eat as much of the toppings as I can ice cream…and I like them best in combination. I always look forward to those perfect bites.
k10wnsta says
Some notable authors on this scale:
Author – Writing/Storytelling
Stephen King – 10/10+
Mark Twain – 10+/10
Harper Lee – 9/9
J.D. Salinger – 9/8
J.K. Rowling – 7/10
Stephanie Meyer – 5/3
Yes, Stephanie Meyer is a mediocre writer and a poor storyteller, but those traits are offset by the fact that she tapped in to tweens everywhere by writing on their level and made a mint doing it.
People are quick to dismiss Stephen King, but the sheer volume of unique stories he's told – and the astonishing number of voices he's told them in – places him comfortably on the 'Greatest Writer Ever…Ever' pedestal. There is no caveat – his body of work is staggering in its accomplishment (if you need a refresher, read the oft-forgotten The Eyes of the Dragon).
If you disagree with any of these, you're wrong.
JDuncan says
10/10 is really, really rare imo. For me, like many others here, the storytelling has to be in the 8-10 range. Over the years though, I've noticed my tolerance on the writing end has gotten more severe. I would say twenty years ago, 5 and up would have been good, but now? Seven or better. Even good storytelling loses me now if the writing is pretty darn good. And mediocre storytelling will always lose me no matter how good the writing is.
Melanie says
Leah Raeder and Brandon managed to explain EXACTLY what I've been trying to find the words for, but I wanted to second the notion that good writing puts a spell over the reader. Anyone who thinks good writing is stuffy or elitist, thereby ruining the experience, is not actually reading 10 level writing. Someone also mentioned slow pacing as a fault of great writing. To me, pacing is a feature of storytelling.
My scale: 8+ writing and probably anywhere on the scale for storytelling. In fact, I prefer books that are probably more like a 2-5.
Marilyn Peake says
I prefer 10 writing/10 storytelling in novels. For me, that would include novels like THE POISONWOOD BIBLE by Barbara Kingsolver, THE ROAD by Cormac McCarthy, and THE SECRET LIFE OF BEES by Sue Monk Kidd.
I love reading 10 writing/6 storytelling novels the way you describe them: "finely wrought novels where we mainly admire the writing". To me, truly great writing blends beautiful prose with meaningful insight into life, and isn’t simply well-constructed sentences and pretty words. Sometimes novels are able to explore life more deeply when the plot is looser, e.g. TINKERS by Paul Harding, the indie novel that received numerous rejections because it was felt that "Nobody wants to read a slow, contemplative, meditative, quiet book…" but went on to win the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction this year. I’m reading this novel now, and feel gripped by the beauty of the prose and Harding’s extraordinary ability to describe significant life moments.
I also love novels that include brilliant theories and concepts, books that might be 10 writing/6 storytelling/10 concepts. In this category, I’d place novels like THE GOLDBUG VARIATIONS by Richard Powers, a brilliant story that makes connections among music, computer programming, art, and the cracking of the DNA code, and ENCOUNTER WITH TIBER by Astronaut Buzz Aldrin and Science Fiction Author John Barnes, with its fantastic story and complex descriptions of scientific theories, and THE GLASS BEAD GAME or MAGISTER LUDI by Hermann Hesse.
I thoroughly enjoy well-written experimental novels in which plot takes second place to fantastic writing and creative experimentation, e.g. HOUSE OF LEAVES by Mark Z. Danielewski and CLOUD ATLAS by David Mitchell. The degree to which David Mitchell effectively changed genres and historical time periods for each section of CLOUD ATLAS was impressive. I especially love the section, SLOOSHA’S CROSSIN’ AN’ EV’RYTHIN’ AFTER. When I first started reading that section, I thought I’d never make heads or tails of it; but, when I realized that the story was set in a post-apocalyptic island world and assumed that Mitchell had created his own post-apocalyptic language, I started seeing enough connections to interpret the language and found it both mesmerizing and beautiful.
You asked if we had limits. I definitely do. I find it excruciatingly painful to read a poorly written novel with simplistic language, grammatical errors and themes that cater to baser instincts, even if those books are huge best-sellers.
Marilyn Peake says
I prefer 10 writing/10 storytelling in novels. For me, that would include novels like THE POISONWOOD BIBLE by Barbara Kingsolver, THE ROAD by Cormac McCarthy, and THE SECRET LIFE OF BEES by Sue Monk Kidd.
I love reading 10 writing/6 storytelling novels the way you describe them: "finely wrought novels where we mainly admire the writing". To me, truly great writing blends beautiful prose with meaningful insight into life, and isn’t simply well-constructed sentences and pretty words. Sometimes novels are able to explore life more deeply when the plot is looser, e.g. TINKERS by Paul Harding, the indie novel that received numerous rejections because it was felt that "Nobody wants to read a slow, contemplative, meditative, quiet book…" but went on to win the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction this year. I’m reading this novel now, and feel gripped by the beauty of the prose and Harding’s extraordinary ability to describe significant life moments.
I also love novels that include brilliant theories and concepts, books that might be 10 writing/6 storytelling/10 concepts. In this category, I’d place novels like THE GOLDBUG VARIATIONS by Richard Powers, a brilliant story that makes connections among music, computer programming, art, and the cracking of the DNA code, and ENCOUNTER WITH TIBER by Astronaut Buzz Aldrin and Science Fiction Author John Barnes, with its fantastic story and complex descriptions of scientific theories, and THE GLASS BEAD GAME or MAGISTER LUDI by Hermann Hesse.
I thoroughly enjoy well-written experimental novels in which plot takes second place to fantastic writing and creative experimentation, e.g. HOUSE OF LEAVES by Mark Z. Danielewski and CLOUD ATLAS by David Mitchell. The degree to which David Mitchell effectively changed genres and historical time periods for each section of CLOUD ATLAS was impressive. I especially love the section, SLOOSHA’S CROSSIN’ AN’ EV’RYTHIN’ AFTER. When I first started reading that section, I thought I’d never make heads or tails of it; but, when I realized that the story was set in a post-apocalyptic island world and assumed that Mitchell had created his own post-apocalyptic language, I started seeing enough connections to interpret the language and found it both mesmerizing and beautiful.
You asked if we had limits. I definitely do. I find it excruciatingly painful to read a poorly written novel with simplistic language, grammatical errors and themes that cater to baser instincts, even if those books are huge best-sellers.
Heidi C. Vlach says
Interesting question! I'm going to have to say 9 writing, 6 storytelling. If the characters are unremarkable and the writing is just okay, then I don't care what those characters are doing. They're welcome to carry on doing it without me. Whereas if a character's voice is well-crafted, I think they can make the smallest moments feel significant. I'd rather enjoy the small things and the greater themes than run around with a breakneck plot.
Scott Foley says
Nathan, you must have been reading my mind, I blogged about this topic the other day!
https://warlordsofthedreaminggod.com/2010/08/10/when-the-words-disappear/
As for me, it's storytelling every time, although not at the complete expense of writing quality. So 7+ writing/8+ storytelling are my favourite books. Though I notice that some writers lure you in with a great premise suggesting 10 storytelling and the plot turns out a bit flat. Iain Banks did that to me once, never again 🙁
Frances says
I like a book which makes me feel that I don't have to keep score – where the prose carries me beautifully along the storyline. Overall I'd take story over prose but I think a writer has to use language well in order to tell a good story. I'd go for 5/6 on writing and 8 on story.
Of course, it also depends on the genre e.g. I don't want a serial killer stopping to admire lush green meadows. He might well do so in real life but in fiction it just wouldn't ring true. Another pet hate is an author who takes an inordinate amount of time to describe a place. I begin to feel like I'm reading a travelogue.
Angus Bearn says
You can be too analytical. The writer must offer something the reader wants. That could be just anything. From being seen to pretend to read it, to historical research, to arousal…
Patrick Neylan says
Lots of people are looking for double-10, but you seldom find it (Cormac McCarthy springs to mind).
James Patterson is a 10 story, 3 writing. In another genre, Isaac Asimov successfully pulled the same trick and even made a point of it. It's often the way with genre fiction, though occasionally someone like Ian Rankin or Raymond Chandler will give you a 10/10 piece of genre fiction.
Jeanette Winterson does it the other way round, which brings us back to the definition of literary fiction discussed earlier.
Both have their place, on my bookshelf anyway.
Hillsy says
Apologies if this has been mentioned before…but
How important is writing vs. storytelling to you? Which is more important to you when you choose a book?
How do you know how good the storytelling is until you've read the book?
If, using your (accurate) barometer of "Did the writer achieve what he set out to do", a literary novel's story hits the mark, it's a better feat of storytelling than a sweeping, all action epic poorly executed??
Therefore, shouldn't the storytelling category be more "scope of story" or "Action based plot" rather than quality of said story??
Sorry, if I'm being pedantic…=0)
RosieC says
I'm also willing to put up with poor writing for a fantastic story. What I'm reading now is such a great story that I couldn't put it down last night (or maybe I just had insomnia?) but there are jarring points in the writing. I wouldn't say it's below a 7–all things considered, it's quite good–but since the story is 9 or 10, I'm happy to continue reading.
Deb says
So what you’re basically asking is: What’s the upper limit on your crapometer? For me, good writing and storytelling are seamless. They are not independent of each other. Good writers can take stale storylines and turn them into brilliance while bad writers can butcher a great plot. We all have the airport read that we’ll tolerate if it’s compelling enough and for the mere fact that we just spent 10 euros on it and the candy wrappers are written in a foreign tongue. But I don’t believe there are good writers who are bad storytellers. A story cannot flop and the writing be brilliant. Perhaps parts can be but not the whole. Otherwise, it would work. The potential was there but not fulfilled. Great writers do it all. Well.
reader says
I only find a 10/10 book every two years or so and I read a lot.
Because I like characters over plot I like a higher "writing" score over a higher "storytelling" score — mostly because I've found authors that pay attention to the writing also pay attention to the characters a lot more.
Amy Lundebrek says
Love this post, Nathan! Thank you for helping us discover a new way of thinking about fiction. It reminds me of how enlightening "the political compass" is (incorporating a scale of authoritarian/libertarian in addition to just left/right). Consider placing your two scales perpendicular to one another and talking about placing novels in one of the four quadrants.
Dara says
Probably close to 10/10. I'm similar in that I can drop maybe as low as a 6 or 7 writing wise, but the story has to be at least an 8. I think I don't finish books because the story loses momentum and I get bored with it.
Now the trick is to try and apply that to my own writing. Not as easy!
Noelle Pierce says
Only recently, after I started writing myself, have I noticed bad writing. I mean, things like too many adverbs. I always noticed typos, but I can look past those. For me, it's the story, the plot, the characters. if I don't care about that, I won't keep reading. That said, books that are too writerly shut me down faster than a textbook. I can't read the classics. I can't get past the flowery prose to read Shakespeare and actually understand the story. Austen? I've tried repeatedly over the last 15 years, but can't get past chapter 2. Maybe 6.
I appreciate the skill and talent necessary to achieve lyrical prose, but I can't stand reading it.
For me: 1/7+
Anonymous says
Some of the denser literary works I've encountered were only surmountable for me in college, where it was fun to dissect and analyze the writing and the story. It was more participatory to project and share the questions. (What does it mean? etc.)
But, on the other hand, I read for pleasure and information all over the map. I liked Twilight for the story. I liked Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice for the story. There are stories and movies that are just fun and entertaining and have that mass appeal.
And here and there, there is profound writing and profound story, that does more than entertain or help the reader escape:
It helps the reader discover himself or makes the world open up or changes one's life. Or they are just so perfect, not a single word should be changed.
But I cannot rate some things in the same system.
Niagara Falls does not take away the joy of the bubbling brook.
Robert Michael says
I use a sliding scale. I read everything from Star Wars Legacy novels to Ken Follett to James Joyce to Stephen King and Dan Brown. Whew! Now, I just picked up Tom Clancy again after a 10 years and am struck by how low he is on both scales.
What I read is determined by how I feel. Sometimes I want a guilty pleasure read and will pick up RA Salvatore or Anne Rice. Sometimes I want a long, sticky, read-that-paragraph-twice type novel and will pull a Faulkner or a Dostoyevsky off the shelf.
I guess what matters most to me is that whatever I read, it must keep me interested. Portrait of a Lady was compelling to me because the characters were so vivid, the settings so lush. Dirty White Boys and Hot Springs (By Stephen Hunter) made me want to read Havannah and Blacklight because the character was interesting and the action so compelling.
I guess I just love books. Do I judge their merit? Of course. I know the difference between a good book, a poorly written book and a superb piece of literature. There is subjectivity, to be sure, but the elements of excellence in writing are eternal. The best writing melds the art, creativity and imagination of an artist with the craft (exposition, sentence structure, word use, imagery, punctuation, syntax, etc.) of a wordsmith.
simon says
Why would 10 out of 10 writing be challenging?
wonderer says
I'm getting increasingly picky about the writing side. The wrong voice will make a novel unreadable for me. I'll read novels with utilitarian prose, but my favourites all have prose where clear attention has been paid to the word choice. That doesn't necessarily mean the writing is poetic or fancy, though.
On the storytelling side, I like variety. I'll read one novel that's mostly about plot, then the next one I pick will be more literary.
If the storytelling is 10/10, I might overlook poor prose. Here's where I admit to devouring several Dan Brown novels…
Hart Johnson says
The 10/10s are fabulous if you can find them. I am willing to let the storytelling go lowish if the writing is fabulous (a 10/3) but I am only willing to tolerate writing down to about a 6, no matter HOW great the story–though that doesn't have to mean LITERARY writing… simple is fine, if the word choices are good and the author has included and excluded the right things (for instance, I happen to think Harry Potter was BEAUTIFULLY written–they were the perfect words, even if it is simple language)
Katrina L. Lantz says
I'm reading Frank Baum's The Wizard of Oz to my 3yo and have been thinking about exactly this point.
Baum's Writing:5
Story: 9
Currently, I like Libba Bray and Gayle Forman for a great mix between writing and story. Discovered Libba Bray on goodreads from quotes alone. That's good writing when a quote makes you look up the author and buy her books.
My own? Presently? Writing: 6 Story: 6 I hope I'm improving all the time.
A.M. Guynes says
The storytelling HAS to be compelling and interesting if I'm going to read more than a few chapters. The writing can be ok, but certain things will make me put a book down even if the story is interesting.
So I'd say, for me, the storytelling has to be at an 8-10 while I'll tolerate writing as low as a 7. Anything lower on either spectrum and I put the book down because I'm either bored or irritated with the author.
Anonymous says
I'm shocked that Nathan could EVER skimp on the writing even at a 6. LOL! As for me, I need a good story and great writing only adds to the flavor.
Cora L. Foerstner says
The comments on this post are "awesome."
My tastes change and it depends. 10/10, as many have said, is ideal, but I love character and will make allowances for good characters. Sometimes I just want a good story, and sometimes I read because the writing is wonderful.
I cannot tolerate poor writing and poor storytelling.
James Rafferty says
Great topic. Like several commenters above, my tolerance for weak writing is a lot less than it was before I started writing my own novels and stories. For my reading, I want a balance of strong story and writing that avoids cliches.
Wanda B. Ontheshelves says
The only thing with the 10 writing, it seems to me, is that somehow the dialogue mysteriously vaporizes, you have characters who are doing, thinking, etc., just not TALKING. After a few chapters of no talking, the novel starts to seem very very quiet to me…a looming silence, as bad as those we can experience in real life…sometimes there are work situations like that, very weird, nobody's talking to anyone…the painful silence til you can finally leave at the end of the day!
So, hey, 10/10! Just keep the dialogue coming, please, even if your characters don't speak in polished prose.
Dawn Pier says
Okay, I'm going to comment despite being #149 (wow, Nathan, you are a blogging God).
I'd like to give a specific example of two books written by the same author that I believe provide a good example of how the "storytelling" part is key to reader satisfaction and delight.
Michael Ondaatje is probably best known for "The English Patient" because it was made into a movie. However, I personally believe his earlier book "Coming Through Slaughter" to be a 10/10. It is beautiful, sensual and greatly suspenseful. His most recent book "Divisadero" is beautifully written like every book of his that I have read. The story left me wanting and very disappointed – a 5 or 6 at best. So given a very similar level of writing in both books (in fact, the writing in the latter book is probably better), the one with the better story will win every time.
Question: How much can we as writers expact an editor to help with the "bad writing" aspect of things?
Margaret Fleming says
Yes,Nathan, my faves are close to 10/10. This goes for JOhn Lescroart,The opening page of A Plague of Secrets. Also lately for Tom Peters' The little BIG Things. It's breaking your Huffington rule about the big print and exclamation points that I love–would have kept me awake for certain B-School courses. And his language, while not polite, is what I use when I'm excitefd or irritated, so I don't feel talked down to. Margaret Fleming
Dawn Pier says
(blushing, she looks at the floor, the curve of her index finger gently aligned with her mouth) um…
*expect, what can we EXPECT of our editor
Noriko Nakada says
I need a sum of 15… it might be strong writing to keep me at the page even if the story isn't (Michael Ondaatje's The English Patient). If the writing is okay but the plot moves I'll stick with it (Alice Sebold's The Lovely Bones). In glancing through my shelves I favor writing with a strong unique voice and have a high-than-average-tolerance for non-traditional plot structures: The Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien, Wild Meat and the Bully Burgers by Lois Ann Yamanaka, Beloved by Toni Morrison and MAUS by Art Spiegelman.
Great post and conversation!