I’m sure we all have novels that we gave up on after 10, 20, 50 pages, because while we were excited at first it just didn’t end up working. When do you reach that point when you know a novel is going to work? When do you know when it’s an idea you want to stick with to the very end of the novel?
As reader Roberto Suarez Soto asks:
You may start your book strong and confident, or doubtful and hesitating. But there’s a point when you know that it’s going to work … or not. Maybe your initial strength diluted away, or maybe your initial doubts created a lot of conflict that ignited your plot. By that point your book should have momentum, should propel itself onwards; if it doesn’t, you should hit “delete” and start anew.
When do people reach that point? After the first chapter? After the first paragraph? After the first word?
Rick Daley says
When ink is drying on the contract.
(Not you, Bryan, actual ink 😉
Ink says
I was a little worried there for a moment…
Josin L. McQuein says
I think this is the thing that trips so many "idea" people up.
They get what they think is an awesome idea for a story, but don't have any of the story itself in mind. They fire off twenty pages or so without a direction in mind and then can't sustain the storyline because there was no real plot to go with the idea and no ideas to act out the plot. Then, they get bogged down in trying to make those twenty pages work instead of tossing them out or reworkig them.
Carolyn V. says
Usually by chapter two.
T. Anne says
I once 'pants' a novel and end up with 50k of trouble. That's the only novel I gave up on. Now I use a loose guide to get me to the end. If I over outline, I seem to kill the novel. However, every now and again I hit the end and still feel meh about the work. Those novels I just consider practice.
Christine Macdonald says
When you feel it in your heart. If it works for you, you're already there. If you attract an audience, even better. It has to work for you, the writer, otherwise there is no point.
V says
I know that a project will work when I feel the need to write it down.
I do most of the plotting, character building, world building, dialog bits, and so on for my novels in my head before I ever sit down at the computer. This "pre-writing" stage occurs when I'm working out, cleaning, or doing other things that require physical effort, but little or no mental effort. If the story idea survives that, it gets transferred from neurons to electrons via keyboard.
The competition for brain space with the other stories in my head and develops a "survival of the fittest, most interesting" scenario. When a story gets to the point where no other stories can distract me, I start typing. As a result, a lot of stories have come and gone and never seen the light of day. I also have stories I've been mentally working on for over a decade as well as new ideas to be mulled over.
Of those "survivors", I have two in active keyboard production. I find it easier to edit and revise if I have been away from the story for a while.
Lydia Sharp says
This is going to sound like a bunch of made up crap, but I actually know before I start writing it. By the time I get those first words down, I'm fully committed to finishing the project.
Fact: Lydia has never given up on a novel yet, and she doesn't plan to don that quitter's attitude anytime soon.
Don't hate me because I finish my stories. I probably just do more planning ahead than most authors. If it doesn't feel like it's going to work, I don't even start it.
reader says
Eighty pages in, unfortunately.
Unless I finish it, and then try and get an agent for it and can't. Then it's more like 240 pages.
D. G. Hudson says
At some point, you may feel the momentum starting to fail, or you reach a point where it's not clear what should happen next. I usually leave the project for a few days or weeks, while working on another.
After that time, if I can't revive it, or generate new interest in it, it's scrapped. No sense wasting time trying to revive a dying ember.
I keep a notebook of ideas that could be generated into stories or novels, so I always have another to work on. Sometimes you have to play with the idea a bit before it develops. Recognition of when we should put a project aside is a learned skill, with a good dash of 'gut-instinct'.
I just file the idea away for later use if I can't bear to part it. Files can always be ditched later.
Melissa Gill says
I've never given up on a MS all together, but I have a few under the bed with the dust bunnies. Oh, and one that's about half written, where the voice went away and I haven't been able to call him back. Someday, I hope that voice will re-appear. With the others, I hope to become a good enough writer to re-write them the way they deserve to be written someday.
scott g.f.bailey says
I'm with Ink: "I know before I start writing that I'll finish the book. Part of that is because I don't start writing right away. The idea has to prove itself first." I had a project that I'd outlined in detail, down to a list of scenes for each chapter and a big graphic chart of plot and character arcs, and I just knew that the story didn't work for me and I couldn't write it. So I wrote something else instead. I've figured out that the more I have to work in the outlining phase to come up with something attractive to me–the more I have to convince myself–the less likely I am to care enough about it to write it out. My other test is that if I can't make myself write a full chapter in one or two sittings to get the book started, then I should just bag it.
D. G. Hudson says
Correction to my last sentence — That's if I can't bear to part 'with' it (the idea).
katharrmann says
There's no magic page number for me. When I'm reading … it's when I suddenly realize I don't care about the characters. At all. That's when the book gets tossed shut.
Kristi Helvig says
I've finished every ms so far (and know I'll finish the 2 I'm working on now) because I think they work. However, as to whether they actually work or not, I'll have to wait until I jump into the query pool before I know for sure. 🙂
Lyla says
I also just finish whether I'm excited about a project or not. I'm easily distracted/discouraged and it's better to learn the discipline of finishing what I start at the moment. I haven't done it enough times!
However, I usually have the idea bouncing around in my head for a while before I decide it's worth writing.
Mike Jastrzebski says
I outline so I usually finish what I start, but I have tossed a manuscript after as many as 50 pages if it doesn't seem to be working for me.
Alice Luther says
When it surprises you over and over again . . . when subtle details connect in perfect twists—seemingly on their own accord . . . and when characters have life, and breadth, and personality independent of the writer . . .
D. G. Hudson says
After reading a few more comments, I'd like to add that I also do a lot of pre-planning and mapping.
(Rick Daley and INK keep me smiling – thanks for the humor.)
Perry says
I'm a plotter so I know it's going to work when I have plotted out the first act. If I can't get to that point, it's not going to work and I will spend (waste) a lot of time getting to the point where I accept that it's not going to work.
Jeni Decker says
You know this was a really interesting question. It's never happened to me before, so I had to figure out why. I think it's because I do a good 30% of my writing in my head before I even sit down to the computer.
The main thing, I think, is that every story has to start with me actually having something to say.
A sort of one sentence in my head that sums the book up. What it's about. Not plot or a logline. But what the story says in the grand scheme of things.
What I want the book to, in the end, convey to the reader. So if I've got nothing to say, I probably wouldn't even start that book.
Steppe says
It can be an organic natural death if your writing along and have no word count objective. An idea that works as a short story has more archetype/cliche characters and makes some small victory for this-x & that-x defeating that-y & this-y and the plot closes out because a longer conflict was not present.
If in the early chapters you state the story is a prelude to a great conflict; then if it gets shelved its because the conflict really wasn't important enough to justify getting the reader to like and dislike the main and supporting cast members.
Proofing a script numerous times makes
injecting key elements to use as plot line resolutions easier.
Personal quirk I guess but; short stories are "happy failures" and long form novel length are "neutral success" as long as they are resolved and on the shelf.
Maybe that gag: "Only so many bunnies should jump out of a hat per story" When the plots moving along gags and comedy relief are good indications of pace for the reader. But if the story is all chase scenes and sudden murders of secondary players then maybe the story is in as much danger as the supporting cast.
Wildheit says
You mean there are people out there that start writing their manuscript at the beginning?
Forgive me the pun, but what a novel idea.
Francis says
Stephen King in his memoir said he and many of his writer friends start writing spontaneously, without pre-planning and go from there… as opposed to those who plan ahead.
I'm one of those who plan. I'm not anal, I'm a perfectionist. I simply cannot dive into something without having at least an idea of where I am going. That's how I was educated already in high school all the way into medschool. Before I began writing my novel, I had a clear concept and premise with the backstory all figured out, as well as characters, even though I had no names yet.
I began writing and soon found out no amount of mapping, planning, research or drawings will help you get from each of your "writing lighthouses" to the next. What I call writing lighthouses are sort of plot navigation markers… the first thing I did was write the ending, then the beginning, and I went from there.
I think I imagined the end first, it was very tactile and alive in my head. This allowed me to know exactly where I was heading, and without having to worry about providing a "good" or "satisfactory" end, the relieved pressure allowed me more versatility in developing the story. I also didn't want to go over a certain word count (like write a 130k novel and edit 35k to bring it down to a more acceptable 95k afterwards). J.J. Abrams said he did this with Lost, already by season 3 he knew season 6 would be the last, so he and the writers could pace the show correctly by spacing the plot as they wanted, so not to give the illusion of a botched ending had ABC canceled the show early.
So I knew where each climaxes of each act should go, but getting from point A to B, then to C, D all the way to Z… well, planning doesn't help one bit. Imagination and tenacity is the only way to go.
The turning point involved one big decision I needed to take. It's a science fantasy novel, and I wasn't sure if I should create a secret and massive city, or go with a simpler urban setting… I went with the first, it worked beautifully, and that is when I knew the novel (hell, the whole premise) would work.
I think I actually heard a click in my head.
It felt really, really good. I confirmed this with my friend and first beta reader (he got the 2nd draft) when I told him the premise and his eyes sparkled.
Abby Stevens says
Ha. I constantly feel like doing that. It's so much easier to write until you get stuck and then start a new project. However, after starting 3 books, I decided I needed to finish this one, even if it turns out to be junk (which I don't *think* it is, I'm just kinda stuck right now).
I think knowing when to move onto another project isn't something clearly defined – you know when you know. 😀
Marilyn Peake says
I usually know either a few chapters in or certainly by the middle of a novel if it’s going to work. With a short story, sometimes I only know toward the end of writing it. I get the sense that a project will work if the story continues to flow, I begin to see symbolism developing within the pages, and the plot takes shape with enough conflict in it. If I hit a dead end that I can’t get past or I find that I can only "tell" rather than "show" large amounts of the story, I know the project is one that doesn’t really work. Right now, I’m editing a novel that was very difficult to write. Even with edits, I sometimes hit a wall. With this latest novel, I keep breaking through the walls and solving the problems, and I find that very rewarding. In order to know whether or not a project might work for readers, I always give the final version to a professional in the publishing industry and ask their opinion.
Liesl says
It depends on the love and commitment I began with. If I'm just testing the waters, dating my idea, then I give up fairly quickly when things go south. No reason to torture myself.
But there comes a point when I fall in love with and marry an idea. Then I refuse to give up until I've done all that I can and yet the story still dies, meaning there is no way to revive the lifeless mass of words stashed in my computer.
It doesn't always have to be burning passion, but as long as I know the story has a heartbeat, I keep going.
Marilyn Peake says
Rick Daley and Ink,
LOL. You guys make me happy I read the comments. 🙂
bcomet says
I love this question.
I have had a few starts that needed research trips to continue that have not yet become possible, so they stalled there.
Maybe someday for those.
For the ones that work *at least for me anyway* I think it is when the characters form AND the plot forms.
When the characters and the plot have a life of their own, then it's alive.
Kait Nolan says
Oh great question. I think for me it varies from book to book. I don't believe in writer's block in a traditional sense. If I'm blocked, it means that the book is telling me something is WRONG. If I haven't figured out what it is after a month or two, it's a sign that story isn't ready to be told.
Kimberly Kincaid says
Rick- HAHA! Made my day 🙂
And Lydia…I'm with you! I toss around a lot of ideas in my head, but I never actually write anything unless the idea evolves into…more. I know a novel is going to work- *really work*- when it wakes me up in the middle of the night and begs to be written. I have to keep a notepad by my bed so that I can scribble *on my way downstairs* to the computer, and that's when I know. It's like falling in love. You don't know when or where it will happen, or with whom, but when it does…wow. Once the words start coming together, I am in- hook, line and sinker.
This is not to say that I don't edit substantially- as a matter of fact, I riped out the last 100 pages of my 2nd MS and completely re-worked the entire conflict resolution and ending. I will change everything if it needs changing…but I don't abandon projects once I start writing.
Call me a glutton for punishment. What can I say? I like a challenge 🙂
Great post, Nathan!
Deni Krueger says
When I would rather watch tv instead of working on my story… that's when I know it's a bust.
Bane of Anubis says
Orange Question: Yep, ink on contract, book on shelf… otherwise, failure.
Other questions: NFC
silvia says
Mmm hard to tell… I guess it's kind of a romance thing between you and the story.
There are times when I give myself in to the act of writing without any hesitation! Totally INFATUATED with the story!!!
(Who cares if it turns out to be a best seller or just a miserable draft in my drawer! The passion, and the adrenalin that comes from the sole experience of writing the piece is well worth it!
( Like a one night stand… you're not really thinking about the tying the knot, right? hee,hee)
However, there are other times when the romance starts with some kind of "flirting". Then it grows into a more "meaningful relation" between you and the novel! Until the time is done for both to take it to a next step. Then you get this gut feeling about the story being great and you stick with it! or you may get get cold feet and simply run away! 🙂
bowenwriter says
I recently completed my second novel and was asked to write a sequel to the first one. I spent about a week outlining the sequel and then started really thinking about it. My gut told me that there was just not enough there to justify a sequel. I am however working on a sequel to the second book and I find myself wishing I could just think the words onto the page! I would say a good way of knowing is whether you can honestly feel the book coming to life. If you are forcing it, then others will see that too.
J.J. Bennett says
I'd say when you loose faith in the project yourself. I believe all stories can become something. It's whether or not you are willing to give it what it needs. Sometimes you have to examine what's standing in your way in the process. It could be a scene that doesn't work, a dirction you're finding yourself going that seems all wrong, or a portion of the idea it's self could be something that just didn't work. Whatever it is, it's your job to straighten it out. You created it didn't you?
Michael Pickett says
I don't have a set amount of time, but when I start to realize that no secondary ideas are joining the primary idea in my mind. One good idea can only take me so far. I need multiple good ideas to fit together in creative ways for me to know that something is going to work.
Jenny says
Several months in, after completing the draft.
K Simmons says
If I can write an outline, I can write the novel. That outline may change in the course of writing, but for me, the process of identifying main characters and figuring out what story they have happens before I even put my fingers on the keyboard. Once I've passed that hurdle it's just a matter of butt in chair and edit, edit, edit.
Aimee says
I got to 35,000 words before I ditched it. It took almost a year to get that far. Man, it was a terrible story. But I learned a lot from it. Not every word you write has to be publishable material. Maybe in a couple months (or years) I'll take another look at it. It might have potential…
Kristin Laughtin says
It varies. 30,000 words is a good point for at least realizing I've started the novel in the right place. I've gotten to 80,000-100,000 words before realizing there was no way I was going to fit everything into one book, though, and would have to restructure it so the first book could stand alone. I probably wasted a lot of time trying to make it work before conceding that 1) it would have to be heavily revised no matter what, and 2) it would probably have to be a series if I wanted to follow the story arc I had outlined to completion. (You'd think the outline would have let me know it wasn't working, but no! The outline seemed great. Sometimes a story just isn't as wonderful as you thought it'd be when you try to put flesh on it–or maybe you're just draping the flesh wrong and you could make it work after letting it sit for some time and gaining some perspective.)
Kelly says
With my first four (unpublished as yet) novels, I was able to push past any doubts and keep writing, but now I'm writing a YA novel and I'm stuck at four chapters. I'm just not "feeling" it like I did the others, and I'm not sure what to do. I think the problem is that there is necessarily very little humor in it (because of the serious subject matter) and that's depressing me.
Tabitha says
That's a tricky question.
If I start writing a story, then I've already formed a connection to the plot and characters. As a result, this story means a lot to me, and it's not something I will give up on easily.
So, if something's not working (I can usually figure that out early on), then I take a step back to figure out *why* it's not working. Is something missing? Is it too chaotic? Is there some aspect of writing that I need to learn? Do I need to do more research?
If I ask myself all these questions and still don't have an answer, then I will set the story aside for a while and come back to it later. I have a MG novel that I started almost eight years ago, and I finally figured out how to write it last year. It's fairly solid now (good enough to send to my agent, anyway), and I'm pretty proud of it.
I have a YA that I started over a year ago, but it was clear that something wasn't working. So I set it aside, and I'm just now getting an inkling of what will make it work. I have no idea when I'll have a solid draft, but I'll keep plugging away at it until I figure it out (and I will). 🙂
Jil says
Before I begin, I think a lot about my characters, the setting and what I want to happen. I have to like all of that before I start. The only novel I stopped writing was one that got too depressing but I went back to it later, with a different angle, and enjoyed our time together.
Naomi Canale says
I give up on a story when I loose interest and it's nothing but blab! I'm A.D.D so if I can't read what I've written a million times over I hit the…NEXT
TraciB says
With my first novel, I knew it was going to work if I just persevered and kept going back to it no matter how many times I felt stuck.
With this second one, its sequel, I'm in the 13th chapter and wondering if I need to shorten the story arc. Problem with that is, the climax of the book needs to happen at a certain point in time, and the story is about five months from that point right now. I'm not sure how to resolve the situation without sacrificing my original idea or doing a major rewrite.
So to answer your question, I apparently have no idea how or when to evaluate whether or not a story will work…
AndrewDugas says
It's like asking an architect when he knows a house is going to work. As much as I rely upon inspiration, ideas that won't go away, etc., I think one needs at least a rough blueprint before really getting under way. Nothing written in stone, but certainly more than just starting to type.
Granted, I allow an exploratory phase in which I'll write out scenes that come to me (don't we always start out with one or more specific and compelling scenes in mind?) and work out an arc indicated by those scenes.
So I guess I know it's going to work when I have enough scenes worked out and an pretty solid idea of the arc and storylines.
That's when I really sit down to start writing.
Other Lisa says
When I type "End" and sometimes not even then.
Erica75 says
I'm guessing that I have about a dozen three-page starts lying around. So, for me, 3 pages adn they languish. I have a couple hovering at the 30-page stage and those are keepers, just wasn't the right time. My first completed (60,000 word) ms – heard voices for a month, wrote for 3 months, knew I had something. Wish that would happen everytime, but of course, it doesn't for anyone (human, that is).
Victoria Dixon says
I agree with Cameron. The only real way to know if it has a shot is to complete a first draft. Find the plumb parts and rework from there.