Only if you need to.
It’s essential for authors get some sort of editorial feedback on their manuscript and/or query letter from someone they trust before trying to find an agent. That could be a significant other, a critique partner, a friend, a mortal enemy… someone.
The advice should be positive, useful, strike you with the occasional, “Why didn’t I see that?!” moment, and, perhaps most importantly, should be consistent with your vision for the project. In other words, the critiquer shouldn’t simply be telling you how they would have written it. Here’s how to know if you have a good editor.
On the other hand, if you don’t have someone you can show your work to and you need feedback or if you would like some input from someone who has worked in the business: by all means, consider a freelance editor. There are some wildly talented editors out there who can really help authors with their manuscripts for a fee. (Including, well, me)
However, before you mortgage the farm to pay a freelance editor, keep the following in mind:
Don’t spend money on a freelance book editor you can’t afford to lose
If it feels like too much money it is definitely too much money. Feedback is helpful, but not at the expense of funds that could be better used elsewhere. If you can spare it and it won’t hurt a whit, go for it. Otherwise: there are plenty of free ways to get good feedback.
Check the editor’s credentials
Find out what their experience is, who they’ve worked with in the past, and whether the amount they are charging is commensurate with their experience. Do your research and only work with an editor with whom you are completely comfortable.
Here’s how to find a freelance book editor.
Keep your expectations in line
Bear in mind that the mere fact that you’ve worked with an editor is not going to boost your chances with an agent (or at least, not with me). A few agents I have been on panels with feel that it is a benefit if an author has worked with an editor. Me? Not so much. I assume an author received feedback and edited accordingly to make it better. I don’t think you get a bonus because you paid for it.
Agents don’t care about typos
Copyediting is not really very necessary prior to submitting to agents. Barring a learning disability, your own grammar and spell-check-assisted spelling skills should be sufficient to ensure that your manuscript has only the occasional typo, which an agent will not worry about.
Do not let an editor submit to agents on your behalf.
When I was an agent, I would occasionally get submissions directly from paid editors who submit for their clients. Opinions vary on this, but in my opinion this is a bad idea. I want to hear directly from the author I’m potentially going to be working with. If you’re going to engage an editor, do so only for manuscript feedback. You should be handling the rest on your own.
An exception to this would be if the agent and the editor know each other extremely well on a personal level and the editor is just facilitating the intro.
Know what you’re paying for
Make sure you have a very clear understanding of what you’re paying for and what you’re getting up front. Make sure you and the editor have a clear understanding about what you hope to get out of the edit. And make sure you’re communicating well.
Watch out for scams
There are quite a few unscrupulous fake agents and fake editors out there. Google the person you’re thinking of working with, and, again, check their credentials. Beware of anyone overpromsing what they can really deliver.
There’s no magic bullet
Keep your expectations in check. The editor is helping you with your manuscript: it’s up to you to make the changes, and their help is no guarantee that your project will find representation or publication. The goal is to help you improve your manuscript, but the rest is ultimately up to you.
Basically: Do your research, keep your eyes open, but don’t be overly paranoid either. There are freelance editors out there who provide a valuable service, and assuming you find the right match their feedback can be a real help as you keep on plugging away toward representation.
Need help with your book? Iām available for manuscript edits, query critiques, and consultations! And if you like this post, check out my guide to writing a novel.
Art: The moneychanger and his wife by Marinus van Reymerswaele
Thank you! This is good to know. I've often seen things advertised, but our budget does not allow for me to do more than I am doing now.
A friend showed me her work both before and after she worked with a book doctor. Everything original and interesting had been removed. In the quest to make it salable, it had become bland.
Remember, if everyone finds it acceptable, no one finds it exciting.
That novel never sold. My friend would have been better served by a critique group or beta readers, I think.
Good advice. Unfortunately I'm a swedish writer and agents are non-existant in Sweden. Or next to it. Anyway, my editor is doing a good job and I trust her. She is also my coach. In fact I started by payiong her. Now she's paying me. Fair isn't it?
Useful tips. I've done my own editing, MS Word doesn't understand Proper English vs. American English spelling on some things, and their grammar check is often confused by tense. I do my best to determine if it's right or if I am. Not only are there scam artists posing as editors, but publishers as well, and had I found that checklist on good and bad earlier, I may have avoided them.
My problem right now, is the genre I'm submitting for is not known to publish my gender, and my actual name too closely resembles another well known author. I have narrowed down nom de plumes (psuedonyms) for each genre I intend to write for(Romance,Scifi,Crime, other).
Though I have self-published works on Amazon, convincing people to buy my on-demand books is frustrating.
I have used an unbiased proof reader for an original draft and used their suggestions, almost like an editor I suppose, but not verbatim use of their idea.
Budget is an issue, I'm a bottom rung employee in construction, I can't afford top dollar for help. I have to rely on my own skills as a writer to prove my material is worthy.
I follow you on twitter because you were suggested, for people like me, looking to publish, as one of 25 good follows.
Thanks
John Ross Harvey
Rule 1: applicable to all facets (and the mantra of gamblers, methinks).
Rule 4: very good to know — particularly given my proclivity to forget the occasional preposition no matter how many times I reread the stupid thing.
Thanks!
I've considered this deeply. It can be quite expen$ive. I suppose if self publishing was my goal it would be necessary but I'm still on the fence. I wouldn't mind a source of great editors to choose from if anyone knows of some reputable people.
My last comment was from gmail account which differs from blogger account, for reasons I know not. Why I cannot use a gmail for blogger by google is beyond me.
John Ross Harvey
you can now link my blogger site
I'm glad to hear that the occasional typo won't hurt – I'm always horrified when I find one just after I've submitted a partial.
Good post. Check the credentials is probably the most important of your points.
I know of self-published authors who are charging new writers to edit their work. One guy, who joined my critique group,asked me to look over part of his manuscript after he paid the so-called editor. It was a hotchpotch of constant repetitions of the same story, no less.
The interesting points he glided over, never developed. It took me three hours to write a critique of two chapters. It was an exercise in extreme diplomacy as well as constructive criticism. This, after he paid rather dearly for editing.
Supposedly the editor wasn't just copy editing either. Buyer beware.
I ended up getting an editor for my first novel and it cost me $1,500. The editor came highly recommended from a friend. The only catch was that this editor had only worked on non-fiction before. I got my edits, loves them and then ran my book through a critique group and learned the hard truth: the book was all telling, no showing, riddled with passive sentences, filled with plot holes, but the grammar was okay, sparkling even for the most part.
The lesson I learned is that I sought out an editor before the book was ready. I had only completed the first or second draft of the book and I hadn't really learned some basic rules of writing a novel that I needed in place before taking the editor route.
My suggestions to writers considering the editor route, may sure you have exhausted other avenues first. Find a critique group with a mixed background. My current group has literary and genre writers, published and unpublished. Find some beta readers you can trust. There are a great deals of blogging writers out here with various strengths who are blogging and sharing information and writing tips, find the best tips and apply them to your novel. Go through a few drafts of your novel before you even consider an editor.
Thanks for the advice.
My wife is a sweetheart and gives my work the fine-tooth, but even between the two of us I occasionally find typos after I send stuff out. Now I can sleep nights.
I'm very fortuante that a woman I first met as a writer has now set up her own editing business, and bless her, gives deep discounts to friends in her critique group. I'd never be able to afford her otherwise. It's not inexpensive, but as the saying goes, you get what you pay for (so long as you do the research first to make sure it's not a scam). Her help was invaluable, especially when I first started. With one editing pass, she taught me so much about how NOT to make errors.
T. Anne, I'd love to recommend her to you, but won't use Nathan's blog for advertising. Check reputable writing magazines, check with friends, ask at some of the bigger online writer hangouts. Plus remember, this is a business expense. Tax write-off.
While I understand that some people may want the input of an experienced editor, I thought I'd give another benefit of critique groups. You learn just as much, sometimes more, by critiquing the work of others as you do having your own work critiqued. Critique groups are free and you get feedback from multiple people rather than one editor. I also use other trusted beta readers for grammar, etc. Since I write for children, I found my main critique group through SCBWI and it's been the best thing I've done to further my writing – just an idea for people that haven't tried that avenue yet.
That was an excellent post for two reasons: 1.) Feedback on query letters and manuscripts can be extremely helpful and 2.) Writers who are serious about writing usually work incredibly hard and have such huge dreams, itās easy for them to get ripped off as newbies by handing over money to people without proper credentials. There are so many ethical, qualified people and writersā groups that offer editing services, itās up to the author to evaluate credentials and choose the most qualified. So far, I havenāt used editing services prior to submission, but I think a qualified editor could be invaluable for an objective evaluation of a manuscript.
I recently had my short story, BRIGHT MOON- -fantasy genre, about an infant faerie taken in by a peasant family in modern-day China- -accepted for publication on the blog you had recommended in your own blog last month: the GLASS CASES blog run by editor Sarah LaPolla. She suggested I leave out the first three paragraphs in my short story, and start it instead with the fourth paragraph. Her advice was spot-on. Leaving out the first three paragraphs tightened up the story, allowed it to begin with the real action of the story, and made it better. She seems to have a good eye for editing. I'm looking forward to having my short story published on her blog!
#6 made me smile.
I paid an editor for a Manuscript Evaluation and thought I would be getting a report about the nuts and bolts of my novel. Instead, I received one that covered overarching issues that needed to be addressed. This frustrated me because I needed more specific and detailed help, not some Big Picture Examination.
Turns out, after I stewed about it for two weeks, I realized she was right. There were some big changes that needed to be made and a slew of words to be hacked out. I wasn't ready for the fine tuning yet.
I often speak to groups of writers about what to look for in an editor. The reality is, unless you understand the rules of grammar, usage, and punctuation yourself, thereās no way to know if your editor is any good. Itās important to learn that stuffāitās all part of the craft of writing. Otherwise, youāre just a storyteller.
Terry said:
"I know of self-published authors who are charging new writers to edit their work. One guy, who joined my critique group,asked me to look over part of his manuscript after he paid the so-called editor. It was a hotchpotch of constant repetitions of the same story, no less."
There are also self-published and small press authors with no track record of real best-seller status charging large sums of money for book promotion services. (Sometimes they refer to themselves as having "best-seller" books, but that might only mean that their book reached "best-seller" status for one hour or one day in one genre on an online bookstore site. To explain, that means that, for that particular hour or day, their book sold more copies than any other book in that particular genre on that site. So, for example, if no other books were sold in that genre and someone bought one copy of your book in that hour or on that day, youāre a "best-seller". If another book then sold 1,000,000 copies the very next day, youāre both "best-sellers", but hardly with the same sales record!) As a newbie, I handed over money to several book promotion businesses, finding out later that they were using other authorsā money primarily to promote their own books. Oh, the days of being a newbie author can be very, very difficult! Thatās not to say, by the way, that all self-published and small press authors canāt provide great editing or book promotion sevices. You have to look at the quality of their work to see what theyāre capable of. Also, some authors will promote other authorsā work for free. Iāve sent my small press paperbacks to science fiction/fantasy conventions with authors wanting additional books to sell at their display tables, and thatās been a wonderful experience.
Thank you so much for posting on this topic, Nathan.
I found an editor I would love to work with, but cannot afford…yet.
That is tough on me because I feel my work is almost there and now it is on hold while I see what else I can do. I am aware that I am a newbie writer and that some things are showing that shouldn't.
So, in the meantime, I am (really a basket case thing) writing another novel! And the first thing I think is oh boy, if I could use that same editor on this project too.
The thing with chasing down the credentials is that they are hard to find.
There are a lot of "specialty" editors that just want to do what they think is popular (word count/ action-action-action). That worries me. Also, there are some that can't write at all but say they can. Not a good sign.
One of the other things is that we all hear that the agent-writer and the editor-writer relationship is so chummy. But some editors are not about becoming your new best friend
while others are so your new best friend that you may feel great having them in your life and that may be what you are paying for.
Anyway, there seems to be a lot of slippery slope out there.
Critique groups are essential for a lot of us and pull us through or forward anyway.
The thing is, when I DO get my hands on that $5,000. to edit my book, and when I can afford it, holy moley, will I do it? I don't know. $1200. would really be more up my alley and I can't dig up any credentials on that price range of help either.
It would be way cool if there was a writer site about different levels of cost and expertise for writers in need of editing -especially developmental editing help.
Vegas Linda Lou said:
"The reality is, unless you understand the rules of grammar, usage, and punctuation yourself, thereās no way to know if your editor is any good. Itās important to learn that stuffāitās all part of the craft of writing."
I agree with you. There are small press and self-published books that are amazing, with impeccable grammar and sentences that practically sing. But, without understanding the rules of grammar, usage, and punctuation, it would be impossible to recognize whoās really good and capable of providing good editing services. The same for submitting short stories to anthologies ā itās only helpful to submit your short stories to anthologies that have really good editors.
I have mixed feelings about my experience with an editing company.
I researched a number of online companies and settled on that gave me a great sample critique/edit and was extremely professional. There was also a great deal of positive feedback on the website, and the editor assigned to me had a great deal of experience based on her bios ā and checked out when I research the books sheād written.
Overall, I learned a great deal about some of the things I needed work on a sentence level. She made a great deal of cuts, a large part of which I agreed with. She caught a number of small issues ā such as a time of day shift I didnāt account for, for example ā and made suggestions where clarification was needed.
On the other hand, the work was sloppy as hell. I expected ā as I was told and specifically requested ā that I would be getting a line edit in addition to the suggestions/commentary. I think the editor made more typos that she fixed, and it just got worse further along in the manuscript. She was even typing in the wrong name for my character, over and over. She also made the comment āthe last half of the book needs to move more quicklyā and started hacking two to three paragraphs at a time and condensing them to one typo filled sentence.
In the end, I complained to the head of the company about the situation. I was offered a partial refund and a second edit with a different editor. I passed on the refund, and accepted the offer to have a new editor do a second line edit to try and clean up the mess ā as in, the extra typos the first editor created. While the line edit was appreciated, it took the second editor three weeks longer than promised to complete the task. And I still caught typos she missed. Now we all no perfect isnāt possible, but for a paying customer it better be darn close.
So, do I regret the money I spent? Despite the frustrations, Iāll still say yes. As Nathan said, the biggest factor was that I was able to afford it without any hardship financially, so what I did gain from the process made the investment worth it as a whole. And I ended up doing more revisions, so I might have sent in too early of a draft anyway to expect a typo free finished product. But on the other hand, maybe I wouldnāt have got to my current draft, which Iām very happy with and almost ready to query, without this experience. Who knows? In the end, Iām happy with where I am with the manuscript now and the knowledge I gained from the experience.
Phew. Sorry, that was a novella. š
Thanks for the post, Nathan.
Completely unrelated question if you have a moment:
What sort of etiquette is there for making contact with an agent's assistant? Should a writer query an assistant in the same manner that they would an agent? Should they attempt to form a less professional rapport, so that the assistant will smile when they pass the query to their boss?
"The advice should be positive, useful, strike you with the occasional, "Why didn't I see that?!" moment, and, perhaps most importantly, should be consistent with your vision for the project."
I beta read occasionally, and this sentence was an excellent reminder of what I should achieve.
I think it's most important that you know what you are getting. In my experience, writers love edits. Whenever I suggest a quick fix, the writer jumps on it immediately. But when I point out structural problems – a passive hero, a sequence of scenes that doesn't make a plot – the writer often either disagrees openly, or ignores the advice.
The trouble is if you ask for an edit, that's what you are going to get even if it won't make the book publishable because bigger issues have been ignored. Try beta readers and critique groups first. Maybe, you won't need an editor after all. For an editor to be useful to you, you need to identify the problem clearly and determine that it is indeed an editor who can be most beneficial.
I would hate to see some boiler plate slice and dice editing of a writer like Thomas Pynchon – and I find him extremely hard to read. But his voice is so unique – the world would not be the same without him.
I think that an editor must know how to hold up a writer's voice and care for it – or pass on a project.
Anyway, I was impressed by editors who asked(free of charge) to read a WIP first before even deciding to take on a project. (i.e., can this work be helped by editing and is it a work the editor will be happy or proud to be associated with -in that associations work both ways?)
Good advice! Thanks Nathan.
By all means, go with a stable of beta readers instead. From this, you can pull the ones you jive with best, and get on with it. If you're broke to begin with, don't make yourself and your book more broke by paying a book doctor!
Great advice. It's interesting to hear an agent's perspective on this.
Marilyn Peake said: "There are also self-published and small press authors with no track record of real best-seller status charging large sums of money for book promotion services."
Not to double up on quotes, Marilyn, but I haven't heard of that – yet. More scams.
I'm not sure what the "editor" I mentioned said her credentials were. I sometimes think aspiring novelists are perceived as chumps, a veritable cottage industry unto ourselves, to sell myriad, and often spurious, services.
I felt bad for the guy, whose work I mentioned, because, as I see it, he had been taken. His idea was good, he just didn't yet know even the basics of how to put a fictional story together.
So many people think if they pay for something it must be good. That "editor" didn't do him any favors.
I do freelance editing on occasion, and I am so happy to read all of Nathan's great advice here. Most people who want to hire me are nowhere near ready for an edit. As a number of commenters say here: first learn to write. Take courses and join critique groups. Learn the nuts and bolts. Write and rewrite. Then, if something isn't coming together, or you can't get a nibble on your query after many tries, or you'd just like to give it a final polish (and if you're self-publishing, you MUST ) look for a good editor. (And if any of them promise you publication–run. It's a scam.)
My experience with three different editors working their miracles on two of my manuscripts was a disaster. Their credentials were excellent but their actual editing work was Non sequitur.
But, we all need skills of others to have our stories reach higher levels. It isn't words alone that do that, but rather how you combine them in outlook, opinions, details, delivery and original perspectives that brings your tale to life. Go beat your drum and ask for help.
Nathan, do you have anything that you'd suggest asking an editor before we sign a check? How can you tell if someone is qualified.
And, I know a writer who paid to have the first thirty pages or so edited–to see what types of 'sins' she was committing, so she could check the rest of her MS herself for them. I thought it a good plan.
Okay, let me respond from one editor's point of view.
First, great post, Nathan. I agree with everything you said. I try to discourage novelists from spending wads of money to have me edit their work. And I always encourage them to find a critique group instead. I don't need to exploit starving young novelists to make my living, thanks.
But some persist. What I push for is that they have me help them polish a few chapters (maybe thirty pages). The publisher should foot the bill for editing the whole book. And self-publishing fiction is hardly ever a good idea.
Your point about a few typos being okay is good to know. But some writers can't get to "few" by themselves. For them, I think editors can provide a valuable service.
The other help someone like me can provide is some basic coaching to a writer who has never really had a decent critique before. And this kind of quick review can be cheap or free.
One other tip for you writers out there who are thinking about finding an editor: ask anyone you contact to do a sample edit of a couple of pages. Some will get huffy and refuse, I guess. But of the one who comply, you can quickly judge whose editing style is most useful to you and most consistent with what you're looking for.
I want to do it on my own and submit the undiluted brilliance that is…me.
Also I am poor.
"… of the one who comply…" Sheesh! I hate it when I make a typo in a post touting my editing. Make that "of the ones who comply."
If you're gonna be a pro writer, you should be able to self-edit your own work! Sheesh. Ridiculous! I could see wanting to get storytelling feedback–a pro editor's take on the actual plot, premise, characters, etc. But line/copyediting? The writer should have that totally under control on their own.
Oh, the perks of being married to an aspiring author who also majored in English!
My wife is a brutal editor (more than once she's told me that an idea I'm excited about is "just stupid" or "doesn't make any sense"). But, man, I don't know what I'd do without her help and suggestions.
I'm with Marsha – I am poor; therefore, I rely on myself for grammar/spelling issues and some terrific beta readers for the bigger problems (plot, character, too much description, etc.). For now, I think I'll be okay without an editor… but if it comes to that, I really appreciate having this list of tips, Nathan.
Thanks, too, to Marilyn – as always, your additional info is equally helpful!
Ha Laura, I was going to say the same thing (poor comment and all) – so I guess I'll just say "ditto to Laura's comment."
Thanks, Laura. I'm so glad to hear that. I feel passionately about books, writing and publishing, and never know if Iām blabbing on and on too much. : )
Fantastic advice, as usual. It's nice to know that the occasional typo slides under the radar when agents are reading. I get stressed about that kind of thing.
I'm a multi-published writer (fiction and non)who works part-time as a freelance editor. I don't charge nearly $5000 for a 70K-90K manuscript. (Which doesn't mean I'm cheap).
The biggest problems with clients' manuscripts I've evaluated/edited are passive writing, globs of back-story and what I term assumptive actions, i.e., describing a character's every move from, say, switching off a vehicle's ignition to grabbing a purse, unlatching the seat-belt, and opening/shutting the car door to striding a sidewalk to ringing the doorbell.
Loads of those and a general tell-passive voice is killer.
Copy/line editing is done along with editing for story; the latter is why my revision notes sent to a client average 40 pages.
May I add, clients need to know what they want from a freelance editor. Human grammar-checking/typo-catching? Or evaluation for story, plot, POV, characterization, natural dialogue, continuity, et al.?
If all the above, which mimic stages a contracted book undergoes during the publishing process, then that constitutes many, many labor-intensive hours! Or it darn well better.
Editing isn't a matter of conforming a novel to the status quo, but as Elmore Leonard famously says, "Cutting the parts people don't read." And enhancing the parts and the unique voice in those they do!
Excellent post, Suzann. Thanks.
I'm tough on my assumptives, although I will keep a "he/she reached out and" now and again to punch up a dramatic moment.
Very helpful stuff.
I have dyslexia and have been known for getting some words mixed up resulting in that old "close but no cigar" and sometimes *way* off.
I don't know what I would do without the laughter that causes between my husband and myself. He roots them out and finds them endearing.
I learn and grow and appreciate the help. It is the story I am trying to put out and I don't want those words tripping over everything.
My crit group helps too, but they are less amused by my mistakes and more invested in my storyline.I find that help comes from many sources.
A writer takes (this one anyway) a village.
Now, if she can FISH/HUNT and edit… hey, done deal! (even let her pilot my boat – use my guns, yes, I clean the critters)!
Haste yee back š
Gosh, typo in my comment too.
I don't regret using the editor.
Some of us writers just don't have a keen eye when it comes to line editing, and I'll be the first to admit it's a weakness of mine that I strive to improve on.
Granted, a manuscript I query will have many more passes of editing that my comment did. š
I concur wholeheartedly.
While I find that another set of eyes can be very helpful at times, the help usually comes from someone who is excited about my work–or at least invested in my life.
Besides, why would anyone pay for an editor when they could simply bribe one with donuts? (Kidding, kidding).
Perhaps it's just me, but something about paying a large chunk of money for editing smacks a bit of laziness. As Nathan said, a few typos are no big deal. The book will run through a copyeditor anyway in the publication process. An editor at the publishing house will suggest revisions which could be small or huge depending.
If you want to pay for what essentially a good crit partner can/should do, and you have that kind of money to spend (wish I did), then by all means. Personally I'd want an editor who was familiar with my genre. While not necessary for good editing, if I'm going to pay, I want someone who might see things because they are familiar with what's going on currently in my genre. I'd want mostly big picture things like plot holes, pacing, character development, and so on. If you feel the need to pay for line edits, I think the money would be better invested in a couple of english courses at the local college.
None of these things are something I think any writer needs to pay for. They can be learned. It takes time and patience. Hiring an editor is not a short cut to making that ms what it needs to be. A writer should be able to handle a lot of this stuff. It's not rocket science. It's not easy either, but the materials and people to teach you how to accomplish what an editor does are out there and mostly for free. Take advantage of it. Use the money for other things like taking in a conference or three.
In case it helps, I offer a list of established children's-YA book doctors/freelance editors/writing coaches here: https://www.cynthialeitichsmith.com/lit_resources/for_writers/writers_reading_list/perspiration2.html
There are some wonderful on-line genre specific critique groups that are free and provide a variety of perspectives. This is a great resource to many writers. Also some groups have beta readers that provide solid feedback to a writer. My policy when someone asks me to beta read is that I will read up to 30 page and provide feedback/review/critique and return it to them. If we both feel that we are a good fit then we can proceed further. This way no one feels stuck. And even then I think a writer should have a couple of readers. Each person will catch something different but when everyone catches the same thing then you know you have an issue to address with your story.
This is great, thank you for sharing. I've been pondering this very thing for months.
I think it's also important to distinguish between the varying levels of editing that an editor might do. Many people here are confusing copyediting with line editing with developmental editing, and each level of editing will have a different cost and require different chops:
Developmental editing looks at the characterization, plot, pacing, worldbuilding, all that kind of stuff–big-picture stuff. Very rarely would an editor point out typos at this stage because it'll probably all change. (Exceptions to this, at least for me, are when someone is consistently misusing or downright abusing a part of speech or punctuation, such as ellipses.)
Line editing looks deeper at the craft of sentences and paragraphs, but might not catch every "typo" because the understanding is still that it could all change.
Copyediting and proofreading look only for grammar, punctuation, typos, and that sort of thing. You really are unlikely to need this kind of editing prior to submissions unless you're dyslexic (and I mean this seriously–I've worked with an author who is dyslexic and he told great stories, but needed help with certain things because he just didn't see those typos, and that's fine). And even then if you can get a trusted friend who is good at English to look at it first before hiring an editor, you'll save yourself some money.
Thanks for this post, Nathan. I think a lot of times people who are new to publishing just don't know where to start–they might not even have heard of writing groups. I always prefer to work with writers who have done as much as they can before coming to me, so that they feel they have gotten their money's worth–and sometimes (probably most of the time) they end up not needing me. And that's definitely okay.