Greetings! It’s another edition of Can I Get a Ruling, aka that time when you vote on whether my pet peeves are signs of prescience or insanity.
Next up: twenty-something. Or thirty-something, forty-something, or a hundred-and-forty-something. As in a character is “[age in factor of ten]-something” years old.
I have to admit: when I see the phrase [number]-something my brain kind of shuts down.
Here’s why (I think). It’s just so unspecific. There’s a huge difference between a twenty-one year old and a twenty-nine year old. I suppose twenty-“something” is supposed to be somewhere in the middle, but why not just say how old they are? “Something” is longer than every number from one to ten, so it’s not as if you’re saving characters.
At the same time, maybe saying “twenty-seven” is too much information and the specificity is somewhat distracting?
If you’re reading this by e-mail or through an RSS reader, please click through for the poll:
Jil says
MY readers are going to learn things much more personal than my character's age, so i think they must know that too. It makes a difference in many ways. for example: At eighteen Jane had never been kissed or, At forty two Jane had never been kissed.
Poor Jane…
Sara says
If one character is estimating another character's age, that doesn't bother me. Age can be hard to guess.
However, I am 29 now and definitely agree with your assessment of the difference between 21-29.
Anonymous says
"The thirty-four-year-old initiate gazed down at the human skull cradled in his palms."
(Opening line from THE LOST SYMBOL)
~Anonymonopeia
Anonymous says
CORRECTION:
it's not the opening line, but it's in the beginning.
~Anonymonopeia
Scott says
Can I get a ruling on polls that don't have don't have my answer? ;^)
Just kidding, but age should be important in a novel. If it's too general, than we're being forced to assume the characters are basic archetypes and therefore it's more of a plot-driven genre yarn. Which is fine, but that could be a problem if that's not what the author is writing.
"Just this side of 25" or "barely into her thirties" says a little more without being overly specific. I would guess that most shorthand it for query purposes, not realizing they're watering anything down.
Robert A Meacham says
First, I belive that a pet peeve is that final line of defense from going insane. Write the age of the character for specificity or count the number of times you tie your shoes and go insane. For me, I wear shoes without laces unless I am attending a 40 something formal affair…oops!
Scott says
Bah, I've got a clear ruling on "no comment edit function". :^P
Anonymous says
"The thirty-four-year-old initiate gazed down at the human skull cradled in his palms."
Geez, I just can't get over that sentence. That is high art! isn't that xactly the kind of thing every MFA wishes they could write? That THESE are the types of sentences you need to write in order to capture th collective imagination of America (and the world's) reading public?!
Wowza!
Becks says
I think it depends on who you're talking about. If its the main character, then of course you should know their age. But if its someone the character is describng (whose age they don;t know) or a minor character, then -something is all right.
Anonymous says
Twenty-something (et alia) … ugh! If you can't give a real age (TMI?), what's wrong with "late twenties" or similar? It's more precise and doesn't sound so much like the idiom current a decade ago.
JohnO says
It's just a piffle our pernicious language. As everyone who's ever sweated a spelling bee knows, we already have the following horrendously hard to spell words:
quadragenarian – 40 – 49 years
quinquagenarian – 50 and 59 years
sexagenarian – 60 and 69 years
septuagenarian – 70 and 79 years
octogenarian – 80 and 89 years
nonagenarian – 90 and 99 years
Since that's incomplete, all we need to do is consult our handy list of Greek prefixes to coin some fresh new hard to spell words.
Thus, twenty-something = icosagenarian
thirty-something = tricontagenarian
… and the highly useful ten-something = decagenarian
That help?
Giles says
I can't agree more! It's like when someone states that a "Number" of ants moved in and stole the picnic. How many ants is a "number?" One is a number, so is ten billion. Be more specific, please.
On the other hand, if the author is talking about a group of people, it doesn't bother me. Like if they're talking about a dance club populated by an age range from 21 to 29, then I think the term is okay… but only in group context.
Jessica says
I'd vote for neither. Unless I'm reading YA, I really don't care how old the characters are, either specifically or non-specifically. I should hopefully get an impression in fairly short order whether the character is youngish, youngish but old enough to do just about anything, in middle years, been around for more than a handful of decades, or ready for the home. Even narrowing it down to a decade is more information than I care about.
Anonymous says
I agree – state the age. Not that I'll discard a book automatically if that info isn't there. But certain ages are indicative of often specific life events. For instance, I write romance, and if a character is 25, and she's still a virgin – now that I'll throw across the room. Not remotely believable, IMO.
If she's 25 and debating whether or not to finish grad school, I'm right there with her. Stating a specific age can be a great way to get across characterization.
terryd says
This has the stench of pop-sociology and is something up with which I will not put!
Even worse: child of the name-the-foul-decade-of-your-weaning.
RDJ says
It depends. If we're experiencing a scene from a character's point of view, then knowing that character's age is cool — they, presumably, know their own age, and so we too should have access to it.
If, on the other hand, it's someone else the POV character runs into, well, the POV character wouldn't necessarily know the other person's age, so being too specific might be jarring. I recently read a thriller in which the POV character ran into a boy of fourteen — his age repeated half a dozen times — and it bothered me: how does he know how old the kid is?
Marsha Sigman says
I am specific about age when it comes to characters I write about. I tend to write mainly middle grade and YA, and I think at those ages specifics are important. Remember when someone asked your age back then and you said '9 1/2' or '11 and 9 months'?
I like to know how old a character is when I'm reading too. But if we are talking about real life..at some point we are allowed to be vague…or even lie.
Elaine 'still writing' Smith says
I'm probably not the only person to post this but I'm namowrimo planning and feeling more }:( than 🙂 with no time to read everyone else's thoughts.
I think the usual rule applies: reveal the age, fairly early on, rather than state it.
WORD VERIFICATION: consol – Star Trek-ian images abound!
Genella deGrey says
If a real person says (insert number)-something, I get it. I don't wish to push the subject of their age. But for characters in books, yeah, need to know the age so that I can identify with them.
🙂
G.
Ash. Elizabeth says
What if a character's name isn't supposed to be revealed till later on in the novel due to undercover-ness (fully aware that isn't a word) ??? Jw. . .Thanks.
Chase March says
Ya know what?
I don't often know the age of my friends or colleagues. And I've always been terrible at guessing. So if I can peg it down to 20's, 30's or 40s, I'm happy with that. If a narrator does the same thing, I can really identify with that.
Unless the age really matters to the story, I think twenty-something is fine.
jen-lehmann says
More appropriate if you're talking about a group of characters that are near the same age, but not exactly the same age. And okay if the main character is describing another character known only vaguely. But the main character should have an exact age.
Of course, until two months ago, I was 29 and didn't object to being twenty-something. 🙂 I am not ready to embrace thirty-something.
Who are we? says
If it's used to give information about the character — ie. he/she is the type who would never give his/her true age, relying instead on a cliche he/she thinks makes him/her (jeesh this gets tiring…) seem sophisticated and cavalier, then it makes sense. Otherwise, yes, seems lazy. Or cliche. Or both.
Anonymous says
a "Number" of ants moved in and stole the picnic
"Number" in this kind of example is used to indicate plurality, like saying "a group of ants or a colony of ants or a mess of ants or whatever. Nothing wrong with it. No one asks "How many ants are in a mess?" cuz you just know it's meant to mean a NUMBEr of ants–as in, a group of them.
Anonymous says
a "Number" of ants moved in and stole the picnic
"Number" in this kind of example is used to indicate plurality, like saying "a group of ants or a colony of ants or a mess of ants or whatever. Nothing wrong with it. No one asks "How many ants are in a mess?" cuz you just know it's meant to mean a NUMBEr of ants–as in, a group of them.
~Anonymonopoeia
ryan field says
I like giving specific ages for main characters. One of the things I've learned over the years from reviews (we all learn from reviewers, all of them) is that readers like details and you have to be careful about what you, as the writer, assume.
But if it's a throw away character, I'd probably just say in his or her early or late twenties, without being too specific.
Leigh Lyons says
It seems to me that it's a visual thing. You can look as someone and say "I don't know. Twenty-something?" but for books, know the friggin' age… unless the protag is looking at someone.
ann foxlee says
I agree with Chuck H., if you don't want to be specific for fear that it will distract the reader into wondering, "why 26 instead of 25 or 27?", then just use 'early', 'mid' or 'late'.
The use of _______-something just makes me think the person is lazy or doesn't care enough about the reaers to allow them to form some kind of picture in their head.
Besides, I hated that sitcom.
Botanist says
Seems to me that specifying age might be a matter of perspective. I agree that the *writer* should know the age of their characters, but if you're writing from the POV of someone else then they might need to talk in vaguer terms. How would you describe the age of someone you didn't know?
Agreed also that too specific can be unnecessarily distracting. But for me, early/mid/late twenties gets around that and works far better.
Final thought though. I think that "twenty-something" could be intended to convey more than just age. I think this kind of term is intended to convey a *type* of person, or more probably a stereotype, usually with slightly condescending overtones. If it's used deliberately in that sense rather than just from laziness then I see no problem with it.
Paige says
I've always assumed the use of the "-something" is to indicate someone uncomfortable with just stating their age. Therefore, I've also assumed it was someone in their late 20s, 30s, 40s, etc. Regardless, I do think it's way overused and it always makes me mentally flinch when I see it.
Kerry Gans says
Personally, I like to know specific ages. But sometimes it is appropriate for the book to be vague, as so many people have pointed out, and when it's done properly, I don't mind it.
And Jael stated "A 50-year-old going to Europe for the first time is different from a 20-year-old going to Europe for the first time, but a character losing her husband is a character losing her husband."
I would have to disagree – a woman losing her husband at 25 is very different from a woman losing her husband at 75. Whole different outlook on death, whole different set of life circumstances. Age ALWAYS matters.
Dawn Hullender says
To me a protagiont's age is important. From that the reader can determine a level of maturity and wisdom. It becomes easier to identify with them. After all, making our main character identifiable and likeable is the foundation of a work.
Jessie Oliveros says
Maybe if it is a minor character that the non-omniscient MC is observing, the number-something age would be appropriate since it is obviously a guess.
Annalee says
Personally, I read "twenty-something" as having a different connotation than, say, "twenty-seven."
"Twenty-something" says "this person is in that period between graduating from college and becoming a Real Grownup." It conveys a sense of being a bit adrift and between identities. I also tend to think of being "twenty-something" as a hipster thing, but that might just be because I know a lot of twenty-something hipsters.
"Twenty-seven," on the other hand, means, well, twenty-seven.
For example, I'm twenty-three, but I don't think anyone who knows me would describe me as "twenty-something." I've begun my career, I'm about to get married, and I'm house-hunting–my pretensions of not being a grownup yet were repossessed sometime in May. Meanwhile I have friends a few years older than me who are working retail, volunteering, or pursuing degrees, and are still unsure what they want to be when they grow up–and they describe themselves as "twenty-something."
(None of which is to say that I think being "twenty-something" is a bad thing at all. It's nice to live in a world where you can choose to spend several years figuring yourself out post-college. A combination of wild luck and hefty student loans just sent me off a different way).
D. G. Hudson says
This sort of generalizing began after the popularity (or not) of the Thirty-something TV show which appeared in the 1980s.
It gives the impression that the age of the character isn't important to the writer, or to the story. It could also be a Gen-X attribute.
I prefer knowing the specific age of the character.
Diana says
I voted yes, but I was actually in the middle. It depends on the character, the content, and the decade-something. While there is a whole lot of difference between 21 and 29, there isn't that much difference between 41 and 49. It doesn't start being a big difference until people get into their 70's when there is a difference between being 71 and 79.
My guess is that you're reading a whole lot more stories with characters that are twenty-something instead of forty-something, and thus your aggravation is understandable.
Lucinda says
I say tell the age of the characters unless there is a need for being vague, and then find a creative way of being vague rather than "something."
"thing" is sends me screaming anyway. Just what is a "thing?" Something or nothing, maybe just about anything or everything is still a thing. It is much like the word, "stuff."
Allison Brennan says
I think it really depends. Whose POV are you in? If you're in the character's POV she knows how old she is so let the reader know. If your POV character is assessing someone else, and their age is important to the story or setting the scene, then I would describe the age as my character would. Some characters WOULD think "twenty-something." Some characters would be more specific, "She looked thirty, but her gray roots suggested closer to forty." And if a witness is giving a description to the police, they're not going to be specific. "The robber was older than you," he said. Or "He looked about forty give or take." Or "How should I know? It happened so fast. Twenty? Thirty? Probably thirty-something."
Greg says
I'm with those who like specificity. If you have a character that is very old but who looks young (e.g. vampire, anti-aging, etc.), then of course I want to know what age they appear, and then early-20's or late-30's might be okay. Even then I prefer something like, "Though Alice had wondered the earth for 327 years, she looked not a day over 35."
Joy D. Wilson says
I think it is alright to say the character is twenty-something when your just describing the book to someone. In the book though, the real age should be reviled.
Reisa says
But it's not as annoying as saying someone is, "67 years young."
That gives me the creeps.
Heidi C. Vlach says
I figure the choice of phrasing shows the person's attitude. "Twenty-something" suggests a, "Meh, it's just a number" attitude more than someone specifically noting that they're twenty-seven.
But I can definitely see how the term is vague and potentially annoying. If you're giving information, then give it, am I right?
Josin L. McQuein says
What about someone who says they're "17 and holding" or "Forever 21" (as opposed to just shopping there 😛 )or "Trying 29… again." or "39 going on 16"
There are lots of ways to show someone who's older and holding onto their younger years.
Linguista says
It doesn't bother me. I usually give my characters ages. On occasion, if I have another character describe a lesser charater, he or she might end up "in their thirties" etc…
Becky says
I think it's important to know the main characters ages, but if the main character is describing someone they just met, I think it's okay to say he was about thirty, or she was in her early thirties.
Madara says
Why not say 'early', 'mid', or 'late' 20's, 30's, etc.?
Dawn Anon says
One year i called myself the wrong age for an entire year, then I was too embarrassed to say my age (the same age i said all of the previous year!!), so i say 40-something. It doesn't bother me at all to read the Number-somethings.
There are other things that bother me much more than that.
MelissaPEA says
Because of the TV show Thirty Something, whenever I hear an age followed by something, it sounds dated to me. Maybe "ish" should be the new something. Thirty-ish. It's also not specific but it's much more fun to say. Ish. Ish. Ish.
annerallen says
affbet–it may be accurate, but if you call a 30-year old woman "middle aged" you'll put yourself in danger of losing a part of your anatomy. Just a friendly heads-up.
I agree with other posters who say "#-something" is a cliche, but it's a useful cliche in setting a breezy, girly contemporary tone.
But if you're describing a bunch of Spartan warriors, Dwarf lords, or Zombies I'd say it's a mistake. Unless you're going for humor. Chick Lit zombie-Spartan romances anybody?
annerallen says
Reisa–I'm 100% with you on "67 years young". It's like "gone home to be with the Lord" instead of "dead."