Hey all, I’d like to take a time out from the world of publishing to discuss a blog community matter. Town hall meeting! I’ll bring the gavel if you bring the crazy guy who wants to open up the park for deer hunting.
A few weeks back the Ethicist Blog discussed the issue of anonymous commenting.
Ever since I had to close anonymous comments myself a few weeks back due to a single anon (they’ve since been re-opened), I’ve been toying with the idea of permanently closing anonymous commenting.
Here’s the thing – there are absolutely people who use the anonymous function responsibly, whether because they don’t feel like signing in or because they are writing about something sensitive.
But at least 95% of the rude comments on the blog come come from people using the anonymity irresponsibly, saying things they probably wouldn’t say if they signed their actual name. And sometimes these comments can get an otherwise good discussion seriously off track.
I’m wondering what you think – do you like having the option of going anon if necessary? Do you think it adds to the discussion to have people politely registering their anonymous comments? Should we just ignore the few bad apples?
Or would you prefer that people sign their own name?
And if we do keep anonymous options open, what should be the criteria for comment deletion?
I’m not too worried about a few bad apples and definitely don’t take the anons personally, it comes with the territory, but at the same time, it’s important to me that the comments section be a place where good, respectful discussions can take place.
Thanks, everyone!
Christine H says
Out of curiosity, I googled my name to see if comments come up as results. On the first five pages of results I got a ton of stuff that was not me. And none of it was comments.
If I google my whole name, I still get a ton of stuff that isn't me.
I tried another author and got his blog, and a bunch of stuff that wasn't him, and one comment that wasn't him.
So I don't think comments are really an issue. And you can use part of your name or even call yourself Piglet if you want to.
Anonymous says
In allowing comments at all, you are trying to encourage a healthy and useful conversation. Enabling anonymous comments generally IMPROVES that conversation, by (1) allowing some people to write more honestly and freely than they might otherwise do, and (2) allowing additional people to contribute who might not write at all if they had to reveal their true identities.
In my case, I tend to post anonymously because the folks who sign my paychecks for my day job–the one that pays the mortgage and feeds the kids–would freak out if they knew about my after-hours work, and using my real name to post here and elsewhere is not a risk I can take. So unenabling the anonymous option would eliminate me from the conversation–not the community, at least not at first, but certainly as an active participant.
Christine H says
Andrew, I usually do read all the comments. Nathan reads all the comments.
I agree with you that people give unpleasant anonymous posters too much credit. If everyone ignored them, they would get bored and leave.
I have to disagree, however, that blog comments are basically worthless. I have learned so much from the discussions on this and other writing blogs. Words always have an impact of some kind. That is why language is effective, and why we write.
Training seminars… well that's another story. But I heard that Nathan's recent seminar was extremely informative. So I guess it depends on the seminar.
usually a lurker says
This is Nathan's space, and he should set the rules that guide how it is used to develop the desired atmosphere. Anon commenting or lack thereof in someone's own space doesn't bother me.
It's like removing your shoes when you visit someone's home or observing dress code in the office – as a polite citizen you comply with reasonable codes of conduct. If you don't like the codes of conduct, you don't visit the establishment. If you can't comply, you're asked to leave (ignored or deleted, as the case may be, in cyberspace).
The stronger opinions I have about the role of anon speech in public discourse are off topic to this question I'll save it for my own blogs 🙂
TGIF!
Anonymous says
When anonymous posting is outlawed only outlaws will post anonymously!
The crazy will sound sane! The insecure will attack the innocent! Cats and dogs will intermingle, creating a new species called Cogs –or Dats! And they'll spawn Pitties or Kuppies or some other ungodly new life form to be exploited by late night pseudo-comedians Porn will be renamed pron…and people will accept the difference.
Crap.
Mrs. Letterman is having a snit. I have to go now.
Brenda says
This isn’t a comment about closing the blog to anonymous. That’s clearly ineffective.
I rarely read through all the comments on your blog, Nathan; you’re too popular. This time I did, because I was fascinated by the discussion on hurtful comments.
Are so many of us really this afraid of being insulted, or in your case, causing insult? When I find a comment offensive, it’s because, at some level, I resonate to the truth of it. I have been offended by comments in your blog; ones that I’m sure were not intended to be hurtful. They are the ones that helped me most in deciding whether writing was a good path for me and the kind of image I want to project as a writer.
Obviously, you can edit the comments as you wish, but I, for one, will miss the crunchy comments like 4:00’s.
Jan says
My comment is too far down for anyone to read, but I'm going to post it anyway for the good of my mental health.
I read a lot of writing blogs/boards because keeping up with "what's going on" is part of my job.
Now, I know here some anonymous folks have gotten out of hand and I don't blame Nathan for not enjoying that. But in the time I've spent online, I've seen three people get seriously, seriously out of hand in Internet discussions — and none of the three did it with an "anonymous" take.
One guy used a consistent handle but always belittled anyone who disagreed with him. Then one of the people who disagreed with him did the unforgivable — she achieved success with her writing. So he stalked her. And I'm not talking about just said nanny-nanny-boo-boo things on a discussion board. I'm talking about probed her personal life and personal information and made veiled threats — because, you see, she was "finable."
Another guy used his real name …well, most of the time. He also belittled everyone who disagreed with him. Sadly I used my real name so he took disagreeing with me a little further and began posting…well, unpleasant things about me around the internet. For a while, any search on my name produced pages and pages of his ranting and made up theories about me. That was fun.
The third person also used a consistent "handle" though not her name. But apparently she was an editor. She got mad at another editor (he worked in a different area of publishing from her — not vanity publishing, either — real publishing and always posted using his real name). So she went to a new message board and posted "warnings" about him. Swell…now when you google her "real" name…her record looked clean but when you googled his…you get fake "warnings" based on her being annoyed with him. That's got to be good for the guy's career.
So, forcing handles doesn't cut nuttiness unless you're forcing real names. But using your real tracable name can backfire on you in a nasty way if you're not careful. If you accidentally prod the wrong person — character assassination seems to be quite the Internet "thing."
Christine H says
Jan, I appreciate what you are saying about the dangers of identifying yourself. I was unaware of this character assassination trend, so I'm glad you posted it.
Regarding the three incidents you mentioned, I agree that those were pretty horrible examples of abuse. But at least you had a consistent idea of which comments belonged to which poster, and didn't have to sit there wondering if the person doing the ranting was the same one who had posted politely a few minutes prior.
This also allows you to set the tone of the reply, or to choose to ignore certain posters.
Of course, people can create fake identities, too, and use them to exhibit split personalities. I've known it to happen, but at least you still had a consistent idea of which persona was attributed to which comments.
Luna de Sorrow says
My vote is to keep the anon option.
One reason is that I can google my name and find comments I left on sites in the past that I have since changed positions on–I don't want to have to follow them all around and type a retraction.
I also agree that some professionals may feel less inclined to contribute if anon is not an option. Readers may feel that 2 minutes to set up an account isn't much, but if one is a busy author, publisher, editor, etc. and have a quick, helpful thought to add to the discussion, those 2 minutes make a huge difference.
Nathan this is your blog, so what do you want? Host rules.
Stephanie Faris says
Having dealt with rude commenters of my own in the past, I've found in general that people will say anything if they can hide behind anonymity. In fact, a model recently sued Google to find out the identity of the Blogger blogger who was trashing her on her blog. The name was ordered to be released and the model filed suit against her. Once the woman's name was made public, though, the model dropped the lawsuit. Point taken, I felt. If you're going to trash someone, be prepared to be publicly outed. I think it's GREAT.
Anonymous says
See the Sept. 11 poat over at Read Roger (https://www.hbook.com/blog) for an example of a fascinating conversation that would not have been nearly as rich or interesting without anonymous comments from industry pros.
Karen says
Our mothers always told us "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." That thought still applies, but it should be slightly reworded when it comes to a debate. "If you can't give your position nicely, and are not willing to own the words you speak, then don't say anything at all." If what you say could have negative repercussions for you or others, then it's best to keep it quiet, rather than speak potentially damaging words.
Anonymous says
I normally post with my real name, but I'm throwing my vote in with the people who support leaving the anonymous comments on for the following reasons:
1. anonymous comments allow people to post from work, where they might not be allowed to sign in, even under bogus id. They also allow industry professionals, like other agents and editors, to add insight to the conversations.
2. I object to the idea that it's somehow cowardly to say something without putting your name on it. There are plenty of things that I disagree with and speak out about that I don't want to be linked to my name forever on the internet.
3. I agree that people's opinions should be expressed respectfully, but requiring names (when, as people have pointed out it's so easy to set up a fake account) is not a real solution. If I were determined to be a troll, I would just set up a fake account and continue to make obnoxious comments, and we would have lost anonymous users who can follow the guidelines of civility.
4. Finally (and I know that the following metaphor is overblown and not entirely apropos, but bear with me), this reminds me of a discussion I had in law school about the Fourth Amendment (the protection against unlawful search and seizure). A woman in our class said "I don't even know why we have this right; if you're not doing anything wrong, why do you care if the police search you?" O_o Now, clearly, this is Nathan's blog and his way is the highway, but just because I'm not doing anything wrong doesn't mean I'm happy with being patted down, so to speak.
Anonymous says
Have you read the Guardian "Snark" article? I think it's tangentially related to this topic. Nastiness in internet culture and all that.
I rarely comment. When I do it's usually anonymous; I'm too lazy to sign in just to say what some of the three hundred people that commented before me have already said.
reader says
Wow, learn something new everyday, I guess. I didn't really get the uproar. I post as "reader," and had no idea that the majority of blogger ID'd commentors skipped my comments because of this. Huh.
So, if the majority of people are skipping my comments or thinking I'm a rogue commentor just because I don't have a blog, well then I guess it's fine if you go non–Anon, because my comments aren't being read anyway.
Aside from one commentor who posts quite a lot — using her own name and blog — I can't really think of anyone else on this blog that regularly starts an uproar of any kind, Anon or not. But maybe they get deleted before I read them?
It's your blog. It's your call. Do what you think is right. If having the Anon function makes your day longer or more difficult, then I'd probably cut it. Like you said, it isn't a democracy.
Carpy says
If people choose to be anon, let them. The content, as you mentioned, is what matters. We can also choose to skip over the anons if we want. There will always be a heckler or two throwing verbal shoes. Just duck if a shoe comes your way. I think its called something like freedom of expression. To anons, how hard is it to make up a name?
Anonymous says
I absolutely think comments that are rude, insulting, vulgar, obscene, etc. should be deleted. It doesn't matter whether they're anonymous or not. I would not hesitate to do it myself.
I would keep anonymous posting if you can — that is, if troll-posting doesn't become too common.
Donna
Anonymous says
Another anonymous … please keep the anonymous function if at all possible.
I usually have nothing to hide from YOU or my fellow commenters, just my boss, who wouldn't appreciate me taking time out of my work day to post a comment. Also, our policies and procedure manual says that if we do something public that doesn't reflect the values of the company, it's a firing offense. Frankly, I need the insurance.
However, as a multi-pubbed author, I sometimes on rare occasions would like to give candid observations in a very small industry. This often is managed best with an anonymous posting.
Curious question for the rest of you commenters: is there any way to create TWO google IDs with the same e-mail?
My own google ID links to my own pubbed-author blog, so when I sign in, there's my lovely pix.
That would signal to Bossman that I was goofing off at the dayjob, using the computer for personal use. Already some of my co-workers have been warned NOT to post on Facebook during the workday, not even during their lunch hour, because tattlers WILL tell.
Reesha says
I like your decision Nathan! I began reading the comments not caring either way. I always sign in so it doesn't matter to me. I enjoy the annonymous comments and what they bring to the comment section, but I'd rather have you keep a few gray hairs out of your fabulous hair than have to spend extra time policing.
But I applaud your willingness to not only police anons and other commenters, but that you're holding them/us to a higher standard. THANK YOU for all the work you put into fostering an environment that is rich in diverse and creative ideas.
One other note: I can never erase anonymous comments from my own blog because my mother and grandparents aren't computer savvy. It's all they can do to post a comment at all, and they're so sweet about it! 🙂 For their sake, I keep it open. Do any of your family members comment on your blog? I'm curious.
chelle says
I used to comment anonymously, but responsibly. I've since taken to using my name. If I can't stand up and take the guff for what I say, then I shouldn't be leaving a comment. Ban 'em.
Mira says
Anon 7:06
You can't have two i.d.s to the same account, but you can have multiple g-mail accounts. You can easily sign out of one and into another.
So, if you wanted to have a 'blog' identity, you could do it through a separate e-mail, that would not be associated with your name.
Dawn says
No anon posting. If they can stand by what they say, they should sign their name to it.
K.T. Koulos says
though it's your choice, I'd keep going anon as an option. I wouldn't want people knowing that I was the one sending a certain comment when it's a comment about something I'm sensitive about. blocking anon comments just makes the person making the rude comments think 'ha! we got him to block anon!!' but if we just ignore them then they'll probably get annoyed that we aren't caring about their posts which teaches them to stop wasting their time making these comments.
charlesdentex says
For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone who is even the least bit interested in writing and publishing would want to do so anonymously. It defeats the purpose of writing and being published.
Annalee says
I realize that as a woman in the tech community, where women and those with feminine usernames are regularly subjected to harassment, threats, and all kinds of discrimination, I'm coming at this from a different perspective than the Times. In my part of the internet, anonymity is essential to protect women and minorities from degenerate assholes.
I understand the argument behind using real names to keep the debate civil and honest. But more often than not, that argument is made in complete ignorance of the privilege issues involved.
Sure, trolls don't want to be found. But neither do battered wives. People with abusive exes. People who are being, or have been, stalked or threatened. People whose published or unpublished work could get them fired, disowned, shunned, or attacked. People who are just plain sick of others making assumptions about them based on their race, ethnicity, or gender.
When you use a consistent pseudonym, you leave breadcrumbs behind that any clever person with google can use to find out all kinds of things about you. Those who don't have to fear that don't have a problem leaving you an email address or blogger name when they comment. Those of us that do have to fear that do one of two things: Post completely anonymously, or use our real names to remind ourselves not to say anything that we can't have traced back to us.
Personally, I don't say what I won't sign because I can't afford to take the risk that someone might trace an anonymous comment back to me. But I also understand that even that form of self-censorship is a privilege I've got that others don't. Because I live in a country where I'm free to speak my mind. Because my family, friends, and employers know my sexual orientation and don't have a problem with it. Because I don't write erotica. Because there's an entire police force whose sole job is to watch my place of work. Because I don't live alone.
In a nutshell, disabling anonymous comments silences those who have reason to fear for their safety online. These are people who've been silenced enough already. Personally, I would rather have to scroll past a few trolls than have to go without their contributions to the discussion.
Anonymous says
This is an interesting discussion. I'd be even more interested to see how blog readers feel about anonymous bloggers in a future post.
So far the discussion is pointed toward anonymous comments on blog threads that are, even at their worst, basically harmless in a general sense.
But what about anonymous bloggers? They use a voice and tone that they would never use if it was attached to their real names. Some anon bloggers who write book reviews take absolute advantage of creating dangerous, vicious, book roasts for personal reasons. There are, and have been, anon agent bloggers that have gone after individuals for personal reasons.
And yet, some of these anon bloggers have some of the most popular blogs on the web. It's interesting. It's part of the web that is rarely discussed because no one takes it very seriously right now. And it's something that I think will be addressed sooner or later in courts.
Sorry for posting anonymously on this one. But I don't want any anon book reviewers coming after me with vengence. And they would if I posted under my real identity.
Anonymous says
It's too bad that this whole blog is just open to the public without needing the public to sign in to read it too. That would be a headache, of course. But it would protect this group. Responsible access all around.
One can wish.
Another idea? (Someone asked for humor) How about a blog breathalizer test? No one can comment after twelve brandys.
Katherine Jenkins says
I have yet to receive an anonymous comment on my blog. I enjoy the fact that I can click on the name and find out where people are from, what blogs they author and their interests. I have connected with many people this way. If you have something to say in this world, why hide behind being anonymous, what good does that do!
goldchevy says
I would dump the anonymous option so your site is a safe place for people to learn and express opinions and knowledge that helps others. Maybe it's democracy but I'm kind of tired of catering to mean people.
Tracy Hahn-Burkett says
Did anyone see the AP article out of Wisconsin yesterday that discussed how cases sparked by anonymous comments on blogs are beginning to show up in courts? People trying to sue to find out who is trashing their reputation, commenters suing site owners who revealed their IP addresses to infuriated people whom they had trashed, etc. It adds another dimension to this discussion: https://tinyurl.com/r9qzla
I apologize if someone already included this. I confess I did not read all 332 comments before posting.
Anna Claire says
I haven't read all the comments, but I'm with candicekennington. If someone really wants to be anonymous, they just have to register with some random name and/or have an anonymous profile. They keep their anonymity and still get to post, but the crazies likely wouldn't go to all that trouble. So let's ditch anonymous.
Chuck H. says
I'm just a crotchety old man, retired, wannabe writer and occasional substitute teacher. I don't care who knows what I really think and therefore would never post as anon. That being said, I can understand why some might. Set the anons free. Let them snark. It's all just spice for the stew.
@anon 5:05 That is one of the funniest things I've read lately even with the obvious theft from Bill Murray in Ghostbusters.
Word Ver: relityll — especially tiny?
Anonymous says
Absolutely ban all anonymous posters. Come on people–don't you have the backbone to stand by what you believe in?
onelowerlight says
Okay, I admit, I was the last anonymous poster. Sorry, but it was so ironic I just had to do it.
But seriously, I'm for getting rid of anonymous comments.
Dawn VanderMeer says
I can think of two times that I commented anonymously here. The first time I just felt like joining the discussion when you had prompted us, asking why we write. I didn't have a Blogger account yet, and just wanted to jump in so I could get back to my manuscript. The second time (I still didn't have a Blogger account), I was writing something "pro-Nathan", and I didn't want it to look like I was kissing up/insincere by signing it.
I'm on the fence. I see the benefits of anonymous comments, but if they're at all an energy sucker, feel free to cut them.
Anonymous says
@Anon 7:06
You can have multiple google accounts; they cannot use the same email address. If you want them to share email for purposes like reply notification, you can set your secondary account up to forward mail to your primary address.
(You can also set up your primary account to send mail as your secondary account. Be aware that the account actually sending the mail will show up in the headers. Itt's useful if you just don't want to confuse people by replying "from" a different address than they emailed.)
If you want to share an email address for login reasons, I'd suggest using the seperate account and storing the information in your browser's login manager to facilitate the login process. (Don't do this with a shared computer, like an office workstation.) The only thing you really lose is the the convenience of the perpetual login settings, but since you're commenting as anon, you're probably not using them anyway.
Regards,
Anon 6:42
PS. Sorry for the digression. I just figured since I was here, I'd answer.
lotusgirl says
I don't really like the anonymous comments. If you mean it enough to say it, you can at least sign your online alias.
Scott says
I say close them. If someone wants to contribute but doesn't want to be known, it doesn't take that long to register under any name of their choosing. No one has to know who they are or how to contact them.
The only constrictions applied by dropping anons are those that keep the drive-by trolls at bay.
annerallen says
I know most people who post here are very young. They don't realize that some people post anonymously not because "they're too lazy to set up a blogger account" but because they don't know how. It took me a while to learn that's what I needed to do to comment–it's not as if there's a manual–so I had to post anonymously.
If you block that option, you may just be blocking out older newbies–just the people who need this blog. The real trolls will have no problem setting up aliases.
Roy Hayward says
Nathan,
What a fascinating post and discussion you have incited. Good Job!
I found two types of anonymous posts on this topic funny. 1) "I am REALLY important in the biz, so I have to hide." and 2) "If I can't post anon, then I won't post at all."
To the number 1 crowd; "[unintelligible laughter] Really? I mean really????"
To the number 2 crowd; "What? You mean there would be more room for my posts? Cool."
(I feel a bit snarky here)
I personally take anons with a grain of salt. And most of the time I just laugh and move on. I write a blog, and toy with stories. And I know that most of the time, people who knows me, will know me even if they don't read my name. If I really sat down with each post and sanitized it to the point where I was truly anonymous, then two things would be true; The post would be lame. And would be of no value.
I vote to get rid of anon. (more room for me.)
Leigha says
My opinion is that we are all adults I believe. As adults we should all be accountable for our actions we should also be able to be adult enough to take responsibility for what we say. If we can't Man or Woman up, maybe those people don't really need to be posting anyway.
However as with anything, there is always a way around it. All the Anons have to do is to sign up an alias and spout away. But at least people could respond to that person specifically.
Anonymous says
Another Anon poster offering a different reason:
I read the blog regularly but I very rarely view the comments. I simply don't have time. Only once before this have I ever posted when I came across a point I found particularly interesting. Therefore I didn't bother setting up an account as it was unlikely I would ever comment much and I'd probably forget my username and password before I came to use it again.
I never use my real name on the Internet for security reasons. But then I don't troll or leave rude comments and have no time for people who do.
thoughtful1 says
I discovered inadvertently that once your name is on the internet it stays on the internet. After a strange interaction online with someone I would have preferred not to interact with online, I decided not to use my real name in online posts. I just use a screen name. If the blog manager needs to contact me they can, but my identity is not out there to be manipulated in any way on the internet. At least I think I am protecting my privacy.
Jude says
I prefer when people take responsibility for what they write. It always elevates the quality of exchanges.
There are certain topics where I would support time-bound anon comments, but, in general, anon comments are a reflection of cowardice, not prudence.
Of course lots of people post non-anonymously under non-real names or, like me, with a single name, which is where you get into the murkier waters of identity, ethics, and community.
roseleaf24 says
It's easy enough to set up an anonymous blog or identity online that I don't think anonymous commenting is necessary. If people want to be able to keep their identity a secret to comment on something sensitive, they can do that while still creating a way that their comment can be tracked somewhere. I no longer allow anonymous commenting on my personal blog because hurtful comments were made, and I had no way to respond to them. No way to explain myself or seek reconciliation.
Anonymous says
It is such a pain to go the all of the rigmarole of signing up for some website you are going to maybe visit once or twice. Then maybe a few months down the road you will rediscover said website and of course won't remember if you signed up or not or what your password is or what email you used. I feel like I have signed up for hundreds of sites that just are not worth the hassle. In my opinion a site or blog should prove it's worth before I jump thru anymore hoops.
Genella deGrey says
Your blog, your rules.
🙂
G.
Janeen says
Of course, you can do whatever you like with your own blog comments; I don't consider it censorship to block anonymous comments or to delete posts (whether anon or not)that are rude or disrespectful!
But I think anonymous comments are valuable, and I will appreciate it if you continue to allow them.
I hardly ever comment, but I enjoy reading through the comments, and I just don't understand the perspective that people who don't wish to identify themselves ought not to post. I can think of a number of scenarios (many already listed) where this option would be useful. Industry insiders (not me, certainly!)might have insights to share; maybe an example of a negative experience would be helpful if posted anonymously but hurtful if the poster's identity were known.
Just because some people don't want to spend the time creating an account doesn't mean they have nothing useful or of interest to contribute.
And while I think the internet would benefit from more courtesy and kindness, I also think it would be unfortunate if everyone became so circumspect that discussion and debate were stifled.
Ginger says
If you don't want to post with your real name you can
1. Create a blogger account using a free yahoo email address, such as this one my author created for me so I can post at "Come In Character"
or
Christopher Robin says
…. just click the "Name/URL" option under the comment box and enter any name you want to!