In the comments section of last week’s Genre Poll, some people wanted to know more about who exactly is reading this blog anyway. What’s the ratio of published to unpublished, male to female, age, etc.?
So here’s a quick series of polls that will hopefully demystify the demographics. Please click through from e-mail or your blog reader to see the polls.
(the second option in this poll should have read: “Started, haven’t finished”):
Let’s see who’s really out there.
from the looks of it you are going to get a whole load of queries from books written by women in their thirties…any time now.
One of the reasons I keep coming back to your blog is you make me laugh–even with a poll! Didn't know that was possible.
ie. Every choice about rhetorical questions reflected your viewpoint. Not very scientific, but if you keep pounding it in our heads maybe we'll get it.(Another effective teaching technique.)
Hmmm… Is it me or are writers just a bit over sensative? If I'm not mistaken, this was supposed to be a "fun" poll meant to give a small insight as to what's happening in the publishing world. It's not a scientific poll, people! If your "category" wasn't listed, get over it and move on.
Thank you Nathan for taking time out of your busy schedule to create this poll. I, for one, enjoyed being part of it (not that it really matters in the scheme of things).
I have to admit, of my two novels in progress, neither are even close to finished. I have finished many children's stories though. I seem to have a knack for them, which is either because they are shorter and thus don't take as long to write or because I am a mom of seven kids who give me inspiration.
But the novels are the stories I am more passionate about and need to get down to the work of writing them.
These polls were a great idea Nathan.
I would think that the reason Nathan doesn't get as many actual queries from women is that he doesn't represent the types of fiction that most women write.
I also think that he probably gets more "out there" queries because he's made himself very accessible.
Some of the questions can have more than one answer.
For example, "Where are you in the publishing process?" I'm unagented, I've self-published a couple of niche-market books, and I have a book under contract with a small publisher for publication in 2010.
"For those working on a manuscript, how far are you?" I have one complete and one WIP that's 25% done.
Not to stir up the old debate here, but I have an observation about the whole "writing lots of books before looking for agenting advice" thing. Perhaps this will explain to certain posters why people like me are doing what we are doing – i.e. looking for lots of advice while working on our first (or nearly first) manuscript.
I am almost 39. I have been writing stories since I was a kid, and attempted a couple of novels before this one. My English teachers always told me I was very talented.
But, I also have technical skills and stopped writing in order to pursue an M.S., get a job in a technical field (clinical research), get married, stay married, and have child with medical issues. My life has been hectic, to say the least.
But now I am teaching part-time and finding that the lid on Pandora's box won't stay shut any more. I have to pursue my dream or die.
But I am writing in isolation. I know no one else who writes, I am not hanging around literary types, I teach math and statistics all day, and I married a guy who doesn't even like to read. So the Internet is my only connection with other writers and with the publishing world.
As well, EVERY SINGLE article, speaker or author about writing says that you have to write what agents want. The very first person I ever heard talk about writing was from some tapes my mom brought back from a writer's conference she attended, and he said that you shouldn't write ANYTHING at all until you've sold the proposal. Otherwise, it's a waste of your time. "Don't write for free," he said.
I found out since then that although this may be true for non-fiction, it is not true for fiction. But, taking his advice, I did craft a proposal for a novel and submit it to a publisher. It was rejected, but she took enough time to send me a letter explaining her reasons and asking for more things from me in the future. That encouraged me to try to find out more and to keep writing.
So here I am… and that's why.
to sum up:
1. I need advice
2. I'm not as young as I used to be
3. The Internet is my only connection to the writing world.
The male-female ratio is really interesting. I thought there was roughly an even split.
> Nathan
I love that you describe the discussion as 'fraught'. I frequent Guardian's Comment is Free and the commenters there usually rip each other (and the writers) to pieces so this place is wonderful in comparison. (Though having said that, I don't know what the deleted comments said.)
> Ink
You're the Ink/Bryan that commented on my blog and tried to make me feel better about my book cover, right? Hi! (Sorry, I don't know why I felt such a rush of affectionate recognition – I blame the virtual age).
>Hannah
WOW!
Oh, and, like Laura, I really love THIS book and THESE characters, and want them to have a fair chance at getting published.
(As well as justifying all the time I've spent on this to my spouse.)
Interesting poll. Also interesting comments. I notice that a lot of people are surprised that so many have so few completed manuscripts, so I just thought I'd add my two cents worth. I myself checked the "started, haven't finished." I have written at least three other manuscripts which were trashed upon completion, so I don't count those. Also I have had poetry published, but never my own anthology, and I really have no desire now to pursue that, so I don't count it either. There are undoubtedly others like me.
Additionally, I would guess that a lot of "new" writers will not stick with the process, since there apparently is no immediate gratification in this business.
Besides there is a ton of great information on this blog, so I would imagine that people with any level of experience would find it interesting.
Lol, Kia, yes, 'tis I. Maybe I should be like the Santa Claus of Blogland, diving down virtual chimneys to offer presents of good cheer…
Of course, I'd probably be struck down by anti-viral software or something.
Christine H,
Nicely put.
Thanks, Ink!
Regarding "sticking with the process," my past attempts at novels were so bad that I realized they weren't worth the effort of completing. It was a question of how to use my limited creative time effectively.
This one is actually good enough to "stick with", and I've had professional feedback to support that conclusion.
I wrote my first book the summer I turned 13. It's Outsidersesque and it's probably about 30,000 words (hand written on notebook paper). But it was mine and it was FINISHED. So I proved to myself I could finish early. I looked back at it a couple of years ago and while most of it, of course, is utter crap, there are inklings of the writer-that-would-be. Every now and then I thought, that really isn't awful.
I think it's important we love and respect all of our work, even our crappy starts and stops. I learned to look for the "moments," the bits of genius in each piece of art when I was painting. Now it's tough for me to read someone's work without finding that golden bit that shines.
Wow. Lots of women following you! =)
Published, yes.
Published again? No.
Agented? No.
Frustrated? Yes.
The questions weren't quite complete.
Thanks, Nathan.
My first (non fiction) book was published at the end of last year. Since then I've got an agent to handle my first novel which I'm currently editing furiously – so I'm kind of in two seperate categories here.
Fascinating to see the statistics. I've been reading this blog long before I had a publisher and the advice has been so helpful at every stage.
Um, Nathan, I'm a small press publisher. While I am also a writer, I read your blog to see what the big boys are up to. *smile*
And I write short stories, I haven't tried writing a novel … yet. *smile*
I'm new to this blog, having stumbled upon it by another site, but I found this poll interesting much like others have commented. First, within the gender gap, I wonder how this breaks down in the genres. Secondly, I agree with Anon, having seen the low number of actually completed ms, I am pressed to get mine done.
It was fun and interesting to see where people are, nonetheless. Thanks Nathan, I have enjoyed everything that you've shared.
V.
Wow. An agent asks me for something, and I complete the assigned task in 3 minutes! Not bad.
-Todaro
Sex Scenes at Starbucks – that was really nicely said.
I agree with Mira. Now, let's all get back to our manuscripts!
Christine H.,
I may be completely wrong here, but I think that the whole write-what-agents-want is horse crap. Most writers write what they would like to read. We are all exposed to many of the same media images, movies, and cultural influences. So, why would it be inconceivable that someone else would like to read the same things we do? See where I'm going? If the story interests you enough to write it, chances are, once crafted in a skilled manner, it will be interesting enough for someone else to want to read it.
I completely get the isolation thing. I'm livig in North Eastern, BC on a farm. My spouse hasn't read a book since I don't have a clue, and everyone here is about practical things like plowing fields, and making money in the oil patch. The internet (even if it is dial-up) saved my life.
Two years ago I knew nothing about the book biz. I owe a lot of credit for my few accomplishments to internet communities just like this one. I even got a book deal because of a blog. Navigating it all seems daunting, but perserverance will get you everywhere.
BTW, if you click on Reesha's picture (on the first page) it will take you to her blog and she just posted that she wants to start a critique group.
Best of luck! And, prop the lid open. Heck, tear the lid right off!
"Every single writer has a different path. There's no better or worse path, they're just different."
Amen.
Crap. I didn't see the "revision" option on the one poll until after I'd already clicked on some other choice.
I am unagented, and have written three novels. But I think I would still be working on only the first, except the story I'm telling is a series. So the first is completed and being queried, but the other two are in revision, and will remain so until the first actually publishes.
So hard for me to consider anything complete until it publishes though, so maybe all three are still in revision.
For me, this survey helps because I see how many others out there are in the same boat as I am, no matter how many completed works they have. I think it's great so many people can work on several WIP's at once and still get out there and query. I have a lot of respect for people that write one thing, and keep at it until they feel the story is told. And sold.
I think no matter what point in our writing we are at we all take a different path to get there.
I really liked the rhetorical question Nathan. A cool ending to the poll.
……dhole
word verif: eatheda. Eat Heda? A female member of a cannibal tribe who wrote an embarrassing query?
Over the years, I've seen more than a few excited blog fans read and comment and discuss their work on blogs just like this one. And then one day they drop off and disappear forever, and a new group slowly forms and the cycle repeats. Sometimes the names are ordinary, and sometimes they are unusual. And they all seem so eager and ready to get published.
I liked this survey, but I'd be curious to read a survey about the many blog readers who have disappeared. I know that's impossible because they are gone. But it would be interesting to hear what they have to say now.
I never fit in multiple choice questions. There was no option for formerly agented, seeking new representation. I know, I know, I'm unagented, and that's what I clicked on, but lacking more substantial encouragement, I have to cling to the nuances.
anon-
I find that interesting too. I've always wondered about the gradual turnover in commenters.
Christine H
Well said.
Oops. I meant to return earlier today. Wow! Look at all the comments. Although I'm itching to respond to everyone… I just want to say thanks to Thermocline, Christine, Marilyn, Literary Girl, Laurel, and Bane for their encouragement… something all of us "new" writers need.
I realize that, as a first-time novelist, I often sound naive. But I'd much rather remain passionate and, to a certain degree, idealistic than become bitter after years of rejection. I have no doubt that the rejections will come (I've already gotten a few), but I believe in this novel, and I will see it published someday, one way or another. I, too, have other stories in me… it's not like I'm aiming to be a one-hit wonder, but I believe in concentrating on one story at a time, no matter what the nay-sayers say. And hope that all my new writing buddies will do the same!
–Laura
P.S. And would you believe? I am the exact mean of Nathan's commenters… unagented (or pre-agented like Jen C.), revising my first novel, female, and in my thirties. Hilarious!
P.P.S. I have no doubt, Nathan, that while you have a core group of commenters, you'd notice a high turnover, too… and I don't think it's necessarily because writers give up and lose interest. Although writing is not an easy profession and requires blood, sweat, energy, time, dedication, and perseverance, the commenters' disappearance might just indicate that, after learning a lot from these blogs, some of them have decided to get back to writing. At least, I can hope that's what happened, but there I go being naive again. 🙂
Ha! Thanks, Sara. I should have included an option for "not a writer."
I fit right into the highest categories. Surprised by the large number of women versus men that read. Makes sense most of us reading an agent's blog would be unagented, I think.
Regarding the last poll:
What if this weren't a rhetorical question?
Heh.
Would it be horribly sexist for me to suggest that the additional 53% of women writing books is due to many of them being supported by husbands?
The answer is certainly, "yes, you're horribly sexist and should be ashamed of yourself" whilst keeping in mind that I am a woman, albeit a single, working one with children and no time to write…
Pardon me if I remain anonymous. 🙂
The trouble with writing what agents want is that they are such tricksy, unpredictable little creatures.
Now I know Nathan wants Book Club books.
I heard another agent say that they wanted an African American "Lord of the Rings."
Unfortunately, I'm not likely to write either.
Interesting..I'm told by teens who should know that "evil" now means good. I'm sure that was not your point. I ticked "unagented" because in terms of novels I am. On the other hand, I am a published professional in newspapers and local magazines and by one text book publisher.
I'm soooo loving the cracks about Nathan's hair! Too funny.
When word gets out about the men to women ratio, are you gonna have to rename the bolg, "Nathan Bransford – Dating Agency?"
LOL
G.
Hey, top 2% for number of books written!
That's so depressing.
I think there might also be a few of us working in publishing reading this – I am a rights manager submitting to US editors.
Laura said…
I realize that, as a first-time novelist, I often sound naive. But I'd much rather remain passionate and, to a certain degree, idealistic than become bitter after years of rejection.
Laura, I couldn't agree more. Perhaps I'm just an ever-childish Gemini, but I refuse to turn into a bitter old writer. I'd rather remain eternally optimistic and let my passion for my work shine through in a positive light.
Anon @ 1:45 – Damn, it would be nice to be supported by someone! Alas, I am single and live alone and thus am the sole breadwinner for my family of one.
Oops! I clicked "50%-75% completed" on the one about how far along I am in my manuscript…THEN I saw the "revising" choice. Too late! I *am* technically revising; I'm just totally rewriting it (for the 3rd time now…), and about 50%-75% along in that seemingly-endless project.
—
SF Writer
To God be the glory
(Age 18, unagented but hoping to get one, with probably 10 or more books under my belt – most of them no good – and affirming that rhetorical questions are EVIL!!)
Oops! Sorry about the double comment!
—
SF Writer
Why are only 2 percent of us in the 10 to 20 books written category? And how many besides me are in that range, and yet only got to check the "have a contract, book isn't out yet" option?
Sigh. I'm pathetic…
Thinking about Literary Cowgirl and others, the surroundings you describe sound really exotic to a reader here in leafy England! It sounds as though- like many writers here – you are sitting right in the middle of a literary goldmine. Keep on over the next couple of thousand words, the world is waiting.
Is it a little pathetic that I got a cheap thrill being able to click "agented"?
There should have been another option: "Published but as yet un-agented." Some small presses still accept submissions without requiring they be agented. Very few, I might add, but it happens.
I clicked "published," by the way, because I have a short story in the anthology Hos, Hookers, Call Girls, and Rent Boys, which made the cover of last Sunday's New York Times book review. I'm really proud to be a part of this book.
However, it's a short story, not a full ms, so I honestly wasn't sure what to click in your poll. 🙂
Anonymous, you *are* sexist! But, it's also true.. for me, anyways.
I didn't start writing in earnest until after I became a SAHM, and now I work part-time.
Keep the dream alive! Your time will come. I don't know how old your children are, but I know it's gotten easier for me as the years go by.
That was easy, and fun. I'm part of a minority! In the age stuff at least.
I'm editing book number ten right now. It's the only one good enough to even try and put out there(although it's in close contest with number nine), some of the others are just aweful, stuff that I wrote back when I was like eight-ten,good plots, but the writing his horrible. hmm it might be fore it to rewrite them.
Anyways that was fun, thanks Nathan.