In the comments section of last week’s Genre Poll, some people wanted to know more about who exactly is reading this blog anyway. What’s the ratio of published to unpublished, male to female, age, etc.?
So here’s a quick series of polls that will hopefully demystify the demographics. Please click through from e-mail or your blog reader to see the polls.
(the second option in this poll should have read: “Started, haven’t finished”):
Let’s see who’s really out there.
Laura Montone —
Ahem, that is why I quantified my statement by saying, and I quote:
"…This is me, though, and I'm not necessarily suggesting that others are wrong…"
Read the whole post if you are going to call me out, please. If you can write only one book and get that sucker published, then more power to you. Most don't. I wasn't trying to be discouraging.
Wow, comments are so modest. 🙂
Nathan,
Now now, let's not go there on the sex thing and it being about men not asking for directions.
It's more about their need to build things without looking at the instructions.
I generalized my answers on my two wip's that are currently getting all of my attention. The rest of the rabble can continue to collect dust in the drawer for now. And I assumed that published meant something more meaty than short stories and flash fiction online.
I can't help but notice
there's no option for 0-1 year-olds. What about all the writers who got their start scribbling on their placenta walls? 🙂
Laura, would you apply the same standard to poetry?
Imagine if something like that happened in the poetry world, and writing only one best-it-could-be whole poem became the requirement for being called a poet, especially a good or a great poet.
I think that would be ridiculous. And I think it's equally ridiculous for novels, screenplays, short stories and so on.
In my opinion, a writer must have multiple experiences writing to The End in a format in order to "perfect" writing in that format and be considered a serious writer in that format. And by perfect I only mean when the writer becomes the best at that format she'll ever personally become. And becoming the best requires repetition in executing whole works, not one or parts–wholes.
Good (and especially great) writing requires a repeat phenomenon–it's the way it is. I don't consider a writer a novelist unless the person's written at least three novels. I think every person could probably write one novel. A slightly bigger percentage have two novels in them, but most people wouldn't make it past Number 2. Novel Number 3 is the critical number to strive toward.
But every writer must start somewhere. Nothing wrong with you or anyone else being at Number 1–just avoid stopping there if you want to become really good at novelwriting and earn the Novelist title, at least in my eyes lol.
How about "none of your business" for "How old are you?"
Regarding the "working on a mss option" – that's hard to answer – I wrote "revising" because I am with the latest, just finished, but by the revising stage, i'm always started on a new one too.
F.P.
The following people only wrote one book. They'll be sorry to hear they aren't really authors:
• Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird.
• Margaret Mitchell, Gone With the Wind.
• Emily Brontë, Wuthering Heights.
• J. D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye.
• Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray.
• John Kennedy Toole, A Confederacy of Dunces.
• Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar.
• Anna Sewell, Black Beauty.
• Boris Pasternak, Dr. Zhivago.
• Arundhati Roy, The God of Small Things.
Wait. I just copied that..how did Oscar Wilde get on that list? Maybe he only wrote plays.
I'm sort of grumpy today. Maybe it's the dimensional loop.
Anyway, I think I made my point, accuracy aside.
Hey, where's the option for "Published but unagented"? 🙂
If I may, this debate seems a bit more fraught than it needs to be. I know plenty of writers who sold the first novel they'd ever written in their life. I also know plenty of writers who wrote ten or more unpublished works before they found publication. Neither way is better or worse than the other. It just takes what it takes.
Writers need to write as many novels as they need to write to get there. That may be one it may be fifty. Some make it on the first try and never write as well again. Some keep getting better and better and find publication on the tenth or twentieth.
Every single writer has a different path. There's no better or worse path, they're just different.
I wonder if the male-female ratio is another sign towards how fiction is more enjoyed by women than men…
Anon 11:54/12:17 – I did, in fact, read the whole post. I always do before commenting. And although I indeed noticed your caveat that "This is me, though, and I'm not necessarily suggesting that others are wrong," it was quickly followed by the "thought" that a lot of "people favor the 'romantic' notion of writing much more than they do the hard ass work of finising the damn thing."
It was that that offended me… but perhaps I'm just sensitive to this same old refrain. My rebuttal was certainly not meant to "attack" you – I'm just sick of hearing people suggest that concentrating on one book makes a writer somehow less "serious" about his/her craft. I don't just want to be a writer – I want to tell THIS story. That's why I wrote it.
But I appreciate the fact you weren't trying to be discouraging – perhaps it was your tone that belied your intentions. That certainly can happen in the faceless blogosphere.
–Laura Martone
Here come the ad hominem attacks…nice.
In my opinion, "Anonymous" didn't criticize or judge anyone. Anonymous expressed a general opinion, which this specific poll sparked and could support.
I wish people would use nickname tags rather than leave up Anonymous, or else readers can't tell who's who among the Anonymous posters.
Mira, thanks for the strawperson.
I never used the "author"* word in my post. I used NOVELIST. A writer of a single novel could write a good novel. A writer's first novel could be good, but while I consider that writer a writer (as long as she writes regularly), I do NOT consider that writer a novelist. A creator of only one whole poem who also dabbles in writing poem parts regularly would be a writer, but would NOT be a poet to me.
If all those writers you listed only ever wrote one novel, I don't consider them novelists, sorry. And I think had they written even more, they probably would have written even better ones.
*I can't stand the author word. I think it implies that at some point a writer has ARRIVED and is now on some higher plane. I am and only ever will be a WRITER. Being a writer is about WRITING, not "authoring." Being a writer is about the work, not the potential prize at the end of the work.
Nathan, that was beautifully written.
I'm sorry I lost my head. F.P., let's agree to disagree.
Thank you, Nathan, for voicing your opinion re: a writer's path and how every one of them is different. I couldn't agree with you more – generalizations irk me so.
And that's all I'm going to say on that. (whistling, petting the kitty, moving on…)
I've deleted all those comments anyway. You guys are arguing to the wind.
I didn't take the poll since I have three WIP's going on in different stages – and if I counted my PB's I would have many more completed books than my one MG, but I did love reading the poll results. At least it was validating to see I'm not older than the average responder:)
I know exactly what you mean by "I want to tell THIS story. That's why I wrote it." I didn't set out to become a Writer. My brain just would not let go of this story(or maybe it was the other way around and the story wouldn't let go of my brain.)
BTW, I'm amazed at how much you've got posted Ruby Hollow, especially the genealogies, before publication. That's really cool!
I love how most of your readers are female! This is interesting.
This survey may give you a slight idea, but it really doesn't tell you who's reading the blog, it tells you who took the survey.
I usually don't take surveys but decided to do this one because I'm following you on Twitter.
this is hilarious .. I know you didn't mean to be so. basically, I'm a gay guy in his 30's with one unpublished / one sold novel in competition with people who are VERY against queries that begin rhetorically?
(although I do have representation, the sold/but unpublished field assumes one has an agent; does everyone?)
I'd be curious to see what genre the 78% of novelist aspirants are working on AND (or, vs.) what they're writing AND, in a fantasy book store world, if you book could be stocked in three sections, what would they be (if it's not easily cateorizeable)?
anon-
That was so last week.
Why is epublished and self published together? I make my living from epublishing. Also have an agent who hasn't placed the ms yet. Also published in non fiction under another name. I put "published," since I am, and I've never paid a penny for the privelege.
no worries, interesting results!
lynne-
Answered that one farther up.
I lo ve surveys. This was a fun one. 🙂
Hi, Thermocline. Glad to hear that I'm not the only one obsessed with telling a particular story – mine wouldn't let go of my brain either.
As for the Ruby Hollow website, I appreciate the favorable responses I've received… but I'm beginning to think that I have TOO MUCH on the site. It was intended for agents and editors, pre-publication – which is why it's so thorough. Once it's being published, I'd probably make it more appropriate for a reading audience. But who knows? It's gotten people interested in reading the story – and I guess that's what matters, right?
This was a great idea, Nathan. Thank you!
i'm anon 1:03 … "so last week?" LOL, okay, yes, I know, I read your blog everyday so it was more, so interblogtextual … not to mention a funny phrase to use in an industry where (I'm quoting, who/what I don't recall) six weeks is considered lunch. these metrics are interesting though.
I'm curious what you meant, in describing queries from men as being "more out there" … crazy? progressive? it's a tantalizing statement / observation. esp. w/the advent of the Good Men project
Maybe if I learned to spell "Privilege" that might read better! (Or maybe not). The main difference between epublishing and self publishing is that epublishing companies pay you, but you pay self-publishers, if you see what I mean.
I'm just digging a deeper hole, aren't I? Better stop now and go and see how Arsenal did.
Incidentally, I should've said this earlier… but, thanks, Nathan, for hosting the illuminating survey. I'm only sorry it sparked such an ugly debate. Ah, well. Writers can be temperamental – or so I've heard. Darn it, there I go generalizing again. 😉
Nathan – this is so true:
"Every single writer has a different path. There's no better or worse path, they're just different."
And we must remind ourselves of this again and again, no matter where we are at in the process, before AND after publication.
I voted.
But on WiPs, well, I'm crazy and have several. All of which are at different stages and in different genres or media.
Some are 100% done, one on submission the other in revisions.
One of those is a poetry book.
The other is a genre romance.
I have four other poetry collections, each in various percentages of completedness.
My novel is the one I voted with and it's 27% done.
That's my explanation of my percentages.
Definitely.
Getting people interested that early out is great. Plus it shows how passionate you are about your story. I'm sure that shows up on your pages.
Gotta say…this poll has depressed me, not that that's difficult to do. But I don't wanna look at the results anymore.
It may be too self-selecting/biased anyway, as maybe most writers hanging at this blog (and agent blogs in general) are newer writers and hang here because they're newer. The smaller percentage of writers having completed multiple works–maybe that wouldn't be the case for polls done elsewhere, where a higher percentage of more experienced writers may hang out.
I don't know. I do, however, get the feeling the poll is pretty accurate compared to the larger population of writers (same for your last poll about genres); my personal observations have yielded around the same percentages. Hence, my feeling depressed–though not just for that reason.
Interesting – particularly the age-grouping. I'm younger than I thought in terms of productivity,but older in terms of this blog and what I fondly imagined was a peer group.
I just come here to stare at your hair.
10-20 novels, Published (as of yesterday! Woo!), Revising, Female, 1-19, Amen!
I'm striking a good balance between bizarre and shockingly typical, looks like. (Yeah females revising!)
(word verification: pediste. "you asked?")
That's a lot of girls.
Not that I'm complaining. 🙂
As for the surveys, I did wonder about the formerly agented… oh the gnashing of teeth in the outer dark. And I figured by published you meant published "book", so I answered accordingly.
And I'm all for the idea of writers taking different paths. Mine has been odder than I once expected it would be. Ah, the innocence of youth.
And I can't really get down with any arbitrary calculation to determine who is a novelist and who isn't. One book? Two? Five? Seven? Seems rather random, and rather pointless in the end, as it's arguing about the label rather than the reality. And the label is rather meaningless. Unless you're trying to pick up women (or men, particularly since ZOUNDS and OH MY GOD there's a lot of women here. Yes, my suspicions are being confirmed. Women are secretly killing off men, starting with the intelligent and creative ones. It explains so much. Like politics.)
"How old are you?"
…not a very friendly question for someone at the extreme outer limits of "30-39"!
Great poll!
I've actually written several novels, but I chose "1" because it's the only one I feel is viable (and that I am currently in the process of revising—rewriting, more like. 90% done! It's like pulling teeth!) as all the others were written when I was a teenager. They are either terribly derivative of whatever I was obsessed with at the time or else thinly-veiled autobiography I intended to be the Next Great American Novel.
Ah, youth.
I am currently steeling myself for the query stage in the publishing process.
(Nathan, so popular with the ladies!)
Congrats, Hannah!
You crack me up.
Hey, I've been wanting to ask: If a novel is inspired from actual events (i.e., a memoir), is that relevant information at the query stage? 350 is so few words.
Thanks for the survey. It was fun.
Hannah, congrats! — 10 – 20 already? Wow… mad props to you for that (even if some of them are trunkers, that's still impressive).
I have 2 novels fantasy published by a small press, without an agent, and a third unpublished. I have a number of short stories as well, some published, some under contract, etc., but I didn't include them on the list.
"the really "out there" queries tend to come from men, who I'm guessing aren't reading agent blogs in the same numbers as women." I read the blogs and the advice, but I don't know why I bother. The words make no sense to me but do succeed in giving me a stress headache. Anything beyond 'would you like to read my book?' is beyond me. Fortunately my current publisher was happy with that, way back when.
"novels fantasy"
Take that. Reverse it. Thank you.
Hannah,
I'm not sure which is more impressive… published at 18 or 10-20 novels by 18? You've certainly worked for your success.
I must admit, when I was 18 I'd completed, oh, three or four short stories. And half of them were in grade school. But, you know, they were great. Absolute classics. I even illustrated them myself. Top shelf, if I may say so. And not just me! My mother was also very supportive.
Ink,
LOL
Maybe that's why so many men seem to turn into deer in the headlights around me when they learn I have a master's degree! It would certainly explain a lot.
Wow, congrats, Hannah, for being published! That's so exciting!
This is fun, fun, fun – and very informative.
However, I suspect the polling about queries that begin with rhetorical questions might be bias – just a little.
I appreciate the insight this provides.