Thanks everyone for voting in yesterday’s work in progress genre poll! It has certainly been illuminating and interesting.
My assorted thoughts:
– First of all, wow, as of right now over 1,700 works in progress! And that’s just among the people who happened to have visited my blog since yesterday. There are lots and lots and lots of books being written out there.
– People have asked if the genre breakdown corresponds with the proportion of books actually published or in proportion to my queries. In a word: no. Not so much. As you probably know there’s a great deal more nonfiction and romance published than is reflected in the poll, as well as more books for younger readers (middle grade and younger). The poll is somewhat similar to the genre breakdown I see in my Inbox, but there too I tend to receive more queries for nonfiction and middle grade than is reflected here.
– I know I shouldn’t be surprised, but still: when you combine paranormal and fantasy across age groups it comprises 32% of all works in progress. That’s a lot!! Perhaps that’s reflective of who reads my blog (even if I’m not exactly known for fantasy, though I’m open to it), or who’s online voting in polls, or what people out there want to read, or maybe the lingering Stephenie Meyer/JK Rowling effect, but wow. One out of three!
– There were several comments to the effect of, “Well, my novel is this this this and this, and I can’t bear to click ‘mystery’ because it’s so much more than that.” Well… if you don’t click the mystery box your publisher will be clicking it for you. Books don’t just stock themselves, people! As you’re writing your novel you should be cognizant of where you’re going to be stocked in the bookstore or categorized by online retailers. I’m sure there’s a bookstore or library somewhere out there that just stocks every single book alphabetically… but I haven’t seen it.
– Also: if your book straddles genres it’s usually helpful if it has its feet more firmly in one genre or another, even if it combines multiple genres. A book can’t have one half stocked in one section of the bookstore and one half in another. And from a nuts and bolts perspective, there are editors who handle mystery and editors who handle fantasy, they don’t tend to overlap, and your agent will have to send your novel to one or the other. From there, publishers are going to be marketing to a certain audience and making the decision about where to stock your book. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions to this, but particularly for debuts it can be difficult if a novel is not quite literary, not quite paranormal, not quite women’s fiction, and not quite mystery. You don’t want to fall into genre no man’s land.
– As I mentioned in the comments section, literary fiction is a category, not a value judgment. Literary fiction, at least by my definition, spans from the quite accessible to the most dense. A novel doesn’t have to be FINNEGAN’S WAKE to be considered literary fiction.
– Aside from the broad category of what I call “book club fiction,” which tends to straddle the line between literary and accessible and tends to reach a wider audience than “pure” literary fiction, there is not a great deal of non-genre “commercial” or “mainstream” fiction published today. Just about every single published book can be categorized (if crudely) into the genres I listed for polling. Most published novels that are “contemporary” and do not fall into a particular genre tend to be more “literary” and have more stylized prose than genre fiction. Emphasis on “tend to be,” and again, these are categories, not judgments. The “Genre Fiction is JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN LITERARY FICTION AND BTW DID YOU NOTICE THAT GENRE FICTION DOESN’T GET ANY RESPECT AND HOW ABOUT SOME FREAKING REVIEW ATTENTION” police can drop their weapons. For the time being.
– “For the time being” is a really weird phrase when you think about it. For the time being… what? What is the time being? And how the heck does “time being” mean “for now?” I don’t get it.
– And “Genre Fiction is JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN LITERARY FICTION AND BTW DID YOU NOTICE THAT GENRE FICTION DOESN’T GET ANY RESPECT AND HOW ABOUT SOME FREAKING REVIEW ATTENTION” police: I kid because I love.
– Also to be clear: just because your novel is what I personally call literary fiction doesn’t mean you have to call it that in a query or when you’re discussing it with your friends. Different people and different agents have different ways of categorizing that vast array of books that go in the “general fiction” section of a bookstore. Some agents are more than happy to hear you call it mainstream or commercial or what have you. I call just about all non-genre fiction “literary” as a way of reminding writers that if you’re going to write non-genre fiction it probably needs to be a bit more highbrow, stylized, and yes, “literary.” I know I’m generalizing.
– In my opinion a well-written query does not necessarily have to specify a genre. Sometimes it’s helpful to know what the genre the author thinks the novel falls into, but I should be able to tell the genre simply from the tone of the query and the plot description.
– Please remember: friends do not let friends lose sleep over genre distinctions. It’s not worth worrying over. Just pick one, and if you find an agent they’ll tell you what it is.
But what do you think about the poll? What does it mean???
D. G. Hudson says
What the poll says to me is that a lot of genre fiction (combined) is keeping pace with literary fiction. (as of Thursday noon anyway)
IMO,it also indicates that many writers are targetting the young adult and middle grade audiences. (Thanks to Meyer and Rowling for that.)
It's always good to see a sampling of what's being written, but polls are always dynamic and tastes change. I don't follow trends, but it always helps to know the competition.
Kristi says
Well, I think there are a lot of us who also write MG and PB's but I used one of my YA's for the poll mainly because I know you don't rep much of the former. Also, I think back to great books from earlier in my life (A Wrinkle in Time) and I think there will always be a market for fantasy.
As far as the whole genre vs. literary thing: I love reading both and don't think one is superior over the other. Besides, the definition of literary is "things involving or pertaining to literature" and one definition of literature is "creative writing that has recognized artistic value." If beauty and art are in the eye of the beholder, then it could be argued that all books are literary.
Quick question if you have the time: If an agent already reps someone who writes about a specific fantasy element (e.g. faeries), are they less inclined to take on another author that has a similar element? Just wondering. Thanks for the poll.
Valerie says
I'm so glad I'm writing YA so that I don't have to worry about the genre distinctions so much. Yay for the Teen Fiction bookstore shelf!
Anonymous says
though a necessary discussion, this genre chat post gives me a headache.
what is 'The Road' (an apocalyptic thriller?) 'Trauma' (a psychological Sharon Stone vehicle?) or 'His Illegal Self' (a coming of age, bicultural adventure?) 'Platform' (erotica?)
I know you're trying to provide clarity; stilll, these genres seem so reductive … 'and now, I'm in the cracker section! Where's the coffee?'
What about the 'books I'd like to read' genre?
Ink says
Bane,
I decided to jazz things up. Except it's not the photo I really wanted. I seem to have lost (hopefully a temporary thing) all my best photographs. Well, I have lots of photos of my kids, but I ain't using those.
And I almost used a photo of Lyndon Baines Johnson. It was neck and neck.
judy b. says
The best explanation of literary fiction I ever heard was at Squaw Valley several years ago. The person said, "Literary fiction has a matte finish, where general fiction tends to have a glossy cover."
I tend to write with a matte finish, if you're wondering, but I can dig the gloss.
Rose says
With over 20% of your respondents writing YA, I think the poll means that your blog has a lot of younger readers who still remember the angst of their teenage years.
For the time being anyway. Until middle age catches up with you lot.
Tottering off on my cane, now.
liznwyrk says
Judy B- that is hilarious!
Ink says
Bane,
And, yes, I'm ignoring that scurrilous picture you put up. 81, I think, is a terrible number. Very awkward. He should have stopped at 80. I'd have given him some respect, then. But 81? No.
Laura Martone says
I agree with Bane (naturally) that the poll shows there's a lot of competition out there. Yikes! I was also surprised to learn how many of us are writing literary fiction.
But, Nathan, one thing that leaped out at me was your fifth "thought" – that even if a book straddles genres, it's still stocked in one or the other. Some authors seem to defy this policy – Carol Goodman, for instance, is sometimes placed in the literature section and sometimes in mystery… makes it hard for me to find her books at times. 🙁
Bane of Anubis says
81 — 9^2 — 3^4 — a number to admire, methinks 😉
T. Anne says
I'm glad there was diversity in the poll results. If every one of us selected the same genre, there would be cause for worry.BTW, thanks for your Literary fiction dissertation. I happen to agree with you.
Lydia Sharp says
Okay, with all this genre consideration, I have a serious question for you, Nathan. You say you're open to many different types of novels, including science fiction (and we'll just ignore the fact that it's the last one mentioned in your sidebar profile). 😉
Out of curiosity (and for completely selfish reasons because I currently have 2 SF WIPs and another 2 in my head, waiting for my attention), how many SF novels have you represented recently? You say, "When in doubt, query me," and, not that I'm in doubt, but since you have been so helpful to me through your blog, I'd like to (at least try to) return the favor by querying you first.
How open are you to SF right now? I don't see any in your book list o' fame on the main page.
Firefly says
Nathan, Everyone should read the Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime. That is an awesome book!
I have a question — is there a reason you don't have a category for YA suspense?
Yat-Yee says
What I think of the post?
1)I like learning more about what the people in the industry, ie you, think of it.
2)1908 WIP? On poll? I feel a sense of belonging (so many people writing) and slightly depressed (how on earth am I going to make my work stand out? And what chance do I have really?)
Rick: thanks for the stats.
Nathan Bransford says
lydia-
I'm definitely open to science fiction. I haven't had a match there yet, but I'm really hoping to find the right project. Bear in mind that I'm a young agent still building my list in earnest, so I don't have all of my areas of interest covered with sales. Hopefully I will soon!
Yat-Yee says
Oops. 1809 wips. *One* poll, not *on* poll.
Nathan Bransford says
firefly-
I just didn't list "suspense/thriller" in YA and Middle Grade because of space issues. They go with mystery, as with Adult.
Lydia Sharp says
Nathan,
Thanks for the honest (and amazingly quick) reply.
Scott says
I think mainstream America's tastes in entertainment have simplified emotionally. That is to say, we seek escape in star-gazing, romantic and childhood type fantasies because adulthood is so locked down in complexity. It used to be we were still discovering ourselves, and some of us are still interested in that, but it would appear the majority of readers are discovering bills and the infiltration of a ubiquitous and dangerous technological media into their lives and the lives of their families. So much so, in fact, that they'd rather think about fantastic and fairytale-like imagery than what might be considered "contemporary lore". In turn, I think there are more writers these days sprung from the school of J.K. Rowling and Charlaine Harris and the like who sense a more even playing field and are out to feed the demand in their spare time.
As a male fiction writer, I know my breed is on the wane. Men don't like fiction outside of the typical thriller, and women might not care to cotton to my voice and ideas. So you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to keep writing because one day it might just be me who, in my understanding, turns the prevailing tide.
Margaret Yang says
I was surprised that you broke down the YA categories because all of the bookstores/libraries I visit shelve all the YA together alphabetically. So, a YA mystery can be shelved right next to a YA fantasy. Do other bookstores do it differently?
Thermocline says
"I tend to receive more queries for nonfiction and middle grade than is reflected here."
Do you want to receive middle grade submissions? You’ve said you probably wouldn’t take one on so I haven’t submitted my upper middle grade novel to you. It’s close to that border between MG and YA and I think you might be interested in the story.
Nathan Bransford says
MY-
I did that intentionally so people could see the genre breakout within YA especially. I didn't intend for the poll to be strictly by bookstore section, that's just what I advise people to go by in case they're not sure.
Mira says
Actually, I'm definitely wondering the same thing Thermocline is – Nathan, do you want to be queryied on genres that aren't listed there?
You don't list non-fiction, other than narrative non-fiction, for example, as well as others. Do you consider representation in these genres, or is it better to look elsewhere?
Nathan Bransford says
When in doubt……..
Nathan Bransford says
(hint)
Mira says
Okey dokey.
Good.
The MBA Jenna says
Nathan, I think the poll reflects your readership much more than the market.
A few 2007 sales numbers:
Romance: $1.4 billion
Sci-fi/fantasy: $700 million
Mystery: $650 million
Literary fiction: $466 million
So, clearly, there are many more romance books (which I think included all subgenres of romance and chick lit and "women's fiction" as well) being written and sold than any other type, by a factor of at least 2.
I've never seen anybody from the RWA loops in your blog, so I suspect you're missing that huge market segment.
The MBA Jenna says
Actually, now that I think about it, the factor is probably much greater than 2, since the price of most romances (ex-Nora Roberts) is less than $10 and the typical mystery and lit. fic. book tends to come out as a $20+ hardbound, and then maybe a $12-15 paperback.
So a WHOLE lot of romances are being written and purchased to get to that $1.4 billion number.
clindsay says
Also interesting to note that although 32% of your readers are writing fantasy & SF of some sort, only about 2% of editors are actually in a position to buy it.
Bane of Anubis says
Colleen, be a major killjoy, why don't ya? 😉
Other Lisa says
Very interesting stats. I think Brian's theories about this are pretty much dead on – a large percentage of fantasy/paranormal readers also write, and as a group spend more time on the Internetz than, say, mystery writers.
This isn't the only place where the percentages skew higher than sales – I've noticed on AW there is a high percentage of people writing fantasy/paranormal – that and YA.
Maybe because the Romance world is so highly organized because of the RWA – I am guessing that writers/readers flock to websites/loops that are dedicated to romance (like Smart Bitches for example) more than they do general interest industry blogs.
(me = quirky suspense with a sorta literary gloss…er, matte)
Mira says
MBA Jenna, I like your name. 🙂
Connie, where did you get that statistic from? When I look at upcoming books, there sure are alot of fantasy books coming out. I would imagine there's a real demand for fantasy in economic hard times.
Mira says
Whoops. Meant Colleen.
Tamara Hart Heiner says
You blog absolutely cracked me up.
Yep, just pick a genre. B/c like Nathan said, the editor/publisher/agent can always change it. I picked YA/mainstream when I submitted my ms. My publisher changed it to adult/thriller. Wow. Not what I expected.
Anonymous says
"A book can't have one half stocked in one section of the bookstore and one half in another."
But sometimes it can. I saw this just the other day in Books a Million with Neil Gaiman's "Graveyard Book." Stocked in both the children's section and general fiction section.
Nathan Bransford says
anon-
For huge bestsellers: yes, occasionally. For most books: no.
wonderer says
For those wondering if your book might be fantasy/SF/paranormal (note: that's what I write): My rule of thumb is that if it has fantastical/impossible elements in it, that kind of overrules everything else. It can be organized around a mystery, say, but if there's nonexistent technology, it's still science fiction; if there's magic or magical creatures, it's still fantasy. It doesn't have to have spaceships to be science fiction, and it doesn't have to look like LORD OF THE RINGS to be fantasy. (You all probably know this, but I've talked to people who don't.)
Of course, there are exceptions. Janet Reid reps mystery/thrillers and doesn't take fantasy/SF queries, but she represents Jeff Somers, who appears (to an SF/F reader's eye) to write near-future SF thrillers. Paranormal romance could go either to Harlequin or to an SF/F house. And one could go off on a long tangent about literary SF/F (but one won't 😉 ). So: when in doubt, query widely, but start with the agents who list SF/F in their interests.
Kat Sheridan says
Other Lisa, I'd been waiting for someone to point that out. I'm the romance writing kind, and while I find Nathan witty, interesting, and full of good industry info, I also know he will never rep me,and so must spend my allotted blog-reading time sucking up to–er, um–becoming familiar with the tastes of agents to whom I might actually have a prayer of connecting one day. Nathan, I do have your blog linked to my home page, and lurk madly, but I'm a simple writer of simple love stories (sort of–my little gothic one has a body count of ten before The End), without literary aspirations, and must share my time between eating bon-bons with other romance-minded types. But I did add my vote on your poll yesterday, so that counts as interaction with you. I just failed to also comment.
mkcbunny says
This was a really interesting poll. That Pimp My Novel post on literary fiction had me down, but this follow-up is more encouraging.
I agree with previous posts about fantasy and romance writers being well-networked and organized. I think that has something to do with their being a high percentage of them on sites such as this one and AW.
I suppose I should take cheer that I'm writing literary fiction that has elements of fantasy, romance, and mystery but is not dense. 🙂
Meagan Brooks says
Very interesting poll and discussion. Seriously, what a stimulating environment. This is the first time I've left a comment; I’m scared to mingle with all the other comments and their incredible brain power.
Nathan, I don't mean to change the subject, but I've had a question for a while, and I don't want to send an unnecessary email to your already loaded inbox. If you want to ignore this comment, then I've made it easy for you. Anyway, I want to go to a writer’s conference, but, as a new writer, I feel kind of lost. Does it matter what conference you attend? Are some better than others? What would you recommend? And how should I, as a writer, prepare? What are they all about anyway? I’ve seen some with classes, speakers, etc? Anyway, maybe one of these days, when you’ve run out of blogging ideas, you could post something about these mysterious conferences and your opinions, suggestions, or both. Or, if you want, you can ignore this, and I’ll melt back into the background.
F.Y.I—I did read the FAQ section, but I’m looking for more.
MBA Jenna says
Thanks Mira! Before reading this thread, I'd forgotten that there is another Jenna who comments.
Before "Dallas" (yes, I am that old), I'd only met 2 other Jennas, ever. Now it requires a modifier.
On this blog I seem to post only about the business side of things (though I write paranormal chick lit: Jennifer Weiner with vampires), so the MBA seems appropriate.
Not something you have to worry about with a moniker like "Mira!"
Maybe it's all the sci-fi/fantasy I read, but I think naming is critical and I'm sad that Jenna has become so common that I won't even use it for my pseudonym.
Oh Bane of Anubis, I am sooo jealous…(smile)
Bane of Anubis says
Hey Jenna, at least you don't have a name that's been in the top 10 list for X number of years (and, unfortunately, I have no cool middle name either — something like Killian or Ulric would work) — then again, no famous adult-film actors have my first name (that I know of) 😉
Haven't seen too many Miras… but one of my first novels of early teenage years had one (and she was a major badass 🙂
Nathan Bransford says
meagan-
Thanks for the comment! You have very good questions, but quite honestly I'm probably not the best person to answer them because I've only attended a writing conference as an agent and thus a writer probably has a different perspective on how to get the most out of them. I do think some are better than others, but I couldn't really offer my opinion on that without offending some people.
You might see what people have to say at Absolute Write. I'm sure there are people there that can recommend some good conferences and give you some tips on how to get the most out of them.
Good luck!
Anonymous says
I finished Cormac McCarthy's The Road the same day that you posted the iPhone image the other day. Quite simply, that book is a beautifully written, complete waste of time.
Anonymous says
Competition? I don't know about that.
An old rancher once said that the only competition he ever worried about was from the livestock that made it to the same auction as his livestock.
Writing a novel has an incredibly long lead-time and many, many of these novels will be in WIP (work in process) for some time. I’d be interested in knowing where these novel are in the writing process: Concept, developing first draft, first revision, second revision, seeking representation, or it-has- been-sitting-on-top-of-my-closet-shelf-for-years, etc.
The only competition I am worried about will be from the manuscripts seeking representation when I am putting mine on the market.
Nathan, could you conduct another survey to measure the manuscripts' development phase?
Meagan Brooks says
Nathan,
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
Nathan Bransford says
anon-
Read my mind.
Scott says
Anon, that's an interesting comment. Care to elaborate?
For the record, I've not read it.
Scott says
Incidentally, my comment was meant for the anon who thought The Road was a waste of time.