Thanks everyone for voting in yesterday’s work in progress genre poll! It has certainly been illuminating and interesting.
My assorted thoughts:
– First of all, wow, as of right now over 1,700 works in progress! And that’s just among the people who happened to have visited my blog since yesterday. There are lots and lots and lots of books being written out there.
– People have asked if the genre breakdown corresponds with the proportion of books actually published or in proportion to my queries. In a word: no. Not so much. As you probably know there’s a great deal more nonfiction and romance published than is reflected in the poll, as well as more books for younger readers (middle grade and younger). The poll is somewhat similar to the genre breakdown I see in my Inbox, but there too I tend to receive more queries for nonfiction and middle grade than is reflected here.
– I know I shouldn’t be surprised, but still: when you combine paranormal and fantasy across age groups it comprises 32% of all works in progress. That’s a lot!! Perhaps that’s reflective of who reads my blog (even if I’m not exactly known for fantasy, though I’m open to it), or who’s online voting in polls, or what people out there want to read, or maybe the lingering Stephenie Meyer/JK Rowling effect, but wow. One out of three!
– There were several comments to the effect of, “Well, my novel is this this this and this, and I can’t bear to click ‘mystery’ because it’s so much more than that.” Well… if you don’t click the mystery box your publisher will be clicking it for you. Books don’t just stock themselves, people! As you’re writing your novel you should be cognizant of where you’re going to be stocked in the bookstore or categorized by online retailers. I’m sure there’s a bookstore or library somewhere out there that just stocks every single book alphabetically… but I haven’t seen it.
– Also: if your book straddles genres it’s usually helpful if it has its feet more firmly in one genre or another, even if it combines multiple genres. A book can’t have one half stocked in one section of the bookstore and one half in another. And from a nuts and bolts perspective, there are editors who handle mystery and editors who handle fantasy, they don’t tend to overlap, and your agent will have to send your novel to one or the other. From there, publishers are going to be marketing to a certain audience and making the decision about where to stock your book. Yes, there are plenty of exceptions to this, but particularly for debuts it can be difficult if a novel is not quite literary, not quite paranormal, not quite women’s fiction, and not quite mystery. You don’t want to fall into genre no man’s land.
– As I mentioned in the comments section, literary fiction is a category, not a value judgment. Literary fiction, at least by my definition, spans from the quite accessible to the most dense. A novel doesn’t have to be FINNEGAN’S WAKE to be considered literary fiction.
– Aside from the broad category of what I call “book club fiction,” which tends to straddle the line between literary and accessible and tends to reach a wider audience than “pure” literary fiction, there is not a great deal of non-genre “commercial” or “mainstream” fiction published today. Just about every single published book can be categorized (if crudely) into the genres I listed for polling. Most published novels that are “contemporary” and do not fall into a particular genre tend to be more “literary” and have more stylized prose than genre fiction. Emphasis on “tend to be,” and again, these are categories, not judgments. The “Genre Fiction is JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN LITERARY FICTION AND BTW DID YOU NOTICE THAT GENRE FICTION DOESN’T GET ANY RESPECT AND HOW ABOUT SOME FREAKING REVIEW ATTENTION” police can drop their weapons. For the time being.
– “For the time being” is a really weird phrase when you think about it. For the time being… what? What is the time being? And how the heck does “time being” mean “for now?” I don’t get it.
– And “Genre Fiction is JUST AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN LITERARY FICTION AND BTW DID YOU NOTICE THAT GENRE FICTION DOESN’T GET ANY RESPECT AND HOW ABOUT SOME FREAKING REVIEW ATTENTION” police: I kid because I love.
– Also to be clear: just because your novel is what I personally call literary fiction doesn’t mean you have to call it that in a query or when you’re discussing it with your friends. Different people and different agents have different ways of categorizing that vast array of books that go in the “general fiction” section of a bookstore. Some agents are more than happy to hear you call it mainstream or commercial or what have you. I call just about all non-genre fiction “literary” as a way of reminding writers that if you’re going to write non-genre fiction it probably needs to be a bit more highbrow, stylized, and yes, “literary.” I know I’m generalizing.
– In my opinion a well-written query does not necessarily have to specify a genre. Sometimes it’s helpful to know what the genre the author thinks the novel falls into, but I should be able to tell the genre simply from the tone of the query and the plot description.
– Please remember: friends do not let friends lose sleep over genre distinctions. It’s not worth worrying over. Just pick one, and if you find an agent they’ll tell you what it is.
But what do you think about the poll? What does it mean???
Bane of Anubis says
It means there's lots of competition… it's like trying to make it to The Show out here.
Not sure if it's good or bad that everybody's jumped on the fantasy bandwagon — more visibility, I guess, but more rungs to climb as well.
Fawn Neun says
Nathan, "Literary Fiction" still smacks of a value measurement, but yeah, okay, you know what you're talking about. So please clarify. Please DEFINE literary fiction.
(And is it the kiss of death in the current market?)
Would you suggest that women literary fiction be described as one or the other?
Charlie says
My novel is a romantic thriller with elements of science-fiction. It will probably be filed under the sci-fi label because of a little time machine, but it's really not sci-fi in the classic sense.
Nathan Bransford says
fawn-
It's not the kiss of death, especially with my broad definition. It can be difficult to place, especially without a good solid hook and when it's particularly inaccessible, but every book is its own challenge.
Please check the FAQs or publishing glossary for my post on what literary fiction is, and I'll also put it in the main post. It's probably the #1 most asked question at this point.
Jen P says
I'd love to know a year from now, how many of those 1,700 are finished.
'Literary fiction is a category, not a value judgment,' should be a bumper sticker.
I was surprised there was such a fair split in the top 3 – mystery/suspense/thriller, fantasy and literary fiction. But if you add in the YA fantasy it is overall a much higher proportion.
Nice to see that many fellow lit. fic writers have the same apprehensions when discussing their work. The value judgment by others seemed a common thread.
I'm impressed that people are focused and aware of the markets to find a good fit for their WIP. And intrigued by those who said other…to find out what else it might be?
There's a lot of competition out there! Good luck everyone.
J.J. Bennett says
It means there's a lot of people writing fantasy of some or another. I think people are writing them because…
1. They are selling well currently.
2. It's popular and a wide range of people read them.
3. Economy…People want to escape to somewhere else.
Bane of Anubis says
Clarification: Trying to make it to The Show w/ a much smaller paycheck 🙂
Melanie says
The poll shows that my ghost-story-that-is-otherwise-not-paranormal may be doomed? Ah, well…nothing to do but keep working on it!
Anyway, I always thought that "for the time being" meant "for the time that currently exists" which must mean "the now," because all other time is past and future.
J.J. Bennett says
FYI… (Note to self)Don't talk on the phone and comment at the same time.
MeganRebekah says
I think that people write what's hot. And not necessairly because they think it will sell better (which is a big reason) but because it's what they're reading right now. When I read YA my mind works like a YA writer. When I read Christian Fiction, my writer brain starts thinking that way.
As long as fantasy/para stays hot, you will continue to see most WIPs in those genres.
jimnduncan says
Lol, it means we get to talk and lose sleep over genre distinctions. Yay! I've had this issue with my "suspense" novel. Suspense isn't really a formal category. It's one of those things lumped into myster/thriller. It's got a paranormal element to it, so then it's verging on urban fantasy. There's a light romantic element, so one might even push it toward romantic suspense if one wanted to.
However, I think the vast majority of books have some central core element that provides a definition. In mine there's a killer that the good guys are trying to stop. It's not a mystery because we no who the bad guy is. It's in that loose suspense/thriller category. All of the other elements are just icing on the cake, giving it additional appeal and flavor.
JES says
You may have seen that Eric's Pimp My Novel blog has been exploring genre from a retail perspective. This may be where some of the confusion about "literary" comes from: he all but said, Do NOT write literary fiction — whereas what you call "literary" fiction makes up the largest section in many bookstores.
Anonymous says
I love that so many people share my passion for books and writing. I've learned so much from this blog and those who comment on it. Thank you.
J.J. Bennett says
Just call me "Grace"…My gosh that's a mess…Sorry Nathan.
I still missed a word…Must not be my day.
Mira says
What does it mean? Well, since you left one of my primary genres out completely, it may mean I've got a bit of convincing to do to get you to be my agent.
But I'm up for the challenge. The "bug you until you become my agent just to get me off your back" approach doesn't seem to be working, so I may need to try another tactic. I'll sure I'll come up with something….
I also think this poll means that people who write fantasy/paranormal tend to be more introverted and frequent more blogs. That would be my guess.
Also, as you and others have mentioned, those who are hoping for a big seller hit may be looking to ride on the fantasy bandwagon. It was interesting that your link (on Tuesday) to the best grossing movies of all times included almost all fantasy films based off of fantasy books.
I do want to weigh in on the competition thing, though. I do NOT believe in the competition thing. I hope people won't let something like this scare them. Just work on your novel. If it's good enough, it will get published.
I absolutely and whole-heartedly believe that.
Also, very important: no matter how much competition there is out there, what you write is completely unique. At the base of it, no one can compete with a unique product.
Nathan Bransford says
I think what people mean by "don't write literary fiction" is don't write literary fiction that is inaccessible and dense if you're hoping for a large audience. Rightly or wrongly that's just how our culture is right now. Again, not a value judgment: I like dense books. There just aren't many people out there who read them on a regular basis.
At the same time, no one ever said don't write THE STORY OF EDGAR SAWTELLE or LIFE OF PI or CURIOUS INCIDENT OF THE DOG IN THE NIGHT TIME or THE WONDROUS LIFE OF OSCAR WAO, even though those can be classified as literary. Those books are literary and unique, they just happen to have an interesting concept/hook and are reasonably accessible.
Dara says
I love seeing what others are writing! And it's nice to know I'm not the only one slightly confused about what genre my WiP falls into (I'm beginning to think it's more fantasy the more I read about it, so that may be what I classify it as eventually…)
But as you say, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. 🙂
Sarah Laurenson says
I've been a member of the Science Fiction Book Club for over 30 years now. I also think your more tech savvy writers will heavily favor reading and writing SF or fantasy. Not surprised at the 32%.
It's the younger generation who grew up with computers as the norm who can skew the numbers back to what they might be in real life.
Trashy Cowgirl says
I think that I am going to just call my wip Literary, though it is definitely Frontier and deals with some very female issues. If "Broke Back Mountain" had been sold as gay fiction, it wouldn't have found such a large audience, and if it had been sold as Frontier, well… I don't even want to go there.
I'm sort of walking a fine line, as well, and I think in that case, it pays to keep your many ambitions low key, and just go with the genre that can best carry the work.
Anne B. says
Ultimately, I write the genres I read (with one exception). I'm not looking to write to what's happening in the market because by the time I get the novel written, re-written and then make the rounds of the agents, etc., the market will have changed.
Sigh. I just wish my preferred genres weren't so popular with other writers.
Dara says
BTW, I do have one question: where exactly is historical fiction shelved in a bookstore? I don't think I've ever seen a section specifically devoted to it (only non-fiction history has its own, from what I've seen). Is it just normally catergorized in the "General Fiction/Literature" section?
Maybe the question was answered and I just missed it somewhere…
Anonymous says
I view literary fiction as all the fiction that is placed in that big ass section of Barnes and Noble called Fiction and Literature.
With that definition, MOST of what gets stocked at bookstores is literary fiction. Book club fiction would also be placed here. It's a lot broader than you'd assume, since the people that write it are sometimes accused of trying to write "important" or "heavy" things.
Where do they get that? Lit fiction is fun! It's not necessarily self important but more just NOT crime/thrillers/mystery/ or suspence. Lit fiction, to me, is more character driven than break-neck speed plot driven.
Ulysses says
I think the poll was illuminating. Non-scientific, of course. I think the discrepency between the numbers in the poll and the numbers in your mailbox have a lot to do with the audience you attract here. They tend to be
blog readers, which implies a certain level of technical interest/savvy. Those of us who spend inordinate amounts of time on the computer tend to be of the personality type to which sf/f appeals.
It's interesting to see the sheer numbers. Lots of us. I'd love to see the poll repeated in a year or two, just to see what and how things have changed.
What does it mean? That literacy is alive and well in the internet age. So many people writing…
jbchicoine says
I’m glad for the discussion on “Literary” genre. Thanks.
David says
1700 is the minimum number of WIPs. We don't know how many of your blog readers didn't vote.
Ink says
I think the poll supports a thought I've been having for awhile: that the fantasy genre has the highest ratio of want-to-be-a-writer to reader of any form out there. Also known as the WtobeaW:Reader Ratio.
Which might have something to do with the inherent nature of the genre, the sheer amount of creation going on (creativity inspires creativity), and also to place of role playing games (both virtual and non-virtual). A lot of the people who read these books are also the core market demographic for role-playing games… and the people who are used to playing those games are used to creating their own worlds, their own stories, their own characters. It seems a short bridge to writing more complete stories. Thus… Fantasymania! (and, of course, its cousin Paranormalmania! People often think they're twins. Maybe the matching leather outfits…).
Just my thoughts. They're worth, according to internet research, about two cents… Very disappointing, really. Not even a nickel? I need better marketing.
Kia says
I like literary fiction in that most of my favourite books can be classified as literary fiction, but I do think there's a point where it wanders off into ostentation.
A book like Life of Pi is great because it's so accessible and genuinely absorbing. To be honest, I think many of us persevere with the more dense variety of lit-fic novels just so we can say we've read them… or is that just me?
Ink says
Kia,
I like dense books… in moderation. And usually well separated. But, I must admit, as much as I love Joyce, I have yet to conquer Finnegan's Wake. Perhaps, indeed, it is unconquerable. Just the way Joyce wanted it…
Cat Moleski says
I love your questions, Nathan. I think what it means is that what writers write is very similar to how a group of gnats moves through the air. Sometimes you’re in the middle of the pack, sometimes you’re on the edge, but it is all shifting so quickly and for seemingly random reasons. I just think it’s great that there are authors plugging away in the underrepresented categories. Who knows when they will be, not only in the middle of the pack, but the leader of the pack because they are doing that kind of work now? I am definitely an advocate of writing what you want to write whether it’s currently popular or not.
Trashy Cowgirl says
Nathan, I'm not disputing that internet savvy types are more likely to both read your blog, and being techies are probably more into writing Sci-Fi, but I did want to make a little noise for those of us in the middle-of-nowhere who are blogging in via dial-up. I know, I didn't vote Sci-fi, but I just thought the world ought to know, we are out there. Yes, really. Dial-up.
Rogue Novelist says
Throughout the few decades(six) I've been reading I've decided that wannabe published writers follow publishing trends, or in urban language that would be faddition. That pertains to all age groups. I know writers don't want to read this, don't even want to acknowledge this, but, just because Stephenie Meyer made history, not every writer-hack, copy-cat and jokester will make it writing a fantasy love story with bite.
It's not what category or genre or definitions of genres you write in that will get you published, it's your creative writing skills; the defining knowledge, education, experiences along with a different, exceptional topic that will generate notice.
Ignore the genres. Define your writing future, and write something evolutionary, a story that will bust open the minds of literary agents and publishers.
Kourtnie McKenzie says
It means excitement, because not only am I writing a wonderful fantasy YA, but there might be wonderful fantasy YA that I can purchase in the following years for my reading pleasure! I always pick up the debut author hardcover in the YA section first. 🙂 (Unless it's like Kristin Cashore's Fire; I'll make a specific beeline to Barnes and Noble for that one.)
hannah says
re. literary/commercial–That's one of my favorite things about querying YA. I don't write genre, so I just pitch it as YA and avoid the whole "is this literary?" debacle. It will be shelved in the same place either way, but if an agent/editor wants to know if it's literary or not, they can read. It's always nice when you get a chance to shut up about your book and let it speak for itself.
ryan field says
I thought the entire poll was fascinating. And I'm hoping that people are writing these mss because they absolutely love their genres and not because they are popular and they are selling.
Bane of Anubis says
Bryan, when did you go and get yourself a pic? Surprised it's not of LBJ (playa, not prez ;)or even Mr. Bosh (the oh so creative nickname my n'er do wells assigned me in jr. high)…
Speaking of Joyce, never met a book of his I couldn't put down after a sentence or 2.
Anonymous says
Kia–
That's kind of insulting, and the literary equivalent to a criticism I see leveled in the music world a lot more often (i.e., "You listen to [that band I don't like] just to be pretentious.")
Sean Craven says
While my book may be a genre mess if inspected closely, I know where it goes in the bookstore.
Wherever they shelve Jonathan Carrol, Christopher Moore, and Neil Gaiman. There is a market for what I'm doing, even if I'm not sure what it's called.
CKHB says
I think it's fascinating that so many people are writing in categories that don't interest me AT ALL as a writer. (As a reader, perhaps, but not as a writer.)
I'm sure those authors feel the same way about my category…
RW says
Nathan, can I suggest a modification of your maxim that literary fiction is a genre and not a value judgment? Perhaps it's more accurate to say that it's not necessarily a value judgment. Or not a judgement when used to answer the question of what category something goes in. The term seems to be slippery and therefore used (by some people, if not yourself or whoever is deciding what shelf to put the books on) as a value judgment sometimes and not other times.
Marilyn Peake says
Nathan asked: "But what do you think about the poll? What does it mean???"
I think it reflects the WIPs of people who visited your blog yesterday and decided to vote. It might also reflect the current WIPs of people who visit your blog on a regular basis, but that might not be true.
Writing a really good book and categorizing it are two different things. Of the two, writing a really good book is the most important. If the book is amazing and has sales potential, it will get categorized.
Laura says
I didn't read all of the comments, but the English nerd in me has to answer– "for the time being" literally means for the time that is now. "Being" as a verb indicates a state of "is" and an immediacy, as in the actual present moment. So, it's like saying "for the time that is now…"
I think there is a lot of fantasy/horror/paranormal out there, I tend to believe it is being published more than other genres because it seems to be what people buy the most and tell their friends about. But that's just a "seems like from my own little world" perspective.
Anonymous says
You never cease to amaze. Great poll even though it is (like you said) "non-scientific."
I think the fantasy interest and consumption could be attributed to Gen Y'ers, all 74 million of them. This is the Harry Potter, LOTR (re-birth), and gaming (mostly fantasy) generation. Simply put, this is what Gen Y'ers eat for breakfast. I don't think it is what's hot now. It's the essence of this generation like WWII was to Traditionalist.
Just one off non-scientific opinion anyway..
Rick Daley says
We may have to wait two years to see how the poll reflects on the reality of what is published. Mark your calendars.
For those who struggle to define the genre of their work:
Go to a couple bookstores and look at the books on the shelves where you think yours should be. When you get there, pick a couple and read the jacket copy. Think about your query, and think about your manuscript:
Does it fit in?
And more importantly, does it stand out?
Anonymous says
I was just pleased to see so many storytellers answer the poll… That's all we are, at the end of the day, genres be darned.
Rick Daley says
Here are some stats from The Public Query Slushpile. Some of the same trends are evident here, like the heavy weighting for fantasy. Some of these categories will double dip…If a query is a Young Adult Fantasy I tag it with each label. Also, many queries posted to the site have multiple revisions.
These are based on the genres stated in the queries, with the exception of Guess the Genre which is the label I used when it is not stated.
Adult Fantasy (1) 0.3%
Chapter Book (1) 0.3%
Children's (6) 2.0%
Christian Fiction (2) 0.7%
Comedy (1) 0.3%
Commercial Fiction (11) 3.7%
Crime (6) 2.0%
Dark Fantasy (1) 0.3%
Dystopian Fiction (1) 0.3%
Epic Fantasy (1) 0.3%
Erotic (1) 0.3%
Family Drama (1) 0.3%
Family Saga (1) 0.3%
Fantasy (48) 16.3%
Gay/Lesbian (6) 2.0%
General Fiction (1) 0.3%
Guess the Genre (18) 6.1%
Historical Fiction (2) 0.7%
Horror (3) 1.0%
Literary Fiction (8) 2.7%
Middle-Grade (12) 4.1%
Multicultural (1) 0.3%
Mystery (6) 2.0%
Mythology (1) 0.3%
Novella (3) 1.0%
Paranormal (12) 4.1%
Picture Book (5) 1.7%
Romance (10) 3.4%
Romantic Suspense (1) 0.3%
Science (1) 0.3%
Science Fiction (10) 3.4%
Supernatural (2) 0.7%
Suspense (5) 1.7%
Thriller (18) 6.1%
Upmarket Fiction (1) 0.3%
Urban Fantasy (18) 6.1%
Women's Fiction (12) 4.1%
Young Adult (56) 19.0%
Bane of Anubis says
Good on ya, Ricky D – Thanks…
Cheryl says
I took your advice and strolled through my local B&N this morning to see where my WIP might be shelved by comparing it to existing published works. The sign on top of the bookshelf…. Fiction and Literature. Yeah…. that clarifies things. LOL
Thanks for conducting the poll. I'm not surprised by the large numbers in the Paranormal, SciFi and Fantasy categories, although I was surprised there wasn't more in the romance category.
Steph Damore says
I'm with Anne B. – Generally I too write the type of books that I read. It's kind of along the same concept "write what you know."
For me it's not necessarily about following publishing trends – although I was happy to read
Pimp My Novel's take on mystery genre's sales and see they should continue to do well.
What does this poll mean? It means you've got some very talented followers Nathan who seem excited and determined to break into (or remain solid) in the publishing world.
Rick Daley says
And finally, my $0.02 on the time being.
There are many definitions of the word "being". Given the glut of paranormal and fantasy fans out there, I choose to use this one:
-One that lives or exists.
In this sense, time becomes an adjective to describe the being, and the "time being" is one who has a strong influence over time.
"For the time being" can then clearly be seen as an offering to the being that influences time.
Of course, this would mean that most people use this phrase incorrectly, but that's not my problem.
Hillary says
I really struggle with genre distinctions. My current book started out as a revenge thriller, but then I noticed how cliched thrillers are, and I started mocking the thriller. Then, the gods interfered, quite literally, and the Ancient Greek deities were thrown into the mix. (It makes sense, trust me). Although the plot is important,the main driving force of the novel is character development and internal struggles to find meaning in two worlds.
So, it's a tragicomic literary suspense fantasy that ends with a shootout.
Not surprisingly, that wasn't one of the options given in your poll.