I watched the Mickey Rourke movie The Wrestler the other night, and I thought it was great. In case you haven’t seen it, Rourke plays an aging pro wrestler struggling with his health, his estranged daughter, and a solitary, poor life.
One of the reasons this movie really resonated with me was because I thought it was a moving illustration of the lengths artists and athletes to go to live a life that’s more than ordinary. There are some people who just want more out of life, and in order to achieve it they’re willing to forego time with friends and family spending hours huddled in front of a laptop, or, in the case of The Wrestler, wrestling in a bloody match featuring barbed wire and staple guns.
At the same time, “The Wrestler” wasn’t exactly a glorification of Randy “The Ram’s” life. He’s broken, depressed, estranged from his daughter, and basically alone in life. He’s devoted his life to an unsustainable dream – his body is failing him and he has nothing else to live for.
Ultimately I think the power of the movie comes from the sympathy his quest generates. Most people want something more out of life, and when that fails even despite almost insane efforts and doing every single thing possible, it’s one of life’s great tragedies. People still strive even when it becomes harmful.
Anyone else seen the movie? What do you think about it, and the sometimes simultaneously aspirational and destructive writing life?
Dawn says
I haven’t seen the film. I don’t actively seek out films that I suspect won’t leave me feeling happy or uplifted. So “The Wrestler” will probably not make my list. I’m a wimp that way.
As far as writing at the expense of my other relationships, I can’t. I’m on disability, living with my parents and there’s no where for me to go except into my writing. I do it because I need it.
Jen C says
Regarding wanting more from life, I don’t think I want more, I have always just expected it. The story of my life already goes way against the grain, and I plan on continuing that!
I love to write, and I will always write, but if it doesn’t work out in the publishing sense, I’ll find something else. (I’m always about 2 heartbeats away from running off and joining the circus!).
Lucinda says
“What do you think about it, and the sometimes simultaneously aspirational and destructive writing life?”Great question, Nathan.
After reading your take on the movie and the many responses to it, there remains a feeling of rationale in the air.
(I have not seen the movie, and I probably won’t because I don’t watch…)
Until and unless someone has walked a mile in his shoes, they cannot fathom the emotions behind such passion.
The driving passion you described is as powerful and addictive as any drug or alcohol. My father died of alcoholism. He tried many times to beat it, but the dragon beat him at the age of 52.
Many times the power that moves the pen is deeply rooted in abuse of one form or another. The detaching of an artist away from “real life” often begins a long time before the pen ever hits the paper.
Even so, such a writer can live an active life, at least on the outside. For what is considered normal (family, job, etc), a writer can function quite well. But, the inner turmoil, the torment, the struggle and the nightmares do not cease. There is peace in writing because it feels like control. To stop writing feels like giving up on life.
Thank you once again, Nathan, for a thought-provoking topic and for revealing your humanness even though you are…an…agent.
Ps…I enjoyed reading your recent adventures to Colorado Springs. I miss Colorado and the Rocky Mountains.
Lucy
hippokrene says
I’m of the opinion that ‘self-destructive’ behaviors are part of a person’s predisposition and have nothing to do with artistic inclination. This person drinks when they’re unhappy, this person over/under eats, this person can’t commit to a relationship, this person works too hard, etc. They could be a writer or actor or computer programmer or carpenter. I don’t believe writers are especially hard hit when it comes to mental illnesses.
I do believe that writing can be very demanding. It does eat up your free time in a way other activities just don’t do and it does require a level of dedication and self-discipline akin to being an athlete. Only, the payoff is much less and you won’t get buff or svelte doing it.
Where each person draws a line is up to them. There are many people who are anti-social by inclination, not because they are ‘sacrificing’ for their art. I have a friend who’s a lawyer and she’s fielded more than a few questions about when/if she’ll be having children. Managing family and career can be a balancing act, and for some, that balancing act isn’t worth it.
While Hollywood bombards us with the idea that true happiness can only be found through family and friends (while simultaneously telling us that our worth is tied into our money, looks, and material goods) there are those who find more contentment and pleasure in their work than in other people.
I think it’s just as easy to ‘destroy’ yourself by letting go of your dreams as it is by chasing them.
Bane of Anubis says
Lucinda, it’s not fathoming the emotions, it’s sympathizing with them (not empathizing) that’s difficult for some. As someone who has an alcoholic father and an alcoholic/bulimic sister, I’ve seen some of the demons that can haunt – it doesn’t mean one has to accept or appreciate them (demons) or find some cathartic resonance in others’ miseries.
allegory19 says
I like the Other Lisa’s post because I’ve thought the same thing. Hard work + dedication = success (i.e. The American Dream). But sadly it doesn’t always work that way, especially with us creative folks.
It’s a struggle, but what other options do we have? Live normal, ordinary lives? I don’t think so.
abc says
RW–I love Cary Tennis! He’s my hero.
As for The Wrestler–really like and greatly moved by it (especially that Mickey Rourke performance). Saw it less as the life of an Artist and more as man’s need to feel important. To shine. In essence, to be loved. Not that he wasn’t an artist. But I felt that what drove him was not pursuit of art, but pursuit of meaning.
PurpleClover says
Lucinda –
I would argue that it is not a passion in that circumstance but an obsession or addiction.
Maybe someone doesn’t fathom the emotions of that type of “passion” because they never walked a mile in his shoes. But whom is walking in their shoes? And understanding the pain or emotions from their perspective? They’re a victim as well. Most times the bigger victim.
Everyone that battles addiction may not choose the same vice. Writing can be an addiction. It is great when someone doesn’t have restrictions that keep them from indulging in a somewhat harmless addiction. But when they have a family to consider, it is still an addiction that is victimizing someone.
PurpleClover says
And that is when they are writing to an extreme (not making time for family). I don’t think everyone has an addiction. I hope that came across the way I intended.
Laurel says
abc:
"the pursuit of meaning"
You nailed it! My favortie passage in "Their Eyes Were Watching God" is the one that says "like all the other tumbling mudballs, Janie had tried to show her shine." (I didn't look that up so if it's not perfect my apologies.)
There are two reasons people are driven to write: there is a recognized truth they are trying to express (Harper Lee, Flannery O'Connor) or an intangible truth they are seeking (Poe, maybe? & Faulkner and again Flannery O'Connor). Restless and probing intelligence seeking an outlet. When the talent meets the truth the world is blessed with a classic. Sometimes just one or the other is present and the chemistry isn't there.
Everything else is just for fun or escape. Just as valid for the writer but nowhere near as valuable for the reader.
Kristi says
Mira and Marilyn –
You both probably know of this book, but “Seth Speaks” by Jane Roberts is a fascinating read about the many lives/many worlds theory. It gives you a lot of food for thought. 🙂
Dara says
Haven’t seen the movie. I think though that the themes can be applied to any sort of profession. I know too many people who often put their career ahead of their family at a cost–mainly in the form of alienation from their children and spouse.
There’s a line between being devoted to your craft/passion and being obsessed and/or possessed by it. Ultimately you end up sacrificing another important aspect of life and look back with regret.
Just my humble opinion 🙂
Anonymous says
It shouldn’t really take THAT much time if you know what you’re doing. 10 hours a week for a year straight = an edited and revised commerically viable novel (if you know what you’re doing).
I think the key is having read enough before you start writing.
MaLanie says
Myra, I get you.
Nathan, I think everyone of us is born with some form of creative expression that wants to be birthed into the world.
But each one of us is given some sort of oppoistion to overcome in order to birth it.
And we have the choice to either overcome or keep fighting the same fight over and over until we get it.
I know for myself its the labels I was given as a child. I was told I was not smart; I flunked most of my test and of course I went out into life believing these lies.(This was before Dyslexia test were conducted in schools.)
I am thirty-seven years old, trying to understand adverbs, adjectives and the whole craft of writing so that I can produce just one beautiful manuscript.
There are times when I want to give up and say to myself, “hey, dummy who do you think you are trying to write a book.” And those are the days I have to make a choice who it is I want to be.
hippokrene says
Anonymous: “It shouldn’t really take THAT much time if you know what you’re doing. 10 hours a week for a year straight = an edited and revised commerically viable novel (if you know what you’re doing).
I think the key is having read enough before you start writing.”It’s not my intent to insult you, but you sound rather ignorant.
You learn to write by writing. You can read hundreds of books before you start writing, but your writing and editing skills will still be crap. Your suggestion is akin to me saying that if a person reads a bunch of books beforehand, they can just pick up material and tools and make a ‘commercially viable’ house within a year.
Yes, we’ve all heard about young novelists who’ve never written a story in their life sitting down and churning out a novel that goes on to make it big. (As in, Eragon) But, those are the exceptions. The average novelist spends years writing before they produce a publishable novel.
Lucinda says
PurpleClover…
I think you expressed it very well.
And I agree with what you said.
What I said may not have been expressed clearly, however.
I understood the question a little differently. I did not mean to say that every writer is obsessed, or not. My intent was to comment about the aspiration and DISTRUCTIVE writing lifestyle. Any lifestyle that is obsessive, even hobbies or watching television programs as if they were an intricate part of real life, texting on cell-phones, etc can contribute to breakdown of family, loss of jobs, and damaged relationships.
While studying Art Appreciation, it was difficult to understand the stories of how some artists forsook family, friends, and jobs for their obsession. We can learn about them, but unless we can get inside their heads, it would be impossible to fully understand.
Hippokrene…. thank you…
Lucy
T. Anne says
At the end of the day passion drives the train. I have to write, like I have to breathe. I don’t let it get in the way of real life or my family although there are times it needs to be quelled. It begs for my attention and I love to give it more than it deserves.
laura says
i just watched ‘the wrestler’ last night. what really struck me about it on a narrative level was the blank space, the moments of not talking, not having dialogue. i was impressed with how the story was largely told that way.
minnesotasnowgem says
Saw the movie-loved it. I think it goes deeper than what you wrote Nathan. Artists, whether writer’s actor’s or any other kind, embody a feeling that can only be fulfilled by that passion. Sure, plenty of people out there find a balance. But to many artists, their ‘genius’ is an unquenchable thirst.
minnesotasnowgem says
Saw the movie-loved it. But I think it goes deeper than that Nathan. Most artists are ‘tortured’ because nothing gives them pleasure the way their ‘passion’ does. Sure, people out there find a balance. But to many artists, their love of what they do is an unquenchable thirst.
Anonymous says
I hope I can go out like Randy did.
Writer from Hell says
“Most people want something more out of life, and when that fails even despite almost insane efforts and doing every single thing possible, it’s one of life’s great tragedies.”
Very beautifully summed up. Wd certainly like to see that movie. Are you its writer’s agent?
Anonymous says
writing a long tale
in the sand
wanting it to be
the writing on the wall
waves might crash on
or sneak in
and wipe it all away
writer remains..
kdrausin says
Hmm,live a life that’s more than ordinary. I used to think this life exhisted when I was a teenager. I took off for LA thinking I was going to become a famous actress. I met two “famous” actors who had graced the big screen. They were two of the unhappiest people I ever met because they looked only to their next big imagined break. That life wasn’t for me.
Now, as a writer, I don’t kid myself that a best selling published book is going to make me any happier than I am today. I write because it is who I am, no suffering. Does this make me less of an artist?
PurpleClover says
Lucinda –
I’m sorry for my confusion.
I have to say in regards to your art appreciation, one artist that comes to mind is Salvador Dali. One of my favorite artists. Now what was he thinking?
Benjamin Pistorius says
kdrausin
I think that makes you more of an artist. When you write because it’s you then that is art.
One thing you said caught my attention though. You said, there’s no suffering, but—call me crazy—I don’t believe that for a minute. I have not talked to many writers who can say there was no suffering involved in their writing. I think we simply count the suffering it takes to write as a worthwhile cost to the pleasure it brings. Because it truly is worth it.
Mystery Robin says
To be completely honest, that doesn’t resonate with me at all. I think it’s our responsibility as human beings to balance our goals and dreams with our responsibilities.
More out of life doesn’t necessarily mean a book at Barnes and Noble – not if your kid doesn’t want to talk to you. More out of life is using the gifts and talents we’ve been given, living up to the responsibilities we’ve either taken on or been handed, and having people in our lives who are better for having known us.
I want to write to contribute to the literary conversation, to communicate, to touch people. But there’s no one’s life I’ll touch more than my daughters’ (or son’s). No one who reads one of my books will be impacted more than my husband will be by my life.
First things first. People before dreams.
Mira says
Anon – I like your poem.
Regarding people who think that if you read enough, you can easily write a best-selling book.
Absolutely true.
Specifically you should read MY book.
It will be entitled: “How to write a best-selling book in 1 year by writing 10 hours a week and reading lots of books.”
Oddly enough, I predict it will take me about 5 hours to write that whole book. But I’m the exception.
Buy my book! Be a writer! It’s easy peasy!
Jen C says
Mira,
I look forward to your posts every day! They make me LOL.
Chuck H. says
I enjoy writing. When the words are coming, there’s just nothing like it. Even when they’re not, I still love it. I thought it was the same for everyone until I had the opportunity to talk to a famous screenwriter and he told me that it was always torture for him. So I asked him why he kept at it and he said because he just had to.
KathyF says
Hmmm… I’ve been seeing a lot of comments lately about not letting writing take over your life, hurt your family, etc. (On other forums, mostly.)
But that doesn’t resonate with me at all. My husband has told me several times (once just last week) that he thinks I should write because he thinks both he and my son would be happier if I were happier. And he thinks it would be a good role model for son to see their mother being happy.
Of course, I don’t ignore them either. And I involve my son in my writing as well. He just told me this morning how fun it was to talk with me about my writing ideas while I walked him to school. (We talk about his stuff on other days.)
When I follow my goals and dreams, that is when things are best for my family. Because they are a significant part of my goals and dreams.
It’s when I follow what society (whatever that is) says I should do that things really fall apart.
KathyF
Word verification: subjecti as in this is very subject to I.
Ann Victor says
Nathan said “…broken, depressed…and basically alone”. Were you talking about The Wrestler or unpubbed writers???
(only kidding!)
This post has changed my mind about seeing the movie.
Marilyn Peake says
Mira said:
“It’s the other worlds where we know how to fly and can move objects with our minds.”
Hehehe. Cool!
Mira says
Jen C and Marilyn,
🙂
I also want to add that I really enjoyed reading and resonated with what people had to say on this thread.
Fire_eyes007 says
I seem to reach the other worlds when I dream. I fly, move objects with my mind, and have even had a fantastic wizards’ duel with the devil, shooting fireballs from my hands and everything (this was years before Harry Potter)!
Unfortunately, I always wake up. Well I guess that IS fortunate, but my hands sometimes twitch with the urge to demonstrate some really nifty tricks.
Nathan Bransford says
Some people are mentioning that they find it easy to balance writing and life, but I guess I don’t know many people who have put in the time it takes to become a published author and haven’t sacrificed something along the way, whether it was waking up at ungodly hours, sacrificing time with friends and family, or building their entire lives around the goal.
It’s just so competitive to make it as an author these days, and it usually takes sacrifice. That’s what this movie was about. He definitely took it too far and it’s a fine line, but I think it resonated with what I’ve seen of the writer’s life.
ryan says
This question doesn’t really pertain to the topic at hand though it might show some of my own obsession with my craft.
I’ve been thinking about getting a website but I have no skill in designing one. If I set up a temp website at a location like proboards.com and kept the website closed to members except for myself would that be acceptable. Mainly what I want to know is if it is a forum sort of website with closed membership would I be able to post material that I have written without having an official copy write. Or, would I be better off waiting until I have my own website?
Writer from Hell says
Mira, comment 8:36 pm.
Thats a good book you are writing. I remember a saying – ‘if you steal from one author, it is plagiarism, if from many, research’.
Yes Mr. Brown sacrifices are many.. just too many and yet we do not know…
after the dusk
before the dawn
words that flow
will ever see
the light of the day
Writer from Hell says
..yet the knoweldge gained, the personal growth, the joy of expression and creation does not go away regardless of the outcome. There is something gained, something v beautiful remains.
Marilyn Peake says
Kristi said:
… “Seth Speaks” by Jane Roberts is a fascinating read about the many lives/many worlds theory. It gives you a lot of food for thought. 🙂
I hadn’t heard about that book, so thanks for mentioning it. I read about a number of different scientific theories regarding time travel, and found the Many-Worlds Theory of Quantum Mechanics fascinating. I also loved reading about time as a fourth dimension, along with the idea that the four dimensions of space-time can be manipulated like fabric, plus the theories behind the idea of a fifth dimension. Lots of fun!
Anonymous says
Hi Nathan..
I also watched The Wrestler this weekend.
But I want to differ from your interpretation of it.
The Wrestler isn’t chasing a dream till the point of ruin; instead, as he tells his daughter, he is just old and broken, a piece of meat. His dreams are over, and he keeps returning to his past, to search for an ephemeral high and a sense of purpose in his drifting, crumbling life.
Jen C says
Nathan Bransford said…
Some people are mentioning that they find it easy to balance writing and life, but I guess I don’t know many people who have put in the time it takes to become a published author and haven’t sacrificed something along the way
It’s pretty easy to balance writing and life if you don’t really have much of a life!
Jen C says
Er, socially, I mean..
Claudette says
I didn’t see the movie, but based on your description, I can relate to Randy the Ram. Maybe not to the point of complete self destruction, but certainly to the point that creating art, and doing something more than the mundane with your life is well worth the sacrifice. When I typed the last sentence of my first novel, I cried like a baby. I had never experienced that type of joy and exhileration on a job. I have made many sacrifices to write, and I’m sure that from the outside in, those sacrifices may seem a bit destructive to some, but from the inside out, it’s just joy.
Pinkie says
I was one of those tortured artists for the longest time. Then, thankfully, a doctor diagnosed my problem as depression, put me on pills and therapy, and I’ve been on the mend ever since. For many, many years, I dulled the pain of undiagnosed depression with alcohol and drugs. I wrote, what I could, but the hole in my spirit was too large to forge any meaningful relationship between creativity and me. Those around me accepted my life as the typical life of the tortured artist. But I refused to give up. I knew there was something inside of me that was worthy of the light, and even in my darkest days, I had a dream of being able to touch people with my art.
It’s a long process to emerge out of the dark vortex of fear. It’s been nearly 15 years now since that doctored diagnosed me and it’s only recently that I feel quite comfortable in my skin. The healing process for me is all about being able to totally trust another human being—and that is my wife, and by extension, my children. For the longest time, 17 years, I related to my wife as a judge. Today, she is my partner. It’s very liberating to trust her with my inner most fears and hopes. I love this new life and from it springs new creativity.
The tortured artist is perhaps no different from any other tortured human being. We all want to be in community. We all want to be connected and be valued for our connection. The artist, perhaps, feels the loss of connection on a more visible, dramatic level—through art. And the artist, perhaps, has implicit permission from the community to display his or her disaffection with community on a more visible, dramatic level.
All I know is that I’m glad I’m not dead, I’m glad I feel connected to family and community, and I’m glad that I can pursue my art. Oh yeah, I’m also glad for the Nathan Bransford community, which can be counted on to always provide a rich and enlightening forum on the human condition.
CPK
Martin says
I thought this was the second best movie last year (The Visitor was phenomenal and should have won an Oscar, but I digress.)
I thought this movie wasn’t so much about fighting and sacrificing for something, as realizing you have to be who you are. He wasn’t nicknamed “The Ram” by accident. Jam an actual ram in a suit or put a hairnet on him and he’s still a ram. People will point and say “Hey. What’s up with the ram in the hairnet?”
I thought this was highlighted even more by Marisa Tomei’s character, who strived to be something she wasn’t. Nice duality there.
I’m often asked why I write. Why do people assume I have a choice?
Justus M. Bowman says
I haven’t seen it, but from what I’ve heard, it’s a deeper movie than the title implies.
starduster says
You summed up my life in the next to last paragraph of your blog in three sentences. My kids say I am good at chasing windmills and impossible dreams. I have not seen that movie, but I pretty darn well live it. I can tell you are a sensitive and intutive person and being a Cancer makes it even more so.
Ben Dutton says
I used to have an incredibly self-destructive personality, a lot of which I channelled into my writing, and I produced a lot of material, a lot of it very bleak. Other people would read it and hand it back after a few chapters with words like: “It’s good that someone is willing to write about this stuff but I sure as hell don’t want to read it.” I went through hell everyday. Writing became my release. I had no real friends, no real contact with the world. Then I started to write and drink and then it was just drinking and no writing. I had to leave where I was, start anew. Now I write everyday, for hours, and have completed two novels in one year. But I have friends now. I work in a shop part time. I’m not self-destructive. The writing has brightened, it’s not tonally bleak, though bleakness is ever-present, and I saw my first novel published and I’m getting positive feedback on the second, and the knowledge that a third novel is completed is helping open more doors still. I think the work you have needs to reach a critical mass for people to take note.
So once I believed and tried to live the myth of the writer as self-destructive. I wanted to die before 30 leaving behind maybe one brilliant novel. I’m 30 in August and don’t think I’ve written that brilliant novel yet, but I’m working towards it. As Zadie Smith wrote, we should fail better. So if I once believed in the self-destructive genius I know believe that it just doesn’t happen, you have to work towards it, and keep working, and then work some more, and if it still doesn’t happen, at least you did the work. Because it is the work that matters. If just one person reads it and is moved you’ve done your job.
Amethyst Greye Alexander says
I saw The Wrestler just the other night and while I definitely award all the talent who made the movie (they did a wonderful job) the movie itself left me feeling almost dirty, likesome sort of ick now covered my skin. I grew up far too close to that sort of thing to be able to look at it objectively.
On the flipside, trying to become a published author may be a bit of gauntlet-running, but writing itself is more like a sanctuary for me. It goes hand-in-hand with how reading helped me escape the brittle world I grew up in.
Now I’m more blessed than I can describe, and the most worrisome thing to plague me is boredom and repetition, but writing is the cure for that as well.
And now I need some coffee, because I’m sure I’m rambling. *grin*
Amethyst