Here’s the thing about book concepts: originality is (somewhat) overrated.
There have been millions of books written in the course of human history. Before there were books there were plays, and before the were plays there were stories told around the campfire, and before there were stories around the campfire there were aliens who implanted DNA in our cave men ancestors that made us tell the same stories again and again. (It’s true, I read it on Wikipedia).
About once a generation a Mary Shelley or H.G. Wells or Tolkien or S.E. Hinton comes along to invent a new genre basically from scratch. Odds are you’re not that person (although if you are, I want to meet you).
All the rest of the mortals on the planet, even our best writers, are working within fairly established genres and tropes.
There were detective novels before George Pelecanos, there were dragon and boy stories before Christopher Paolini, there were wizard school books before J.K. Rowling, there were mistaken guilt stories before Ian Mcwan’s Atonement. What sets these writers apart is a unique take on an established trope. And ultimately that comes down to execution.
What is a unique take on an established trope? It varies from book to book. Sometimes it’s been done before, but never with such beautiful writing. Or maybe it’s been done before, but never for kids. Or maybe it’s been done before, but never funny. Or maybe it’s been done before, but never in combination with something else.
The shorthand for a unique take is that it’s like this, but also like this. It’s X meets X. It’s different, but not too different.
This isn’t because the publishing industry just wants what’s already popular. (Ok, fine, partly it’s because the publishing industry wants what’s already popular — you can “blame” that on readers who finish a book, love it, and want to read something else like it.)
But it’s also because it’s very nearly impossible to be wholly original. Even when new genres are invented they tend to use classic story arcs that have been around for millennia — the coming of age story, the great man with a fatal flaw, the hubris tragedy, the celebrity memoir. When new genres are invented they just place these stories in a new world.
Unless it is truly out there, pretty much everything is a fresh take on an existing trope. It really does need to feel fresh, but that’s not the same as being completely original. The originality is all about how it’s done, not what it’s about.
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Endless Secrets says
Nathan,
Of course I must agree and this is what kills me when I sit down to write because my characters are so alive inside of me, but the story that they are set in can be connected to millions of others.
But I do have a very significant difference that to my knowledge has never been done.
Great Post Nathan!
Anonymous says
Just remember what Einstein said: “The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.”
TecZ aka Dalton C Teczon - Writer says
What you said makes sense. I think it’s that human need to find something familiar to anchor to while you explore something new.
Marilyn Peake says
Mechelle Avey said:
“By the way, Marilyn, I tried to post compliments about your submission to the blog yesterday. For some reason, they never took. I requested your story anon…”
Thank you very much! That means so much to me. I’m struggling to finish a novel by this week or next, and that was like a pep talk for me.
Jen C says
Marilyn, good luck with finishing your latest book! I just downloaded Cannon Fodder from Fictionwise and I’m trying to not get busted reading it at work! So far, it’s excellent and I can’t wait to get home and read the rest.
Kimber An says
“About once a generation a Mary Shelley or H.G. Wells or Tolkien or S.E. Hinton comes along to invent a new genre basically from scratch. Odds are you’re not that person (although if you are, I want to meet you).”
If originality is so overrated, how on earth will you know such a person when you do meet him or her?
Christine H says
Readers don’t want to ponder and decipher long Russian literature type paragraphs. Oh, Marilyn, I do! I do!
How I long for a real book… one that lets me savor the experience of reading it… one that I have to read through a couple of times to get all of the meanings.
I am so tired of neat, concise little info packages. It’s like the entire world has turned into a 10-second commercial.
Isn’t this really a type of cultural ADHD? Aren’t we requiring less of our readers because we think they aren’t willing to give it? And does that not feed the cultural attention deficit even more?
I know this is all hypothetical, and it doesn’t sell books. But I just love books that start with “info dumps.” Please, let me get to know something about the characters and their backgrounds before you start messing with them! Is that too much to ask?
“Emma Woodhouse, handsome, clever and rich, with a comfortable home and a happy disposition, seemed to unite some of the best blessings of existence and had lived nearly twenty-one years in the world with very little to distress or vex her. She was the youngest of two daughters of a most affectionate, indulgent father…” –Emma by Jane Austen
Nathan Bransford says
anon-
Please try again, minus the rude.
Christine H says
It would be an interesting exercise to give a group of writers the concept of a story, then see the different directions they each choose to run with.Awesome, awesome idea!!!!
Martin says
Isn’t that exactly what we’ve been talking about? Different writers taking the SAME idea and putting their own spin on it? You just described mass market publishing! 🙂
Anonymous says
Nathan, my respect for you as an agent and person just grows and grows.
Hope Clark says
It’s called voice. Voice is what sells a story – any story. It’s more how you tell it, not what you tell.
Christine H says
I was just thinking how cool it would be to have all the stories (or a selection of them) published in one volume. It would be such a great teaching tool, for college professors, adult writing classes, and the like.
Christine H says
I mean, short stories, that is. Under 4,000 words.
Vic K says
I might be the one dissenting voice amongst this chorus of agreement…
Bravely then;
As Agent-for-a-day, I focused on original concepts. That’s because I actively look for original ideas when I’m shopping for new books – and when I’m writing too of course – and so I reasoned agents would be on the look out for what readers want.
My argument here, very respectfully Nathan, is that I think you’re confusing plot with concept.
I absolutely agree that there are no new original plots to be found.
I do believe however that there are many original concepts. Just off the top of my head, Naomi Novik’s bestselling Temeraire series delivered an original concept – dragons alive in the Napoleonic era. Robin Hobb’s wizard wood ‘Ship of Magic’ series, Melanie Rawn’s Sunrunners, Anne McCaffery’s ‘Ship who sang’ series, ‘Crystal Singer’ series and ‘Dragons of Pern’ series – those were all original concepts delivered within a plot framework that was not so original.
So two things; first my list is mostly fantasy. (If you missed it, that’s my genre.) Second, I believe original concepts are more important in fantasy than other genres. I venture to say that we fantasy writers and readers search for original ideas and are excited when we find them.
(Which is exactly why Paolini is not a good example for dedicated fantasists. Few to zero original ideas.)
Anyway, my argument here boils down to this; amongst fantasy, (Maybe various other genres too, but I’m prepared to comment only on my own for the moment) there should be a continual striving for original concepts and ideas. The plot doesn’t matter, so long as it is half way interesting, but the delivery of original concepts is important.
Hm. I might stretch to include science fiction. After all, don’t we read futuristic stories to partly get our brain stretched y encountering thoughts, imagery and concepts we’ve never met or considered before?
I agree that occasionally you do find a rip-roaring yarn that doesn’t have a huge amount to offer in the way of original concepts (Name of the Wind say, which had many little brilliant ideas but no breathtakingly large one) but the delivery and writing is so good no one cares and it never impacts on sales.
So I’m in agreement that original concepts arenn’t the only important factor. Sure, maybe they’re not even that high on the list in comparison to other elements. A unique take or a unique voice is just as essential.
I just wouldn’t ever discount original concepts as being overrated in fiction.
Vic K
Mira says
Hmmm.
I ate lunch today. After awhile it dawned on me that you weren't there, Nathan.
Something seems to have gone wrong with my plan here. All the elements were there:
>Told Nathan I had a unique genre idea.
Check.
>Told him I was available to discuss it at lunch.
Check.
>Ate lunch.
Check.
Hmmm. What's missing here? What piece of the equation is missing?
I'm bothered. I'm bewildered. I'd say I was bewitched but that's just silly.
After all, I'm trying to be rational here.
There's something missing. What part of my machiavellian plan has gone awry?
What? What am I missing? What?
Martin says
Actually, years ago at a convention I picked up a little Japanese anthology (translated to English) called “There was a knock”. It was a collection of stories that all started with that sentence. Not exactly the same thing, but it was fascinating to read.
morphine-moniza says
Oh there definietly is no such thing as truly unique fiction. There cannot be. Fiction has to be derivitive because that’s what appeals to readers. We expect certain tropes when we read books, and if our expectations are flouted for no good reason the book feels unsatisfactory.
The tools we have to use to create novels already exist, the best books conceal this fact.
Nathan Bransford says
vic-
That’s a great comment. I think you’re right that in fantasy and probably science fiction there are more wholly original concepts because by nature they’re dealing with the impossible. But I still think it fits into the overall framework of the post because even if they’re still set in very unique worlds they’re often even more dependent upon classical plot tropes to anchor them.
But that’s a great addendum to the post.
Anonymous says
I actually think fantasy and hard SF are less original than most genres. It’s all the same–wizards, dragons, aliens–what’s so original about that? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Anonymous says
How ’bout Brokeback Mountain from the POV of the horses?
Bounce up on it, genre bandwagon riders!
Marilyn Peake says
Jen C,
Wow! Thank you so much!
Christine H says
Dear Anonymous,
Just wait ’til you read my fantasy novel. Then you’ll find out what original is!
(Whenever I stop posting here and get around to finishing it, that is.)
(Yes, Mira, I’m changing my profile pic. Playing around to see which one I like best. Should I be myself, or a sunrise, or something else? Not sure.)
Marilyn Peake says
Christine H,
I’m also a huge fan of Russian novels. I’m guessing that one day someone will write an amazingly thick book with lots of adjectives, adverbs, flowery prose and complicated ideas, and it will be the next hot thing. The Harry Potter books proved that kids like to read, even when popular rumor had it that they didn’t.
Marilyn Peake says
Nathan said:
” … in fantasy and probably science fiction there are more wholly original concepts because by nature they’re dealing with the impossible.”
I love that science fiction has led to real-world scientific inventions. I’ve been doing quite a bit of research into time travel for the science fiction novel I’ve just about completed, and it amazes me that scientists quote both Einstein and science fiction writers in explaining theories they’re developing. Very exciting!
Mira says
Marilyn,
Lol. You could be right about the Russian novel. I can just see it. Then suddenly EVERYONE will write one.
So, back to you Nathan.
I’m trying to figure out where I went wrong here.
Maybe it was that I invited you to lunch. Perhaps that wasn’t appropriate given that we’ve never met and I would have made you pay for it.
Of course you didn’t know I would have made you pay, but it’s possible something about our prior interacts would have led you to intuit it.
Maybe our first meeting should be in a more appropriate venue. A place where two strangers can meet for the first time to have a sedate and productive business discussion.
Breakfast.
Breakfast tomorrow, okay?
Your treat. Just let me know where.
Cool. Breakfast with Nathan. Has a ring to it.
Marilyn Peake says
Mira said:
“Lol. You could be right about the Russian novel. I can just see it. Then suddenly EVERYONE will write one.”
Uh-oh. It could take a whole lot more time to write those kind of tomes. We might have to give up Twitter and changing our blog pics.
Vic K says
Thanks Nathan. : ) And I do agree – many of these novels do rest their original concepts upon classical plot tropes. As a reader and writer, I absolutely don’t have a problem with that so long as the concepts they are delivering within that framework are original.
I know there is plenty of fantasy writing out there that is just a regurgitation of the same ideas and concepts – as Anon 7:06 points out – but I’m not writing it, and (sorry Paolini) I’m not reading it either.
When fantasy is done well, it still takes the world by storm; of the top bestselling books worldwide, (including Tolkien and Rowling amongst others) a surprising amount of them are fantasy novels.
Anyway, I’m getting a little off-topic, but my point was mainly the importance of originality in the genre – the very best writers have it at some level in their work.
(By best, I’m taking the definition decided on in Nathan’s blog some months back when we were discussing the long term impact a book has on society.)
Agreed, Rowling may not have had an original plot with the wizard school but the originality at the execution level of her work is legendary for a reason. You could potentially make a sound argument that those wildly exciting and original concepts are part of the reason her work is so popular.
Vic K
Pattie Garner says
Okay Nathan, so this has nothing to do with your topic–sorry–but that’s why I like you. I want a serious answer. When do you give up? When do you realize you just aren’t going to get an agent and your writing sucks? How do you come to terms with that simple fact?
PurpleClover says
Marilyn –
That was actually what I was hinting towards with the “scifi non-fiction”…lol.
It’s amazing what was scifi only decades ago (Portable phones you say??! YEAH RIGHT! Flying cars?? NO WAY!)
I guess its still an old story with a new spin? sigh.
SciFi definitely deserves its kudos though. It is pushing our society forward.
fatcaster says
Anon 7:07
Brokeback w/horse POV wouldn’t be a new genre. It’s A Stranger Comes to Town plus Someone Takes a Ride–err, Journey (Well, maybe you could call it a genrebender):
Horse #1: “They’re at it again. Again!”
Horse #2: “Yep. Just like rabbits.”
PurpleClover says
Mira – Hmm…you want a contract with Nathan.
I can think of a document with your name on it he might consider signing right now…
😉 (I kid.)
Mira says
Pattie – I’ll answer that one, even though you didn’t ask me.
Never. It’s okay to take a break for awhile. But don’t give up.
William Saroyan had a pile of rejections 30 inches high.
Keep going. Keep on. Keep on. Keep on.
Marilyn, that’s awful. No twitter and blog pictures? We can’t have that. Let’s start an anti-russian novel movement and nip this looming evil in the bud.
Uh, well, we can form the movement after we do our important twitter and blog picture work, of course.
Mira says
Purple Clover
What? What document? A signing contract? A publishing agreement? A breakfast menu?
What? What?
Now I can’t sleep. What does Purple Clover know that I don’t.
What?
Marilyn Peake says
PurpleClover said:
“It’s amazing what was scifi only decades ago (Portable phones you say??! YEAH RIGHT! Flying cars?? NO WAY!)”
I know. Right? I’ve been reading some amazing non-fiction books about time travel by scientists at major universities … and, man, they’ve got me convinced it could happen in our lifetime, even though I can’t really wrap my brain around that as a reality.
PurpleClover says
Marilyn-
I’ve been doing physics research *smacks face* for a MS and if I mention one more iota of theory and/or revelation, my husband and friends are going to abandon me. I think it’s fascinating! But how silly our grandchildren will think us when we tell them it wasn’t invented yet in our time. 😉
My gramma likes to remind me of all the things that did not exist before I came along. I’m sure I’ll be doing the same. 🙂
Mira says
Oh I get it. Purple Clover is just torturing me.
This isn’t the first time she’s done this – tormented poor, innocent Mira.
I’ll tell Nathan all about it at breakfast. I’m sure he’ll be very nice – pat me on the head and tell me I don’t deserve to be treated this way.
So there.
Pffffttttt.
Then we’ll have a very mature, professional discussion about genres.
frau says
Mira, I think he’s getting at the bunny-boiling woman trope? How unimaginative (of him, not you – I’m pretty sure you’d come up with something way better than bunnies, which are so very 80’s).
I think there needs to be a distinction between “original” and “unique”.
Since nothing can ever truly be original, in the sense of coming out of nowhere, what you as writers (THAT’S RIGHT I AM NOT A WRITER YET I AM ON THIS BLOG! UNIVERSE PLOTLINE: IMPLODED) would be striving for is the “unique”.
Combining mojo words and ideas in such a way that they reflect already existing concepts, but in a way that puts them in a new light. Or putting into words new concepts emerging in the real world nobody has recognized or grappled with yet (see modernity, surveillance society).
Yes, the hero gets the girl, but what if the hero is a massively depressed gerbil and the girl actually has a chromosome syndrome?
I also think most basic plots stem from basic social needs. In a culture that prizes individual identity and a linear conception of time, the basic plot will rely heavily on these things.
In a culture that prizes collective might and functions within ideas of circular time, though, the basic plot will still involve love and social redemption but have a very different arc and tropes.
Jil says
Christine H. I so agree with you! Some people do still want the experience of being taken to another place, feeling the breeze, hearing the sounds and savoring the land. It’s about sharing another person’s life. Looking deeply into another’s heart and taking time to feel their emotions. These readers like to have their souls touched or memories stirred so when they have finished reading they sit quietly, not wanting to leave that other world and its characters.
Science fiction seldom makes one cry and the books I remember from when I was a child were the ones that moved me most and even brought me to tears.
Lastly:
Whatever is written will be original to somebody.
Mira says
Um, I almost hate to ask this, but what is a bunny-boiling troupe?
Why is this blog suddenly so unfamiliar and confusing?
Bunny-boiling troupes? Nathan signing unknown contracts?
Have I changed my blog picture so many times that I’ve entered an alternate universe where people speak in words that are oddly familiar, yet strangly unintelligible?
Am I in a different story arc than I thought?
Ooooo.
Maybe I’m in a new genre.
That’s it. The way to create a new genre. I discovered it. Me.
First you change your blog picture a million times. Then reality shifts and ta da! New genre.
Boy. I can’t wait to tell Nathan at breakfast. Now, I actually have a new genre to talk about. I thought I’d have to dodge that question with witty repartee about waffles.
Which isn’t easy. Conventional wisdom may tell you otherwise, but there really is only so much you can say about waffles.
I can go to bed tonight with a clear conscience.
Thank you, my odd but strangly unintelligible friends. You have brought me peace.
Mira says
I don’t know if anyone’s noticed, but I’m practicing writing comedy on Nathan’s blog.
The situations here strike me as hilarious sometimes. The muse swoops in. I also find that the subtle pressure, and the feeling of pushing the envelope doesn’t hurt.
Hope it doesn’t bug anyone.
But writing comedy is hard sometimes. Sometimes it flows like water, other times it gets all clunky.
I think the trick is to not push it. Well, I’m still learning the trick of it.
Anyway, thanks for putting up with my practicing. Thanks especially to Nathan.
Whirlochre says
Most of the tropes have been tackled in an ironic way too.
Newbee says
I could say so much on this topic today. But,…this is what I will say… I do agree with you Nathan. People want something like other famous books out there, but different. I hope to have such a thing. In creating my story, this was exactly my thought process. (Fingers Crossed)…Hopefully hitting the nail on the head.
knight_tour says
This resonated strongly with me. On the writing forum I frequent one cannot post any query or chapter sample with an elf or a dragon in it without people criticizing the work as derivative. I would argue that there are many fantasy lovers, including myself, who love the traditional elements of fantasy, such as trolls, goblins, wizards and so on. In fantasy, at least, I wish they would stop harping on originality so much and focus on the freshness of the story.
Neil says
Wow, did anyone see this (from The Guardian): “Random House…yesterday announced the record-breaking first print run of 6.5 million copies of The Lost Symbol, Dan Brown’s follow-up to The Da Vinci Code…an unprecedented number for a new fiction title.” 6.5 MILLION. Muh-illion. Whatever you want to say about Dan Brown’s writing — and the guy certainly has his detractors — that’s a LOT of books. What I want to hope for out of this is that this print run translates into massive blockbusting sales, and therefore Random House has much more spare cash to spend on new, exciting, emerging authors. At least, that’s what they *should* be doing with the profits. I can dream…
knight_tour says
Sorry to add another comment, but I just saw Vic K’s comments about fantasy readers wanting completely new takes on plots. I agree that many fantasy readers do want that, but I would argue that there are a great many who disagree. When I read the back cover of a fantasy novel and see something like ‘dragons in the age of Napoleon’, my eyes glaze over and I drop it right back on the shelf. To me, that may be ‘original’ but it doesn’t feel authentic to me. I think there are a good number of fantasy lovers who prefer a great new story but set in a traditional, realistic setting. One can complain about an author putting dwarves in mountains as derivative, but I would say that this is just where dwarves live. You can make a story about dwarves living in high rises, and I am sure you would find an audience, but I wouldn’t read it. Different tastes and all that.
Anonymous says
In response to Vic.
An admirable championing of the fantasy genre, but for those of us on the outside looking in, the positives that you site are possibly the very barriers we can’t/won’t overcome.
I consciously swerve any book with an innovative or ‘high’ concept (as I do with films), whether that be Wizard Schools, or dragons in Napoleonic era France.
The best new book I’ve read in the last year could be summed up as ‘a cross-continental family saga’. Nothing there that sounds innovative or even particularly interesting, but I bought ‘The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao’ because I heard it was brilliantly written. And it was. Completely.
Not trying to start an inter-genre war (I respect anyone’s thirst for books) just pointing out that one man’s meat is another man’s poison.
Simon
Kate says
A fascinating post, thanks.
It’s interesting how the same idea can be told in so many different ways. I’ve used the same basic concepts in more than one of my stories and always been surprised at how redically different the end result can be!
Christine H says
I totally agree with knight-tour on the fantasy stuff. If I saw a book about dwarves in high rises, I would put it down, too.
Fantasy has its rules, just as real life does. These rules are not arbitrary, but are the product of hundreds of years of lore and cultural presence. Even Tolkein’s elves – the big, strong, magical people not in the least like Santa’s – were based on Norse mythology.
I am writing fantasy. I never really thought I would. But this story has very real, living characters in it who are the focus of the story. Any magic or mystical stuff is sort of incidental to the plot.
What makes fantasy work as a genre is the way it takes us out of ourselves and the real world we have to deal with every day, and puts the distilled concepts of truth, loyalty, love, honor, etc. into a setting in which they can be more easily understood.
I have no elves or dwarves. I invented my own race, and their own language. I don’t know if that’s original enough to count as something totally different, but I’m hoping the story itself will move my readers into feeling they were a part of my world for a little while.
Aden fath! Have Faith!
Vic K says
Responding to knight_tour and Simon;
Thanks guys, for your comments. It’s great to be opening a wider discussion on the subject of fantasy.
Knight_tour, it’s interesting to hear you think there is a market out there for readers who prefer the same-old same-old. Clearly you’re right, or Paolini wouldn’t be able to make a sale. I’d love to see some solid statistics on this, but I’ve heard that fantasy readers are split rather interestingly across a gender bias line; male readers apparently prefer the basic archetypes provided by Tolkien, Terry Brooks and the like – elves, dwarves, wizards and so on. Female readers are apparently looking for more innovative concepts.
I’d like to think there is room for all styles of fantasy on the shelf, but I’m beginning to think that might not be so as publishers tighten their belts. I have to hope that their direction will lie in choosing more interesting and concept-driven works of originality going forward. If only because I am certain there are wonderful ideas out there I haven’t read yet that I’m going to love… and I’d rather be falling in love with something new than re-reading the same old stuff written slightly differently.
For the record, I would rather not write than have a elf, wizard, troll or orc in my work. I’m all for making up new and fresh monsters myself.
The point you are making is along the lines of what Nathan is saying, but let me ask you this; if you have no new worlds or creatures or concepts, and we’ve more or less agreed there are only seven basic storylines… how do you make your work stand out from the crowd on a fantasy shelf?
(I’m not saying it can’t be done, but surely it is just as difficult thinking up a new way to say the same old stuff as it is to think up new stuff altogether?)
Simon, I absolutely agree one man’s meat is another man’s poison. However, I read widely and across numerous genres. I hope you do too, because some of the loveliest writing out there is sitting on the fantasy shelves.
I’d like to think every writer reads widely and respectfully. There’s beautiful writing to be found in fantasy, just as there is in literary classics and erotic romance novels.
The reason I write fantasy is because I enjoy the freedom it gives me to say what I want to say about life, living and the world, but wrapped up inside another world. The egg of truth hidden inside the egg of the fantastic, as it were. Sometimes ‘high’ concepts can be a way of delivering a rather interesting truth.
I don’t think I (or any other writer) are less or more because we’ve chosen to write in the field of genre fiction.
Vic K