I read all 200+ comments of the Agentfail thread on BookEnds last night, and… wow. Sooo much anger out there. To be sure there are some constructive comments in there, and I always like those, but for the most part it unleashed a vast fount of angst. So much you could bottle it up and sell it to those crazy people who fight in mesh cages.
The biggest, most common complaint is about agents who don’t respond to queries or have a “we’ll respond if interested” policy.
Now, again, this doesn’t affect me personally. My policy is to respond to all queries, usually within 24 hours, and I almost always respond to partials within two weeks and fulls within a month. If you send me a personalized query that follows my blog suggestions and it’s not for me I’ll send you a personalized rejection. I always respond to my clients within 24 hours and I try to turn around comments on my client’s manuscripts within a week.
I certainly HOPE that my query and response policies make you want to work with me and that you’ll query me instead of someone who doesn’t respond. I’m building my list and I want new clients.
But if an agent has a no-response policy, chances are they aren’t actively looking to build their list. Or they have enough on their plate already. They aren’t looking to open the floodgates. And they’re not subhuman for having this policy. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: writing a manuscript does not buy you a prospective agent’s time.
If you don’t like their policy, by all means, don’t query them if you don’t want to. Just…. don’t get mad about it. It’s like being mad at oxygen.
I understand that the publishing process can be frustrating and that the people who really ranted in that post are in the minority, and that these responses were all requested. But I just wonder if we could all get along and stay constructive instead of turning agents into pinatas.
Steve Fuller says
Comparing agents to oxygen…nice!
Nathan Bransford says
scott-
Yeah, a uniform system for signaling openness to queries and response policies would be nice. Luckily the Internet is helping that along, but there isn’t a go-to place.
Fawn Neun says
Nathan, I think the sour tone of #agentfail can be attributed to following directly on the heels of #queryfail. In my capacity as an editor, I wouldn't dream of exposing and snarking about some of the submissions I get in a public forum. I rarely even do it to my co-editors. I think all writers learned from #queryfail is that agents are laughing at them behind their backs. It's just…unnecessary and demoralizing.
The sad fact is, the agents & editors likely to read all those comments aren't the ones that are causing the frustration and anger. We're conscientious and caring of people's feelings. We want to encourage them, rather than make them play little gatekeeper games or serve as blog fodder.
I think that if it had been held, oh, say, next month, you'd have gotten the intelligent exchange of ideas for improvement that you were looking for.
As you said, you didn't participate in #queryfail. I've never queried you myself, but I understand that you're one of the "good guys" who's on top of their game and professional.
It does seem that there's a lot of anger and frustration, and Jessica provided a safe place to vent it all. Maybe this will be a fresh start.
I, for one, will be going through my slush pile with a bit more, er, speed.
Mira says
Nathan – we just we talking about how the publishing industry is struggling.
Because of that, I really need to disagree with something you said.
Agents really do need the slush pile.
They need it ALOT.
Taking talent mostly from referrals is a terrible business practice. The industry shoots itself in the foot, no actually, shoots itself in the head, when it relegates slush piles to ‘unnecessary.’
That’s the kind of insider in-breeding that is so problematic in the industry, and the reason why it’s struggling.
Talent is talent. A smart agent will look under rocks, in small random boxes, and even in the slush pile trying to find it.
Jaime Theler says
I’m not particularly thrilled with the no response = no policy, but I’m not foaming at the mouth about it. It doesn’t stop me from looking at those agents. I was a little surprised at the anger, too. I think there just might be a lot of anger in general floating around right now.
ryan field says
I think the point you made about not getting mad at the no-response policy is important. Getting mad isn’t productive.
A.L. Davroe says
People suggest you get published in small literary journals and magazines before moving on to a book. I’m beginning to think that advise is because getting generic replies from ten magazines for a short story is a lot easier than an agent ignoring your novel. It helps build a tolerance that I think many authors sometimes need…that’s not even going near the reality check.
Ella says
After going through the whole thread, there were some legitimate gripes. I’ve never been to a conference or pitch session. I had no idea it was like celebrity roast w/o the celeb, or apparently, good natured ribbing. For people to come out in tears after an agent ripped them a new one via their query, that’s just wrong. I missed the comments which were deleted, so I don’t know how nasty some were.
I shared my experience on the blog without naming names. I posted it under my name. I think Jessica did great job. She mentioned Absolute Write is the place to go, plus there’s Preditors and Editors for researching agents before subbing. Rude behavior, period, is not acceptable, not from the butcher, baker, candlestick maker, agent or author. The twitter thing doesn’t make one bit of difference to me. I recently joined. What did bother me was queryfail. I think that was the day I joined. If the authors knew what they were getting into is one thing. If it was used more as a teaching tool(which I believe it was originally intended) rather than name calling, I wouldn’t have a problem. I’ve been at the receiving end of one of the QF participants. It’s not a good feeling to be laughed at when you’re supposedly dealing with a professional. There are, thank goodness, more professionals than divas. Now I’m off to query Nathan. 😉
April 2, 2009 11:46 AM
Jo says
As far as I’m concerned, you can’t dislike an agent because you’re not a good fit. It goes both ways. If an agent passes on my work, then they’re simply not the right agent for me. It’s ok. I can wait for someone who truly loves my work and who I can get along with in the long term. I’m looking at my career in terms of years so I’ve got time. Thanks Nathan- for everything you do.
Liz says
Ha ha! Being mad at oxygen! Thank you for injecting some humour and common sense. If a particular agent is so awful why are you still using them? Find another one and move on. There are good, decent people out there as well.
Stephanie Faris says
I’m guessing this is backlash? Here’s the thing…agents have all the power. So writers feel powerless. We spend our lives jumping through hoops to make agents/publishers happy. We put what you want in the subject line of our e-mail, paste exactly what you say, don’t do prologues, don’t write about the entertainment industry because “those books don’t sell,” etc., etc., and then a day comes when someone says, hey, here’s a site where you can complain. And those writers go hog wild. That’s my guess.
I personally don’t get upset if an agency has that policy. I don’t get upset if I get a form rejection. It’s part of it. I really don’t even care if I hear back or not until the day comes when an agent comes back and says, “I want to see more of your work.” The trick to not obsessing over this little stuff? Don’t sit around worrying about it. Start your next book. Absorb yourself in it. Send it to a different agent. By the time you realize agent number one is too busy to be bothered with you, you’ve already got other things out there.
Anyway, when people are given free reign to complain, complain they will. It’s like unleashing the beast within…
Patricia says
I am tired of all this queryfail, agentfail negativity.
Tweet #agentinspire and let’s start over, this time thanking agents who demonstrate kindness, civility, and professional behavior.
L.C. Gant says
Kudos to you for sticking it out to read all 200+ comments! My brain started to hurt after about 50 😛
As you said, some of the comments really were constructive and respectful, but they were few and far between. And none of them applied to you, which is why we love you in the first place!
There are ways to give constructive criticism and still be kind. You show us that everyday. Hopefully some of those bitter writers can learn from your example, and maybe then we can put some salve on the wounds that have formed on both sides.
Anonymous says
Nathan,
You realize you just keep opening yourself up for a bigger slush pile by being nice to us crazies.
To those who refused to read agent fail:
My take on agentfail less than 5% of those people went overboard on complaints. So just like the agents to like to be catergorized all the same, you shouldn’t say the whole blog was a failure (not refering to you, Nathan. You did not imply that). I am pretty sure only one person, although he/she was trying to make it look like many, was trying to drag names out, and a few succumbed.Learn from mistakes, but don’t humiliate someone for making them. I think that is a lesson everyone needs to learn.
Ella,
The ones deleted were the ones that specified names, and they had specific complaints. I am glad Jessica deleted those. It would have been better just to remove the names, but I don’t know how blogging works, maybe it’s not possible to edit.
Brian Spaeth says
So many people think agents exist purely to reject them – it’s bizarre. I’m not sure how the business plan on that would work.
Agents want to LOVE your work. They would dream of someone querying them with something that they totally fall in love with.
Marilyn Peake says
I haven’t looked at the Agentfail thread yet. Thanks for supplying the link. I don’t plan on participating, as my angst level is pretty low today after winning three book awards and having a short story published yesterday. But I’d like to post a comment here, as I found your blog post today an important one.
There’s so much stress at all levels of the publishing field today, everyone seems to be blowing off steam. Queryfail allowed agents to blow off steam and chuckle about writers, so I suppose Agentfail opened the floodgates for writers’ expression of very strong feelings accumulated over years of frustration and pain.
I’d like to share two stories I heard from writers yesterday. A small press writer, so talented the sheer beauty of his writing practically brings tears to my eyes, who works himself to the bone writing and editing, almost died from neglecting his health. He had a very close call. Another author who was published years ago by a big publishing house confided in me how much angst she has over her current struggles to get new manuscripts published by more than small press.
I cannot tell you how many times I’ve heard within the past couple of years that a small press author, editor or publisher died after neglecting their health, had back surgery, experienced debilitating migraine headaches that made them temporarily blind, or went bankrupt. I appreciate, Nathan, that you seem to have a deep respect for authors and have developed a respectful policy for answering query letters. It’s not easy being a writer. To suffer for one’s art is often not just an expression, but a physical reality.
spwriter says
A number of commenters here and over at the Agentfail Bar & Grill have stated, screamed or apologetically whispered, "I'm ne'er gonna query an agent who has one o' those 'no response means no' policies."
Sounds like a perfectly fine plan of attack because, yes, there are plenty of bad agents who hold to such a policy. But there are also plenty of good ones, and even some excellent ones. To toss all "no response means no" agents into the same (cess)pool is shortsighted at best and evidence of a writer's laziness at worst.
Having said that, I think it is well within reason to expect an agent with a "no response means no" policy to acknowledge the initial receipt of a query and to have clear expectations on how long one must wait before the angst of uncertainty becomes the certainty of angst.
Here's a suggested policy statement for that acknowledgment email:
“If you don’t hear from me within 60 days, it means we’re not a match made in heaven. Please don’t curse my children or make up a mean hashtag about me in Twitter. Hug a St. Bernard puppy instead. And best wishes as you pursue representation with another agent who will undoubtedly discover the brilliance in your book that I somehow missed and subsequently turn it into a bestseller, prompting me to briefly calculate just how much money I could have earned before relaxing into a smile of acceptance that I made exactly the right decision when my ‘no’ became the right agent’s ‘yes.'”
Sun Up says
Well I won’t get rejected…sooo…have a big ol’ slice of my Narcissistic Pie.
I’m kidding of course.
But Nathan had me thinking about food with the whole ‘Agent pinata’ comment–I was like ‘mmm agent candy.’
Seriously though, I never even heard of that until I read another blog I’m suscribed to.
Things like that really don’t bother me. I don’t query until I’ve done enough research to make me feel comfortable enough with submitting my work–and even when I chose to query, I’ll make sure that I have a concise understanding of what’s expected of me as an author.
It makes everything easier in the long run.
As a side note: it would be awesome if I could find an agent made out of candy.
Miriam S.Forster says
I have a fundamental issue with the idea that agents have all the power. In my opinion, working with an editor/agent is like having a job.
For example, my day job says I can’t have painted fingernails or visible tattoos. They can say that, they’re the ones running the business. To me, submission guidelines are like dress code,part of the job.
That said, why would you give a complete stranger–someone you’ve gotten one email from—the power to make you as angry as many of the agentfail people were?
flednew says
I’m afraid “just don’t query them” is a little disingenuous. We know we’re beggars, there’s not much to choose from, and once you start eliminating agents for anything but genre the pool gets depressingly small.
Elana Roth says
Thanks for the post, Nathan. Given the comments here, and those on our blog today as well, (yes, shameless blog plug: https://johnsonlitagency.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/agentfail-and-heartache/), I’m right there with you on the need for some more levelheadedness, realistic expectations, and optimism. Big deep breath and…onward.
~Elana
Anonymous says
I haven’t read the other comments here yet, so I might be echoing others’ posts, but Nathan, the Bookends blog ASKED people to bitch about their agents, and anyonymously at that, it’s not like they stormed the blog and took it over.
Sometimes I feel, that because you are a “good” agent that you assume other agents are like you. Dear God, trust me when I say they are not. Some of them, sad though it is, actually do deserve the bitching spewed out on that blog.
Signing as Anon for obvious reasons.
Anonymous says
People are just bitter. Don’t take it personally. You’re the man, Nathan.
MzMannerz says
Nathan, I think your query process works well.
Mara Wolfe says
It is so nice to know that there are agents out there like you who really do make an effort in communicating towards all potential clients who query. Thanks
Dana says
Now.. I’ve never sent a query myself, not had the pleasure of being rejected by anyone, except Scott Clemmer in 8th grade… but someday I’ll get over that. However, I read about three comments at #agentfail before I had to stop. Seriously. Get over it. These people are busy; uber busy. They can’t hold your hand and guide you through your disappointment, or terrible novel or whatever. Just deal. It reminds me of being a teacher… I was working 80 hour weeks and so when a parent asked if I could stay after school for an hour to help their kid, I said no. I know that a lot of them were mad about this, and thought that I didn’t care. But you know what? I did care, much more than they imagined. If you aren’t taking care of yourself you sure can’t help others. I bet that most of those #agentfail commenters would be equally made by the responses they’d get if the agent had just read all of everyone’s manuscript and was tired and cranky enough to tell them what they really think.
So yeah, if you don’t like what they’re doing, the don’t query them. Does that suck a bit? Yes, but it’s the same as not shopping somewhere whose business practices you don’t agree with or not being friends with someone who is negative all the time. It’s hard, but if it matters to you, you’ll make it work.
Now… I may eat my words in a few months when I’ve amassed some rejections, but for now…
Anonymous says
I skimmed through the posts at the Agentfail link, hope to have time to read them later. On first glance, there are many writers defending and praising agents. On Queryfail day, I don’t remember too many flattering comments about good queries. Just sayin’.
Anonymous says
I don’t think a lot of the people who posted on that thread have a clue about just how many things the average agent has to deal with in a day. They know how hard it was for them to finish their manuscript, but they don’t realize that that despite the difficulty, thousands upon thousands of other people are finishing theirs and sending them out, too.
In the interest of full disclosure, I’ll say that I am prejudiced–Jessica Faust, who started that thread, is my agent. I did have bad experiences with one or two others, but overall my experiences with agents has been positive, mostly because I’ve only submitted to those I researched and felt strongly about.
Despite having an agent, I still read agent blogs (obviously, since I am here). They’re great spots to find out about industry stuff, to hear about who’s buying what, to learn. But I’ve definitely cut back since my pre-agented days, and that means cutting out the ones that focus more on personal than professional stuff. Does that mean I don’t think agents should have personal blogs? Nope. And I am certainly not going to get all angry about an agent having a personal life and blogging about it if s/he wants! I just don’t feel compelled to read it.
I just wonder about people who think an agent spends too much time blogging and twittering, but submits to them anyway. It seems…self-defeating. If they’re spending so much time on those things that you worry about getting a reply, do you think they’ll be good at selling your book? And why would you want someone to represent you if you didn’t think they were professional?
Beatriz Kim says
Wow! I’m kind of new to the process and these responses surprised me a little.
I’m not very knowledgeable in this area. However, I wonder if finding an agent is a similar process to finding a job? If I don’t hear a response, I would assume they aren’t interested or they already found someone else?
Isn’t this just a business? It might be that the position is not a good fit for both parties or the position is already full.
Is there a need to be so upset at a particular agent? Isn’t it just part of the process that one might need to accept as a writer?
If this is your dream, don’t let a “no response” get you frustrated. Look for someone else. After all, some really wonderful books were rejected by one agent, only to be a bestseller in another agent’s hands! Certainly you want to find an agent who really believes in you. Right?
Just keep writing and editing! For myself, I just can’t stop writing. Can you?
Thanks Nathan for writing your perspective. It’s good to know the other side of things! I’m learning so much! When I’m ready, I will definitely send you a query.
Have a beautiful day everyone!
Anonymous says
Disappointment is only a risk of Hope, and that risk proportionate to expectation. Hope deferred makes the heart sick. A Realistic Perspective shouldn’t choke Hope, but it can act as a governor, so the RPM’s stay below the red zone and the engine can run a Long, Long time. Celebrate:
1.Times at bat. Particular Experience is Nature’s psychotropic Reward.
2.Birthdays – Nothing like a Flag that’s still there.
3.Trusted friends and family who Love you enough to tell you the Truth
4.A Relentless pursuit of the right audience for your qualified, yet objective Art
Litgirl01 says
Nathan…you have proven yourself to be a man of integrity. This is why we read your blog and post every day! 🙂
Belynda says
Wow. #Queryfail + #Agentfail = #Patiencefail.
People are SO stressed out over this phenomenon! I must admit, I’m pretty stressed out over queries. What do I want? For an agent to fall over clutching my query letter and/or manuscript to their chest in something close religious ecstasy while dialing me to offer representation with a free hand.. What do I expect? Maybe a polite “no thanks”, perhaps radio silence. I’m okay with either. I still love what I do.
While I actually thought #queryfail was funny (in a “hope it’s not me on the dartboard some day soon” way) I’m not willing to hop into a flamewar about agents/editors or their particular business practices.
Now, granted this state of agent/writer zen could emanate from my two years as a practicing real estate agent (lit agents bear a passing resemblance in that both have no boss, no free time, and must smile and nod when people make unfounded generalizations about what they do or think).
What it boils down to is, we’re all plugging along doing the best we can every day, right? So why get all caught up in the fuss…
I’ll join the rest in saying kudos to you, Nathan, for keeping above the fray and not getting too frustrated over it! You’ll definitely see a query letter float across your desk from me in the near future!
Anonymous says
I think that part of the frustration about agents not respecting writers comes from the fact that the writers that do research, do write good queries, and do have viable books are often lumped in with the clueless masses.
People that don’t research and don’t know the ropes are given the same “form rejects 6 months after the fact,” and “requested partials unread after 6 months” as if they WERE stupid. And that’s upsetting.
On PubRants today, K. Nelson’s post is about why you need to finish a MS before querying and posters are actually arguing with her — saying it’s not fair. Well, none of us (readers of this blog) would do/think that, and it’s painful sometimes to feel we are lumped in with those that are that green, that new to the business.
M. Dunham says
Agents are people, too. Also, I can’t believe people would want to badmouth a potential future ally.
Lupina says
I’m not going to read Agentfail. If I want to read negative rants I have plenty of perpetually pessimistic relatives who are only to happy to supply their thoughts.
The only agents I don’t query (within my genre) are those who do not accept e-mail queries. I figure they are so hopelessly behind the times that I’m not sure I’d want them to represent me.
Lupina says
Oops I meant “too happy,” not “to happy.”
Kristin Laughtin says
I read part of that thread before my head started to hurt. (Never having queried or worked with an agent, I had nothing to contribute–and hopefully I never will.) To be fair, though, a number of people did ask for an #agentawesome thread in the future as well. 🙂
While I can see why a “no response means no” policy could be frustrating to writers (we all want to believe agents are just behind on work and really do want to accept ours, even if it’s months down the line), if the agent clearly states they work that way…you just have to deal with it.
Jan says
If you send me a personalized query that follows my blog suggestions I’ll send you a personalized rejection.
Personalized rejection?
I certainly HOPE that my query and response policies make you want to work with me and that you’ll query me instead of someone who doesn’t respond. I’m building my list and I want new clients.
Sorry, I couldn’t help but copy and paste your comment Nathan. The promise of a personal rejection if we follow your blog suggestions, cracked me up.
Jan..:)
Elaine 'still writing' Smith says
When no response means no interest
Maybe we aspiring writers should supply a response form with tick boxes – perhaps on the back of the SAE:
No this is badly written
No this is a bad idea
No I’m on my way out
No I’m just writing my own book
No I have a headache
Yes? No – just teasing!
Anything to make common politeness easier
Anonymous says
Personally, I’m more than a little amused that many of the people complaining about the “bitterness” and “anger” in agentfail had no problem whatsoever in bashing the hell out of authors–without their permission–while pretending it was “educational.”
Please.
Nathan, I think what you said initially is instructive: you don’t do these things. Many agents don’t do these things. Rather than defending the ones who do, why not recognize that your own professional behavior is something which should be emulated, rather than being some odd but charming quirk?
And as for the “get over it” business–this has gotten very, very old. No one forced these people to be agents. At the point when they decided to start taking in queries, and mocking those who don’t fulfill every point of every sub-rule on their particular lists of rules (lists which, by the way, change radically from agent to agent), they do have a basic responsibility to act professionally in turn to authors. Why authors have decided to invest agents with god-like authority, feeling the need to apologize for even daring to submit work on which the agent will theoretically make money, is beyond me. But having done this, why authors are then supposed to endure being punched in the mouth repeatedly and “get over it,” “get a thicker skin,” etc. is even more incomprehensible. Instead of dismissing the anger out of hand, taking a long look at what is causing it might be helpful for all concerned.
Nathan Bransford says
anon-
I defend the other agents who have “no response means no” policies because I might be one of them someday. It takes an enormous amount of time to respond to queries. If I have a sudden uptick in my work responsibilities or I am no longer looking to build my list, responding to queries is naturally the first thing to eliminate simply in order to stay afloat.
Now, obviously I would still try to deal with everyone with courtesy and respect, but I honestly don’t think writers should have such high expectations for query responses.
Anonymous says
Maybe, but I still think you’re selling yourself short, Nathan. I’m with people who think #agentNOfail should be the next step, and you should be top of the list, IMO.
Anonymous says
Also: I don’t think “getting a response at all” is a high expectation. In no other business would no response of any kind be acceptable.
Anonymous says
I think 90% of those that posted on agent fail just wanted an automated response so that they knew their query hadn’t got lost in cyperspace. That is just a matter of turning on an auto reply; kind of like an automated office response. Easy Peasy, even the techno-dip I am can do that. Personalization not necessary on query, but maybe it would be good on requested material.
Different Anon than prev
Horserider says
People always find something to complain about. 😉 It’s in our nature. Let them complain; it’s not going to get them an agent any faster. In fact, they should probably stop their complaining and turn their energy into working on their query and manuscript.
I can’t wait to query you Bransford. 🙂 You’re #1 on my list.
Nathan Bransford says
anon-
I appreciate the kind words, but most businesses don’t respond to all job applicants, for instance. I doubt film or music agents respond to everyone either.
And it’s more than a simple courtesy. It adds up. If you figure that I spend 30 seconds responding to each query, considering that I’m on track for 15,000+ queries, that translates to 125 hours a year. That’s a lot.
Nathan Bransford says
It’s also not just a matter of turning on auto-reply. Either you have to establish a single dedicated e-mail address for queries only (which gets confusing quickly) or everyone is getting your auto-reply, including the non-query people you’re working with.
Jen says
Great post, Nathan. I don’t think people realize how much work agents actualy do. 🙂
Anonymous says
I’ve queried a lot of agents over the years and I have no complaints. For the most part, they all responded–and when they didn’t and I really was interested in them, I sent a follow up snail mail with an SAE. Of course there were some no responders. But come on people–consider that no one owes you anything. If you have something of merit you will hear from them. But, I do think it is just plain rude not to fire out a form rejection if someone takes the time to query you. That is just good business sense and it should be part of the job.
Anonymous says
Nathan,
It doesn’t have to be a dedicated to just queries. It could be I recieved your email response.
And to the job reply, if they asked I gave a response.