I have to admit that I was surprised by some of the responses to last week’s discussion about queries. There’s so much angst out there as authors struggle to find agents that some writers adopt an ends-justify-the-means mindset and think there’s something wrong the entire process if their queries don’t work.
But as I said in the comments section of Thursday’s post, every successful debut book should be viewed on the order of a minor miracle. It’s like throwing a manuscript across a river of paper-eating snakes and crocodiles and hoping that all the pages reach the other side. Success is hard and rare, and there is an incredible array of obstacles along the way.
Success is not the default, and success does not come easily.
And yet so many aspiring authors don’t approach the business in this fashion. They expect success. They feel that they’ve earned success simply by completing a novel they think is good. And they feel that if they are not easily finding success something is wrong.
Then you start hearing things like agents don’t know what they’re doing, the query process is stupid, the publishing industry is going down the tubes because they won’t publish MY book, etc. etc.
The system is not perfect, but it’s also not broken. In fact it’s working precisely as it should: It’s winnowing tens of thousands of projects down to the few that are published. There are far more novels out there than can realistically be sold to publishers. Far, far, far, far more. To paraphrase Sean Lindsay, there are too many writers and not enough readers. Getting published is not supposed to be easy.
If there were a more effective system of winnowing down thousands of submissions than referrals and query letters I’d love love love nothing more than to find it and use it (and Jennifer Jackson agrees). But in order to decide if I’m interested in taking a look at a manuscript I need to know two things: what the book is about and whether the author can write well. And I need to know those things as quickly as possible because I have a million other things to do. That’s precisely the point and function of a query letter. If the query did not exist, God would have to invent it.
It’s not fun to be winnowed. But don’t blame the winnowers. Just keep at it. And while you’re at it, try and enjoy the process. Life’s too short.
Please respect the system. It’s there for a reason.
Anonymous says
I’ve got to jump in here.
Quote: “…I have had submitted novels that I thought should have sold that didn’t sell (and sure, I didn’t write them, but that doesn’t make it much of an easier pill to swallow when you feel the author is counting on you)…”
But that is simply not the same thing because you can pitch ten different client novels in a week — an author can only write one a year.
When my last novel was rejected, my agent (a so-called A list agent) ignored my request to discuss why it didn’t sell, and what I could do better/different the next time. Months later, finally getting around to return my emails, she stated she was too busy with her “best-selling” clients to represent me anymore.
Trust me, I’m not the only one. Writers don’t talk alot about these injustices because they are concerned with not burning bridges. So when you say “respect the system” that is hard to stomach, because it is this very system that so often does not respect us.
I hope that it doesn’t sound like I’m complaining — I’ve long ago accepted that this is the way this business is — but, I’m sorry, that doesn’t make it right.
Karen Cantwell says
As a writer navigating the dimly lit path of this process we call publishing, I have never understood or agreed with those who want to natter on about agents or the querying process. They (as far as I have observed) love reading and love authors and are just doing their job in finding those they want to represent. In fact if we were to walk in the shoes of an agent for just one day, I’m sure we’d all be singing a different tune! I’ll stick with writing, thank you very much.
Madison says
You can think I’m crazy, but I enjoy the query process. I enjoy getting rejection letters. Why? Because at least it’s proof that I’m trying. But, seriously, even if my stories don’t get published EVER, I’ve written things that both me and my friends enjoy, and that has it’s own beautiful reward. 😀
Nathan Bransford says
anon-
At the same time, while an author has a day job (hopefully), an agent is living and dying by what they are and aren’t selling. Your novel doesn’t sell and your hopes are dashed, which, yeah, sucks, but you still have a roof over your head. An agent doesn’t sell books and we’re out of a job that we’ve devoted years and years of hard work to.
Look, it’s not easy for anyone in this business, which is my entire point. We can get into an umbrage and oppression war, or we can just recognize that this is a tough business and that we love it despite the frustration it causes us. It’s tough sledding all around. We still willingly go down the mountain. Might as well say “whee.”
Anonymous says
‘Kay… Whee!
Nathan Bransford says
Look out! A tree!!
Haha
Melissa says
Quote:
“In this day and age, coudln’t there be something new invented to make it a cohesive, level playing field?”
It is a cohesive level playing field. Everyone has a chance to play. Although there are some celebrities who get published on name value, the vast, vast, vast majority of manuscripts published go through the same don’t-know-the-writer-just-judging-the-manuscript-and-concept evaluation as everyone else.
What isn’t level is the skill level of the applicants — and that aspect shouldn’t be level. If all people who submit manuscripts are put into a pot and judged “equally,” the chances of getting published are incredibly small. But when you start weeding out the people who wrote utter dreck, the likelihood of being published (within that pool) starts increasing. If you are a really talented writer with a polished manscript, your chances of getting published are significantly higher than most people’s. If the pool is 10,000 aplicants, your likelihood is NOT 1 in 10K.
Of course “really talented writer with a polished manuscript” is the rub. We all think we’re talented. We all think we’re written a great manuscript. And only the agents and publishers can ACTUALLY see our competition.
The real lesson is that writers need to be humble enough to accept that we should always be honing and improving our craft, and our early efforts are likely subpar compared to much of the competition, no matter what your friends, parents, and teachers tell you.
The agents are unbiased, ebyond wanting to find a manuscript that they are passion about that they believe they can sell.
Anonymous says
So, what’s being discussed now? Who has it worse, writers or agents?
Curious.
Can I throw postal workers in the fray? Think of all the useless correspondence they have to hump back and forth between the two parties aforementioned.
Jo-Anne Vandermeulen says
Hi Nathan;
I have chosen your blog among my ten to consistently read. I enjoy reading your topics and absorbing your perspectives. Thanks for posting.
I have two completed manuscripts and have been querying for an agent for the past two years. During this time, I have grown and needed to improve in all areas of writing. I look at querying an agent as part of the apprenticeship that needs to take place before publishing. An aspiring author must be ready. Unfortunately, a new author often feels they are ready instantaneously. I often compare this situation to a dog you tie to a leash when walking in heavy traffic. Sure that dog feels like it should roam free, but the master knows that if he/she lets it go, it will get run over.
I have learned to be patient and to use my time wisely, advancing in learning more and more. When it does come time for an agent to accepts my submission, I know I’ll be ready.
Jo-Anne Vandermeulen
Professional Support Network for Writers
Prolific Writer of Romantic Fiction
https://gr5mom2@wordpress.com
Scott says
Wow, over a hundred comments already. Makes me want to go back to hawking screenplays. Different animal, I guess, and the pitches come with looser proseworthy expectations.
Nathan, I think it would be interesting to learn how many letters/ideas are “close” to earning partial requests, or is it like the screenwriting industry where I hear 99.9% of them are too far below par to even be considered. If nothing else, it could keep the odds in some kind of perspective.
All that said, I’ve been working on my latest query on and off for an entire month, and so far I’ve needed every minute!
Nancy Coffelt says
Madison, if you’re crazy to like getting rejection letters, then I’m in the same club with you. I’ve learned TONS from some of my favorites and I’ve kept all of them. After sticking with this mad, mad world since 1990 those precious scraps of correspondence are spilling out of my ragged accordion file. And to me they’re a part of my history. Sure, they don’t speak to the published part of my history, but like you said, they’re testament to me putting myself out there.
It’s time to get a new file. I’m still working so that means inevitably – more rejections heading my way.
Rachel says
Wow. After reading some of the comments, I think it’s time for us all to remember that there are a LOT worse things in life than never getting published. Anyone who has time to write, not matter how little, is one of the lucky few in the world. The vast majority of the world has far bigger things to worry about than not getting a book published. Lighten up and be thankful for what you have. And thanks, Nathan, for the great blog today.
Jill Wheeler says
I like the word “winnow.” It makes the whole process kinda sound fun.
ryan field says
Wish I could say something wise. But I can’t. It is what it is.
But Nathan wrote one line in his post that I’ve heard so many times from other agents and editors: “Just keep at it.” And what better advice is there?
CindaChima says
I think we all need to remember that we are all on the same side here. We want to create and sell wonderful books that will at least allow us to make a living. A legitimate agent is in it with you. He doesn’t make money until you make money. He has to dig through a lot of–um–very bad prose to find something publishable.
I am a published novelist, and I am amazed every day to be here. Hard work and talent are necessary but not sufficient for success. It took me five years to find an agent and sell my first novel. My agent was an assistant at a major agency.
Trust me, your agents and editors are not the enemy. We might as well blame other writers who don’t take the time to read the guidelines, perfect their manuscripts and target their queries. Their submission packages are clogging up the slush pile making it difficult for that dream agent to find your finely-crafted work.
Anonymous says
Instead of pushing my story forward, I just spent half an hour reading everyone’s comments.
The thread reminds me that my feelings are layered, universal, and fleeting. (I suck; I should learn how to knit.) The point in my case is to keep at it, at least until I finish this novel.
One sentiment I kept hoping to hear was this:
Not being published would feel more palatable if the general public, i.e. everyone I know, understood that even fantastic books fail to sell. This reality that Nathan described doesn’t make me bitter about the industry. It does make me want to tattoo his post on my forehead.
BarbS. says
“Keep at it.”
Yes. And keep at it not because you want to make a name for yourself or to make tons of money. Keep at it because it’s something that can bring you closer to your husband, your wife, your family, your friends. Because it makes them laugh, or cry, or sit in suspense as they wonder what will happen next, or if a favorite character will live or die or find that elusive “happily ever after.”
Above all, keep at it because you love it, and because that love of stories can inspire the people closest to you to go to the bookstores and discover stories that other people are telling.
Your friends and family will have to pay to read THOSE stories. But the ones you wrote yourself will always be special. Not because they’re free reads.
Because they’re yours.
Shelia says
For some reason I have always thought that even a well written novel might have a hard time getting published. It just never occurred to me to blame others if I never get published. I’m interested in knowing how this works with short fiction since that’s what I write. Is it like March Madness on the moon? Any thoughts?
Anonymous says
Okay you’ve convinced me.
If I am nuts enough to keep writing.
Get a day job.
Anonymous says
Like I wasn’t depressed enough after the economy and the Holidays…
Melissa says
Quote:
“If I am nuts enough to keep writing.
Get a day job.”
Well, erm… yeah. There is literally a handful of writers who can make enough money writing fiction to fully support themselves (much less to support a family). Even novelists writing series with “guaranteed” book deals aren’t necessarily making enough to live on.
Go into your local bookstore, pick a genre, and then count the number of series on the shelves. Now figure out how many of those authors are actually “known.” It’s probably a pretty fair bet that those who aren’t are making steady money, but not enough to quit the day job unless they are either:
1. Getting help from a spouse or other income, or
2. Are single, supporting only themselves, and living a modest standard of living.
Doesn’t mean they aren’t successful writers. Just means writing fiction rarely pays the bills.
Damyanti says
“…. every successful debut book should be viewed on the order of a minor miracle. It’s like throwing a manuscript across a river of paper-eating snakes and crocodiles and hoping that all the pages reach the other side. Success is hard and rare, and there is an incredible array of obstacles along the way”.
Absolutely.
In their enthusiasm for their own work and their impatience for publication, most writers tend to forget all of this.
If we writers spent more time bettering our writing before trying to get it published, life would be easier for us, the agents, editors, and everyone else in the publishing process.
Steve Fuller says
Man, writers are nuts.
Life is tough. If you haven’t realized that by now, it’s probably because you got a trophy in little league for “participation.”
If Nathan’s blog makes you not want to write anymore, then you might want to reconsider your decision to write in the first place.
Sinclair Lewis once said, “It is impossible to discourage the real writers – they don’t give a damn what you say, they’re going to write.”
Nathan, thanks for your willingness to maintain this blog and respond to comments. Not many agents would do that. It has been very helpful to get your perspective.
Laura D says
Some see a gold coin and turn it over to find the tarnish. I’m exactly opposite, so here’s something for aspiring authors to consider. The harder the battle; the sweeter the reward.
Hone the craft…become one of the best. No one got something for nothing.
Newbee says
I haven’t been in this long enough to be bitter. I don’t know if that’s a positive or a negative point for sure. But, I will ask you this. As a very new person in this insane world of writers, is it better to be someone who can write the most amazing paragraph…or someone who has come up with one hell of a story? I’m guessing both? It doesn’t matter how great the story is if nobody reads it. Would you say I’m correct Nathan? The more I do my research on both my book and about writing/selling a book I have come to this conclusion.
It’s all about understanding what you are up against and how you can find your niche in the market. Both in finding an agent and creating a riveting story millions of people will want to read. For me, a college drop-out/Mom, It’s all a creative way to market yourself, as well as the book. I spent a good part of yesterday “shopping” for agents. Does this person like the same books I like? What kinds of books do they sell and/or like reading? Would they be interested in the themes of my book if I looked at other projects they have taken on? Maybe I am examining this like a MIT student with “the Hubble”? I don’t know? But the way I look at it…It couldn’t hurt!
Anonymous says
Man, writers are nuts.
You’re damn right! WEE 🙂
Anonymous says
anon above again:
Nathan, we still love you although we’re giving you a lot of lip.
This publishing thing; it’s a fun, scary, frustrating, rewarding ride.
WEE again 🙂
other lisa says
Wow! Um…wow.
So, anybody watch “The Bachelor”? I feel dirty.
Newbee says
I guess what I’m worried about is a dangling participle looking more like a dangling “partial nipple”. For me it’s all the same. They both are just too embarrassing for words.
Nathan Bransford says
anon-
Not so appropriate. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, and I’m happy to have you dissent from the CV, but within the realm of respectability.
Nathan Bransford says
other lisa-
I’m glad I didn’t play the Bachelor drinking game tonight. Normally you drink every time someone says “amazing.” I don’t know if I would have been able to work the rest of the week.
other lisa says
Nathan, as an alternate, you could do “Awesome!” But that could get pretty ugly too.
Nathan Bransford says
other lisa-
Usually the triggers are:
– “amazing”
– “journey” (double for “incredible journey”)
– any reference to a fairy tale
– “the right/wrong reasons”
It might be fatal if “awesome” were included.
And kids, don’t try this at home.
Nathan Bransford says
Oh! “Connection” is the other one.
Honestly, I swear I don’t watch this show.
other lisa says
Maybe you could make up a kind of Bingo…
mumblemoose says
As the general manager for a big box book retailer in the bay area, I have to reference Lee from the very beginning of this thread.
He gave a really good synopsis of what happens every day at a book store. I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to politely tell self published authors that their book doesn’t meet the basic requirements to find a spot on my shelves.
These folks tend to really really believe in their books, and they really really don’t want to be told no. I have been yelled and cursed at for failing to order their book.
I sympathize with these authors and the effort that they’ve put into their work, but I always tell them that they need to submit their book to an agent in order to achieve a publishing platform that will entitle them space on a retail shelf. Invariably, these passionate and enthusiastic authors discredit the process for rejecting their work.
The system does work. As someone who has spent three years writing a manuscript only to see my query attempts rejected by every agent I’ve sent it to, I truly hurt when self published authors tell me that I have no interest in supporting local authors because I refuse to carry their book. I have to turn down self published authors on an almost daily basis.
I have tremendous respect for every author that has sweat and cried over their work and sent it to an agent with nothing more than a prayer and the hope that their writing will jump off the page and be accepted, ultimately achieving publication, because I have done the same.
When those authors can walk into a store and see the result of their effort on the shelf, it is meaningful. It shows that they have created something that multiple levels of screening have deemed to be of quality work. These books will not all be best sellers. In all likelihood, few to none of them will. But each and every author can hold their head high and know that they’ve achieved the goal to which so many aspire.
This is the standard that I wish to uphold, and this is the goal that I aspire to attain with my writing. I could have my book on the shelf tomorrow, because it’s my shelf. I will never do that, though, because I respect the process and won’t cheapen the victory.
Follow the system. Achieving the goal the right way is worth avoiding shortcuts.
mkcbunny says
This is a great argument for the value of similes:
“It’s like throwing a manuscript across a river of paper-eating snakes and crocodiles and hoping that all the pages reach the other side.”
As a first-time novelist, I understand the challenges of getting my book any traction whatsoever and recognize that there are expectations of quality and professionalism in every level of my efforts toward publication. That includes the query level. If I make it past that, I will be delighted. If I don’t, then there’s something wrong with my query.
Emily Cross says
Hey Nathan, i’m a first time poster, long time lurker of your blog, and always find the posts excellent – especially this one, as i actually can pitch in with an opinion.
I’m an ‘aspiring author’ but i hope i don’t have the ‘debut novelist syndrome’ which seems to be everywhere.
I think the problem with alot of unpublished writers is that publishing/Literary/editor agencies etc. are not viewed as a business. I used to think like many writers that ‘I’ will make it etc. due to my ‘amazing’ talent and nothing else but i know now that i could write the most amazing book in the world, but if it isn’t marketable = isn’t sellable = unpublishable
I am now only starting my first book – but i’ve done my research (which i hope will help me). I know that apart from talent and decent writing, agents and publishers want a marketable book and ‘author’ – who has an established platform etc. and a business like attitude to what their doing.
I guess aspiring authors view ‘their work’ like their baby etc. but perhaps viewing it as a product your trying to sell would be better? So if/when I’m trying to sell my product to an agent, i’m going to sell it with an amazing query/pitch. Thats step 1. and theres a hundred more after this – and like a business once/if you get to the top of the game you still have to try and stay there.
It shocks me sometimes how some writers don’t have a clue of whats going on or what happens in the publishing process- its not like this information isn’t available.
Many go in completely blind, making silly mistakes, that five mins on the internet would solve.
There is this belief as well that once you;ve sold the product to a publisher, your part is finished. in my mind, the work really starts then – publicity, marketing etc. And all this has to be done while working in your real job too, cause i doubt $12,500 (5,000 hardcopies at 10% loyalties – not sure if these stats are exact) will not buy me that mansion by the sea.
So IMO, the system isn’t really broken, its just a business strategy to invest money in best possible product.
that being said easy for me to preach when i havent dipped my toe in the shark invested waters with my ‘masterpiece’. Business attitude is easier said than done though when the rejection letters come.
Sorry for the ventful rank, this has been festering for a while.
Catalina says
I’m beginning to think that writing the story is the easy part. I do have to say though, as much as I hate it, the publishing process is good for any writer. It’s a growing pain. How bad do you want this? I think it makes the victory that much sweeter. And, reading this blog makes the effort that much more fun.
James Buchanan says
(I posted the following on another site, but it seems to fit well here too)
I think one of the things that gets lost on a lot of writers, especially new ones, but also experienced writers, is how much of this business comes down to two factors–subjectivity and establishing a connection with an editor or agent.
By subjectivity I mean that you may have written a very good book or have a great idea, but it has to mate with a likeminded editor or agent.
As to connections, there are two meanings. The first is the traditional concept of having a personal relationship or knowing someone with a personal relationship with an editor or agent to get you in the front door. The other is a little less tangible and comes in the query letter where you establish your project and who you are as a writer. By being able to hit the right notes–a shared MFA program, strong publishing history, or some other means to connect you with the person–you can build credibility and attract a little attention.
When building a connection is such a tenuous process and there is such a huge degree of subjectivity involved you have to enter into this business under the assumption that you likely won’t get published. Therefore, you have to want to write because you love writing and you love the process of trying to get published.
Best,
James Buchanan
http://www.orchardwriting.com
Stephanie says
Very well put.
And very depressing.
I’m going to go eat chocolate now.
Richard Mabry says
Nathan,
What a memorable phrase: “success is not the default position.” I’ve used it as the basis for my own post–with attribution and thanks, of course.
Thanks for sharing.
sex scenes at starbucks says
…It just never occurred to me to blame others if I never get published. I’m interested in knowing how this works with short fiction since that’s what I write. Is it like March Madness on the moon? Any thoughts?
I’ve been an editor with a spec fic zine for three years. I can give you a few stats based on our magazine and then some reasons why stories don’t get picked.
We had around 300 stories submitted for this issue and three editors reading. We hope to buy 6 stories.
Quality is improving all the time. I’d guess 60% of my stories are competently written. So let’s say your story is one of those. Then we get down to story itself: we’ve seen that plot before or the ending doesn’t quite work, it doesn’t fit our guidelines, or a myriad of other reasons. Sometimes I love a story, but I have to reject it because I know it won’t get past the other editors. “It’s not right for our magazine” is actually a valid reason.
We saved 30 stories to vote on. This is the cream–most of them are quite good. However, again, we know each others’ tastes and in ranking them, we take that into consideration. Often there are three-four stories that just rise to the top of each editor’s list. We know all of us are probably going to like them. That leaves 2-3 slots left.
So it comes down to issue balance. One time we had FOUR great werewolf stories. Obviously we could only pick one. So three great stories got rejected.
So it’s partially subjective, but it’s also whether we think it requires a ton of work (we’re all pressed for time), whether it’s appealing to our readership (salable and marketable, in agent terms), whether it fits with the issue (re: agent list), and whether we can get it past the other editors (an agent knowing editors’ needs.)
The subjective part comes down to being excited about something and putting my name behind it. I spend a lot of effort on these stories and the last thing I want a reader to think is “Why did they pick THAT one?”
Oh, and trust me, editors and agents don’t go in looking to reject a bunch of stuff. We are optimists at heart who love to find that story with a spark!
Sorry so long. Hope it helps.
Haste yee back ;-) says
After reading all… well, most of these comments, I went out and bought a NEW PUPPIE!!!!
Pick ‘im up Jan 24, one day after my birthday. I smile eveytime I think about him. Yup, a hunting dog! (German short-haired pointer)
Yeah,
Haste yee back 😉
Scott says
I loved sex scenes post just above, as it really does hammer home what editors are up against. This bit:
“Sometimes I love a story, but I have to reject it because I know it won’t get past the other editors. “It’s not right for our magazine” is actually a valid reason.”
…is especially interesting because, in a perfect world, the rejection letter you get would say the first part instead of the second part. The Werewolf example is the same. “Sorry, we thought your story was great but we already have four going in” is so much better and reassuring than “Not right for us, cheers”.
But to quote a phrase I hear so much lately that I’m considering titling a new story after it, ” it is what it is”.
Acceptance, it turns out, is also a two-way street.
Marc Vun Kannon says
Writing a query and writing a novel are entirely separate skills. I don’t see why anyone would think that just because a query is less than stellar the book is too. Especially with all the conflicting advice about queries out there. When I write my novel I know what I want to write and I write it. When I write the query I have to guess what someone else wants me to write and try to write that, then I have to assume from a lack of response that it wasn’t right and then do it again, only now I can’t send the new query to the same agent, since I’ve already sent him one. There’s just too many uncontrollable factors. If we could at least re-query the same agents (and feedback would be nice too) the whole process would be easier.
bookchildworld says
I’m both a writer and bookseller and I just want to say: what Lee said. That scenario is horribly real.
Alexa says
I came a bit late to this whole debate but it has been really interesting. I haven’t even thought about queries yet just finishing but I’ll keep all this in mind when I do. I’ll also keep enjoying the process 🙂
Anonymous says
I leave this post and its comments with one horrible revelation:
OtherLisa, you watch THE BACHELOR?
Talk about shattered illusions…
Excellent post, btw, albeit realistically depressing.
DF
Stephen Moegling says
As a writer who recently landed an agent, I can say that the most stressful part of the novel writing process for me was the query letter. I’m still too close to it to know why for sure, although I’d like to figure this out for my own peace of mind. I think, in some ways, it was because I had to sell myself and my story. This can be very overwhelming to writers, to anyone, for that matter. I also think that young writers have to convince themselves to get the guts and patience to write a novel; then, being successful in doing this, having to then start at the bottom of the mountain all over again to land an agent, can make the wiring in a writer’s brain screwy. Sorry, agents, for all of us who took our angst out on you. It’s not your fault, it’s ours. Please forgive us. And then represent us.