I’m back! Happy ’09, everyone. May all of you win the lottery.
Longtime readers may have noted that in an effort to make this blog more… well, professional, I have cut back on the amount of virtual ink I devote to reality television. Yes, I know. I was attacked by a bout of seriousness. I’m sure I fooled everyone.
But there are times when men are shaped by momentous events that leave us powerless to the whims of fate, and swift, forceful action is required as a result. Such an epochal event is occurring this evening. And that is the premiere of The Bachelor.
NOT JUST ANY BACHELOR. You see, this year’s Bach is Jason, perhaps the most achingly earnest Bachelor in the history of Bachelors. Not only did Jason so wholeheartedly believe in the premise of finding true love on the Bachelorette that even host Chris Harrison had to have been confused, he is also proud father of young Ty, and thus the first single dad Bach.
So many questions. Will Ty give out the roses to the bachelorettes? Will Chris Harrison sit down with Ty for serious interviews? Will the bachelorettes try to bribe Ty with cool toys? Will people feel guilty for deriving so much guilty entertainment at the expense of Ty’s lifetime of therapy bills?
It will be…. something.
Meanwhile:
Call me crazy, but I have been getting stuck on sentences that begin with the word “that.” Not just as in, “That was cool,” I mean actual complex sentences. As in:
That I am asking you this question should tell you that I develop strange aversions from from to time.
or
That he had the smelliest breath in the general vicinity was not in doubt.
Is this a conversational trope I just haven’t heard? Is this some sort of Southern hemisphere thing? Are the kids beginning their sentences with the word “That” and I’m just hopelessly uncool? Can it be done well?
Please give me a ruling.
I voted against. That should tell you something.
Hee. Get it? Get it?
Never mind. 🙂
Um… ew, just ew. I can barely even make it through those sentences without getting irritated.
That the use of “that” to begin a sentence is annoying goes without saying, even though many of us are saying that.
That the only things worse than “that” is like all those people who start every sentence with “like” is even more annoying.
It all depends on context.
I suppose if I had to read 100 queries in one sitting with more than a few with such sentences, I’d develop an aversion to them as well.
I don’t have time for reality shows because I’m too busy with, um, reality. However, I think it’s awesome the Bachelor is a single dad. There are so many wonderful single parents who deserve life partners of their very own.
Besides, children can spot fakes a mile away.
Give that kid a chance and he’ll wipe out every gold digger in that whole flock of cluckers.
Only a woman who truly cares about the Bachelor AND the child would be left standing. If there is one at all.
I think we have finally dismantled the word “like” in general teen age lingo. So what about “had, had” as the glue at the joint of a re-connected statement?
“If I had had enough time, I would have had another slice of pie”.
I’m not voting. There are sometimes stylistic reasons for beginning a complex sentence with “that”, but most of the time, it’s just excess wordiness.
So it shouldn’t be banned, just used with extreme caution.
That was a great post. (Sometimes you just gotta use it!)
As for the Bachelor – Call me old fashion, but I have a hard time believing people find “true love” on a reality TV show. And yes, therapy bills await young Ty. THAT is no lie. 🙂
I’ve heard my niece, on more than one occasion, carry a whole cell-phone conversation with brassy usage of the word “that.”
Example:
I can’t believe that; that really happened? That’s so weird. Who told you that? No. No! That’s awesome. I SO want to do that. We’re going to do that. We HAVE to do that. I’ve never even heard of that…
It never seems to end.
Alright, I voted against it. Though I don’t mind it horribly, it’s still rather . . . annoying to me. Just something about it.
And welcome back!
Some sentences can get away with a “that” as the first word. I couldn’t read a whole book written that way, but one or two sentences won’t kill me.
Grrr!
Sentences that begin with “that” annoy me to the point that I usually skip over them. They fall into the same category as “to be” verbs for me.
“That” at the beginning of the sentence is a British thing; I’ve seen it mostly in 19th C British novels, particulary of the witty social satire variety – Jane Austen and her brand. It works/ed well in that genre and context but in most modern-day novels it seems artificial and outdated. I can’t say it’s something I hate however, and as long as it’s used sparingly it can be an effective way to vary sentence construction.
“That”, like “was” or “just”, is among the most commonly overused words. It’s weak writing. If you can get rid of it, then cut it. Use it as little as you possibly can.
Most of the time you can cut “that” out. In most cases it does nothing. We can all agree then to cut that out.
I can’t help thinking that most people’s aversion to sentences which begin with “That” bespeaks a fear of the full breadth of the English language. Too many writers feel that have to only write in the vernacular, that their writing should reflect how people actually speak. I think there is a place for that, especially in dialogue, but how about some adventures in style. I must reiterate what someone said earlier because it is the only correct response. There are styles to which “That” is suited. I can imagine it in the current novel I am reading, John Crowley’s “Little, Big” — which, by the way, is one of the most enjoyable books I’ve ever read.
*shudder* Those make my head hurt. I know that I do start some of my own sentences with “that”, though, so I don’t know how much I can say…It was quite hard to even write these sentences without it, now that I’m thinking about it.
ManiacScribbler =^..^=
There’s probably a way to use a “that” sentence without it seeming convoluted and pretentious. I just can’t think of what that way is.
This blog is an amazing source for brilliant, indispensable information that I use time and again, and, Nathan, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for all I’ve learned. But (you’re cringing on that one, aren’t you?) upon occasion, it can be extremely annoying. First, characters are only allowed to have “said” something, because anything else is just bad writing. So, eagar to be a good writer, I edited out, with a vengeance, every sneered, jeered, smirked and ejaculated I could find. Then I’m to treat dialog like paprika and sprinkle it sparingly. Ever heard of Hungarian goulash? Because you need about a cup-worth’s for that one. And now “that” is a four letter word. The last time I read a book that I couldn’t put down, I really didn’t notice what word each sentence began with or if anybody was talking too much or smirking or sneering for all they was worth. I only noticed that I couldn’t put it down. Like you’ve often said, if it works, it works, and the inconsequential what have yous don’t matter. That said, if a stray “that” is all that’s standing between me and publication, I’m going to throw caution to the wind and leave all my poor maligned thats right where they are.
STS
anon-
If you notice, I never come down too firmly on any particular “rule.” That’s because there are none, except if it works it works.
However, I think sometimes when beginners write… they just write. They don’t think about their words and phrases — which ones might be overused, which ones might be cliches, and thus the words I end up seeing aren’t carefully chosen.
All these annoying posts are meant to do is to make people take another look. If their “That” is well-chosen or their non-said tag is apt, then great! There are no rules. All I aim to do with these posts is to prompt that second look. Trust me, sometimes it’s needed.
Wow, reading the comments just felt like a high school grammar class all over again, except I used the words ‘like,totally’ a lot back then. Luckily I use the strikethrough key on words like ‘that’. Generally, I’m not opposed so long as its done well.
As far as the Bachelor, mercy. Start the therapy fund..just sayin.
Glad to see your love of reality TV has not died. That I can’t wait to hear your comments on The City is undoubtedly true.
The ‘said’ thing – is like the ‘adverb/adjective’ thing (dontcha hate it when people use ‘thing’ all the time?)
Meaning, if you are relying on “sneered” “cheered” “jeered” etc, maybe your dialogue isn’t doing the work it should – a character’s emotions/mental state should be (can be?) implicit in their words, as well as the setting, the plot, what they’re wearing, etc, most of the time…and if you’ve got to pile on the adverbs/adjectives, maybe you’re not choosing your verbs/nouns carefully enough…and then again, if you’re more careful about the rhythm of your language, that in and of itself will convey the emotion without having to resort to speech descriptors (?) and adverbs/adjectives…
I just reread what I wrote and can’t even make sense of it…
Cough syrup, iron pills, more ABBA…it’s hard to figure out what this Monday evening requires…
If we’re using “that” as a conjuction, as you have in all of your examples in the post, then no, I don’t like it. It’s awkward and passive.
However, if we’re using “that” as a pronoun – e.g. “That’s not fair” or “That’s not the way I would do it” or “That night he slept surprisingly well” – then I have no problem with it.
That said, one should be careful with the word “that” at all times. It’s a dangerously overused word.
Hi Professor Tarr,
I read your tale of being at Disney, and went to your blog, and maybe I’m missing something, but what was the book in question?
Sorry, a bit befuddled at the moment,
Wanda B.
That’s enough of that, if popular opinion has its way!
Nathan, may we have a virtual party WHEN you win your Bloggy?
That I could not resist asking that is possibly a potential no-brainer…
Wordver: dighth. How very Anglo Saxonith!
“That” certainly isn’t used in my part of the South, North Carolina, as part of common speech.
But it does have a King James Bible rhetorical element that would be comfortable from the pulpit or the law court.
“That he owned a Colt 45, that he stated on numerous occasions his hatred of John, that he had no alibi during the time of the murder, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, proves that he could have murdered John.”
This use of “that” IS grammatically correct; it’s just awkward – and passive – when used to start a sentence.
You could phrase your two examples this way:
First ex: “I develop strange aversions from from to time; hence my question.”
and …
“No doubt he had the smelliest breath in the general vicinity.”
-Cam
As a non-retired English teacher, I’d have to agree with Becky way up at the top of the comments that “That …” is a perfectly grammatical way to begin a sentence.
However, I think it’s not the question of grammatical correctness that has raised Nathan’s hackles, but the head-tilt-inspiring awkwardness of the construction.
While it’s true that it can be used well, I’m voting to encourage people at least to think before subjecting the rest of us to such funkiness of phrasing. After all, isn’t the goal to keep your reader reading?
Keep fighting the fight, Nathan! We’re with you!
Sorry, my third example used “that” as an adjective, not a pronoun. But my conclusion still stands. For me, starting with “that” as conjuction = bad; starting with “that” as pronoun or adjective = not inherently a problem.
My problem with that is not when it starts a sentence. For example, I have no problem with this:
“I was so distracted reading queries, I missed The Bachelor,” Nathan cried.
“That sucks,” said Anita.
However, I do not like this use of that:
“I was so distracted reading queries, that I missed the Bachelor,” Nathan cried.
So, you don’t care much for noun clauses used as subjects of a sentence if that noun clause begins with the word “that” used as a relative pronoun?
I don’t mind ONCE IN A WHILE.
It’d drive me nuts to read something that had every third sentence beginning that way.
Starting a sentence with “That” may be technically correct in that it’s a noun clause, but “The window was broken by Bob” is also technically correct. That doesn’t stop “Bob broke the window” from being a better idea in ninety-nine cases out of every hundred.
Personally, I want my writing to be invisible. Not in the invisible ink sense, but in the sense that when people read something I’ve written, I want them to be paying attention to what I’ve written, not how I’ve written it. That would be difficult if I didn’t try to keep a firm grasp on good grammar and usage, but not everything that’s correct is clear, and not everything that’s clear is correct. Clarity trumps correctness.
Verbal acrobatics are well and neat when that’s what you’re up to, but novels are more like marathons. The person doing backflips down the course probably isn’t going to take home the gold.
I voted yes, but then I read the comments and started cringing every time I saw one of those “that” sentences.
I think the issue here is with bad writing decisions rather than sentences beginning with “that.” Good writing is sensitive to the purpose of the work. Throw a sentence with that type of structure into one of Janet Evanovich’s novels and it won’t work because it’s too heavy for the idea of the piece. It also doesn’t work in a query letter because query letters should be short, simple, and informative. However, put it into a doctoral thesis on religion and it works just fine.
Welcome back, Nathan! Happy New Year to you as well.
Even if it is grammatically acceptable to begin a sentence with the word “that,” I find it irritating beyond words. Kind of like scraping one’s fingernails across a blackboard. I think it should be avoided for the most part, along with other weird phrases like “sorta kinda” and “a whole ‘nother.”
Regarding this season of the Bachelor, I’m partly intrigued and partly disturbed by the idea of Ty being involved. I’m not sure what’s worse–the idea that the producers would use him as a gimmick for the show or that his dad would allow it to happen. Still, I have to admit, it DOES look like it will make for good TV…
It gives me the heebie-jeebies that single parents of little children would go on reality dating shows. Dating with small children is difficult enough without televising the ordeal.
Also, beginning a sentence with “that” is almost always pretentious enough to make me put down whatever I was reading.
I try to eliminate the word “that” from my writing altogether (speeches, reports, and the occasional creative piece). The word frequently begins spoken sentences, and so I wouldn’t quibble with it starting a sentence in dialogue.
So is everybody doing votes now? This is the third vote on a literary blog in as many days.
I voted in approval of “that,” but now that I read a few, I’m hearing Yoda’s voice in my head reading them. That can’t be good.
Okay, here’s my example that might not make everyone cringe. Or if it does, it’s another clue why I remain agentless and unpublished.
Lucy drummed her fingers on the table. Three days without a phone call was unacceptable. That he might not be that into her never entered her thoughts. The guy was just a jerk.
And that is exactly why I go through a whole edit looking for things like that.
That people really still watch all this reality TV surprises me. Not to mention, men are addicted to it. Frightening! So sorry Nathan… I don’t find it very interesting. I find real life so much more exciting. Call me “old fashioned” I guess. Maybe it’s because there just aren’t many good writers out there in TV? It’s all those people writing those dam books isn’t it? That’s where the money is…(Hahaha….)
No…on the “that” question. It sounds ridiculous.
The word That cannot readily begin a complex statement. Most times, it doesn’t work.
I too was told by an English professor to limit the use of “that” everywhere, as much as possible, to improve any and all writing. It really isn’t needed 95% of the time it’s used.
The new thing bugging me is how TV news reporters are beginning a sentence or statement with a proper noun like, “Julie Smithers; she just won the race!” or “The Redskins. They won’t be going to the playoffs.”
I just finished watching THE BACHELOR tonight and I loved it. I particularly laughed the most when the wedding planner lamented that she would continue to plan OTHER folks happy endings and not her own.
His son isn’t going to be on it much Professor. I remember it being said briefly that his brother is going to help look after TY and the sweetie wouldn’t be on the tellie much. As it should be.
I really find using ‘that’ as awkward. I think it’s got a clunkiness to it that makes starting something with it, what you can liken to a boat weight.
Oh, I’m flashing back to my college linguistics courses here. I remember doing an entire unit devoted to sentences beginning with ‘that’.
‘That’ can be used to begin a noun clause, regardless of where that clause is in the sentence. Thus, your examples are technically correct, but whether they are examples of good writing is a matter of personal taste. They don’t bother me too much, although they tend to sound rather formal or old-fashioned, and can seem awkward if not handled well.
That you are a literary agent who watches shows like The Bachelor is of concern to me. That I, also, am a literary agent, and that I spent two hours walking on the treadmill tonight just so I could guiltlessly watch The Bachelor, is of even more concern. And that I can’t help it, I love that freakin’ show, well, there is no hope, is there?
Welcome back!!! I missed you!
I was a little disappointed with the lack of voting options there.
While I don’t start many a sentence with “that,” I don’t really have a problem with it, either.
I think its overuse is due to people trying to sound smart or literary, and that just makes it sound ridiculous, but really, would it hurt anyone if an occassional “that” graced the beginning of a sentence?
Welcome back!!! I missed you!
I was a little disappointed with the lack of voting options there.
While I don’t start many a sentence with “that,” I don’t really have a problem with it, either.
I think its overuse is due to people trying to sound smart or literary, and that just makes it sound ridiculous, but really, would it hurt anyone if an occassional “that” graced the beginning of a sentence?
“Can I Get a Ruling: Beginning a Sentence With “That”?”
Sounds like cleveritis to me. That’s where the author’s desire to impress hobbles their ability to entertain.
And what sort of word ver is iscupti? Sounds like a gargled sneeze.
“That” as a beginning is grammatically legal, but the structure that follows can be delightfully conversational or cringingly stilted.
That (i.e., using “That” at the beginning of a complex sentence) is hopelessly uncool (to readers), not you.