One of the great things about having a blog is that you can answer questions no one has asked and pontificate on things you are underqualified to even have an opinion about. This is one of those days where I get to talk from the seat of my pants about some ideas I’ve been tossing around at random hours that I will probably never have an opportunity to implement. Who doesn’t love the Internet?
So, I ask myself, how would you run a creative writing program?
Thanks for asking, Nathan. Here’s what I would do, in bullet points:
1) Decide upon the goal of the program
Is the goal of my creative writing program a) to give life to short stories, verily an art form unto itself, but which the reading public does not generally pay attention to unless they’re taking a creative writing class and/or trying to place something with the New Yorker? Are universities bastions of arts, poetry, short stories, and classes like Syllogism in Synechdotal Passages in Semi-ironic Transcendental 1890s Irish Poetry, which, though abstract, are important to the advancement of human thought, arts, and culture?
Or is the goal of my creative writing program b) to teach students how to advance their writing careers, as in, write works for which they might have a gameful possibility of future writerly employment in the current (and likely future) market, as in, novels and full-length narrative nonfiction?
Both types of programs have their place. Although if it’s the art for the sake of art kind, I better have some serious funding and the tuition better be free, because I’d hate to charge students a lot of money for a program for which they will have a dim prospect of gaining back the money in future writerly earnings. Learning how to write good short stories does not exactly set one on the path to repaying $40,000 in debt.
Let’s go with the b) type of program: preparing a writer for the writing market he/she will face upon graduation.
2) Determine what kind of book the students want to write
Writing advice is not generally one-size fits all. A sentence is not just a sentence. And authors should know the genre they’re writing in so they can hone their craft.
Genre fiction is one track. Literary fiction is another track. Narrative nonfiction is another, and serious/technical nonfiction still another. And I’m sure there are more.
But learning the customs, expectations, structure, and, most importantly, history of the genre should be a goal of the program. If you’re writing genre fiction, you should know the important authors that paved the way. If you’re writing narrative nonfiction, you should know the proper balance between fictionalization and historical accuracy. Some authors do this on their own, but nothing beats having a teacher guide the education process.
3) Teach plot first.
Plot comes first. Style comes second.
Without a good plot, a novel doesn’t stand a chance. And yet how many MFA programs teach plot?
I’d teach plot. Macro plot, micro plot, scene building, acts, countering expectations, climaxes and nadirs, pacing, and organization. Plot plot plot plot plot. Plot.
This goes for nonfiction too. Good nonfiction has an underlying arc and a satisfying conclusion as well. It’s not the same arc as a novel, but it’s there.
4) Teach style second.
After plot comes style. But in that order. You have to have a skeleton underneath your skin or else you’re just an unappealing pile of flesh.
(We’ll teach strange imagery too.)
Style is what separates literary fiction from genre fiction, and what elevates some writers of genre fiction into those exalted writers with both literary and genre cred. Style is important.
5) Emphasize networking and self-promotion
As anyone who has embarked on the path to publication knows, writing a book is the easy part. A university has the resources to bring in agents, industry professionals, and book marketing experts in order to educate the writers on how to go about the process of publication. For instance, MFA grads have a reputation for writing terrible query letters. Why should that be??? My MFA grads would learn to write pristine query letters that make agents weep with joy.
Now, if my MFA program sounds a bit mercenary…. guilty. I would judge the success of the program by how many authors found publication after they graduated.
That said, I would never devalue the merits of short stories and having universities serve as incubators for important arts for which there is not a ready marketplace. There is a ton to be said for that, and I wouldn’t want to impugn anyone who devotes themselves to the important cultural preservation of poetry and short stories.
But if your goal is to write a full-length book that you’ll be able to sell upon graduation…. come get your MFA from The Nathan Bransford School of Hard Knocks: Getting Published Ain’t Easy, Son.
You’ll be glad you did.
Polenth says
Boneless people are sort of like slime molds, except they can’t move. And I like slime molds, so it’s not totally unappealing. If not quite as cute as a slime mold.
They wouldn’t let me on an MFA I’m sure. I’ve got no advanced English training. But if I did do one, I’d want to learn to improve my writing. Not how to write like the person teaching it. Unfortunately, it seems like the latter is more common.
Nathan Bransford says
anon-
Maybe I’m blinded by my agentness, but I guess I’m confused at the idea of producing literature that is pure art. Do people learn in college to write music that no one listens to or art that isn’t meant to be looked at? Surely there’s something important about preserving a form that isn’t commercially viable but worthy, but I also think there’s a whole lot of room for programs that teach literature as art that is meant to be read, i.e. publishable.
Diana says
I’d really consider signing up for your MFA program. 🙂 When asked about MFA programs, a speaker at a conference I attended said to really ask why you want to do it, because “MFA programs have ruined more writers than alcohol.”
Marilyn Peake says
A very difficult, often painful aspect of the publishing world for writers is that the types of books that are marketable change so radically over time. Philip K. Dick was an incredibly popular author in his day, with the movie Blade Runner based on his novel, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? and the more recent Minority Report movie based on one of his short stories. I heard a literary agent say a couple of years ago that Dick probably wouldn’t even be published today. Novels like Hermann Hesse’s Magister Ludi (one of my favorites!) are heavily into intellectual ideas, not so heavily based on plot. Hesse was very popular years ago, not so much today. Some best-selling novels published today are so poorly written, it’s enough to bring tears to the eyes of readers who love classic literature, and that situation has probably always existed. On the other hand, there are writers today who write beautifully, plot and all, but don’t earn a dime because they don’t write in the literary category and don’t have a “hot” topic. What really amazes me is how many authors who were famous a couple of decades ago are now published only by small press and not earning much money. One of those authors, a multi-millionaire from his earlier novels, recently wrote in a newsletter that he earned around $180 on one of his present-day small press novels. Ouch. I know a writer who recently went back to school to earn her MFA after she had some very successful Stargate novels published, giving her lots of experience in both the commercial and literary aspects of writing. It’s really tough to figure out what will sell by the time an author finishes writing a novel that can take a year or more to write.
Arjay says
Great idea, Nathan! Perhaps you could work with an outside group and make it happen.
Erik says
Why do I love this blog?
Because it feels like every discussion ultimately degenerates into a colorectal examination of the entire publishing industry.
It appeals to my both my medical and scatalogical interests at the same time.
Wendy Nelson Tokunaga says
There are many good points in this post. I am a recent graduate from an MFA program that catered to working adults so there was quite a mix of students. Some were not so interested in publishing right away and just wanted to hone their craft. For me, I’d been trying to get novels published for years and finally had the chance to go to graduate school later in life. I felt by doing this I would be continuing to take my writing seriously. Coincidentally, I finally got a book deal right after I started the program, but I wouldn’t have traded my MFA experience for anything. I was exposed to a lot of literature I had never read before and, even if it wasn’t always to my taste, there was always something to be learned from it. There is no perfect program, but for many students it was enough to know that by completing their MFA they would be completing a book-length work, no small feat. And, while I do agree with others who have said that workshopping can have its downsides, I think it is valuable to have to critique others’ work. Doing this often made me see my own writing strengths and weaknesses more clearly. An MFA of course does not guarantee publication and even if programs were designed to be more practical they still wouldn’t. But there are many, many programs out there and for writers who for any reason want to go to grad school, they can be sure to find one that suits a lot of their needs. And often an MFA program can give students a writing community that they can cherish and call upon long after school is over.
ORION says
I find there are many programs at universities that don’t meet student’s needs- primarily because some graduate programs are for producing professors and others focus on professions– academics become perplexed when a student wants something else out of a program- I was a PhD student and continually had to ‘reinvent’ my courses and explain that “no I wasn’t intending on being a professor”
The thing is – the consumer (student) has to be proactive and determine what does meet their needs. Some writers have benefited from being in an MFA program but many many others have not…
Like anything else.
By the way I am not an MFA- I prefer specific workshops and self study.
Anonymous says
There is plenty of room for all types of literature, but there is a difference between critical discourse and what happens in the marketplace. High-quality MFA programs are focused on the former. By rough consensus -even within the literary agent community- there is hierarchy of literary forms. Agents usually distinguish literary and generic fiction. Literature (and this doesn’t make it a better read by any measure) stakes a claim within the ‘global dialog’ of fiction, more commercial forms are confined to their own genre or language. That’s what they mean by the Fine Art in Masters of… To put it another way, you know that no matter how good the next Vampire Romance is, it has no chance of winning a National Book Award, etc, etc.
John Arkwright says
I have begun to suspect that saying, “I want to write fiction professionally,” even if you have some talent and training is a lot like saying, “I want to go to Hollywood and be an actor.”
# of queries read this week: 216
# of partials/manuscripts requested: 1
# of signed authors 0
So . . . an MFA . . . maybe as a hobby.
ehadams23 says
I love this post. I debated about going to graduate school and researched all these MFA and MA programs in Creative Writing, English, etc. Finally I decided I would rather just save my money and time and just write what I want and read in my genre (instead of the things forced on you by the program), and do research on publishing – a topic which seems to be completely neglected from all these programs.
The Beast Mom says
“After plot comes style. But in that order. You have to have a skeleton underneath your skin or else you’re just an unappealing pile of flesh.”
Ha. This cracked me up. So true.
Although a few successful examples of plotless writing DO appeal – “The Stone Diaries” for example. There is no plot whatsoever. And yet, I kept reading and reading and marveling at this story-less book. The “style” dominated and worked. So unusual. Of course, I wouldn’t recommend the no-plot technique in general. It’s like an ugly alien landing on Publishing-Planet-Earth. Everyone just runs away…
-beast mom
P.S. I’ve followed your blog for a while but have not commented til now. That quote above just got me laughing out loud. Thanks for your straightforward take on the writing industry. I enjoy it.
Gottawrite Girl says
Yaye for teaching plot structure! All those needed elements are actually lots of bite-sized, practical do's… just read Jack Bickham's "Scene & Structure," which is a perfect tutorial! No more vaguery regarding "tention," which I am drop-dead grateful for.
Jael says
I like a lot of these ideas, Nathan, except I don’t like the idea of “tracks”. In my MFA program I took fiction, poetry, and playwriting workshops, and each one helped me learn more about writing on every level. Segregating the literary types from the thriller types and so on deprives them of the ability to learn from each other. Besides, for writers who are undecided, learning everything is the best option.
And for those who advocate getting rid of workshops in MFA programs — I learned a TON from workshops, and it’s harder to workshop novels than short stories, period. You can learn craft at the short story level, and you should learn plotting and arc for novels’ sake too, but you can always learn something from other writers’ critique of your work, regardless of whether they’re in the same genre. And I learned a lot from critiquing other people’s work, too, and in seeing how a large group of people responded differently to the same piece. It’s an incredible lab.
My MFA program wasn’t perfect, but it made me a much better writer, and my agent is shopping my novel to editors right now.
Query strategy can be taught in a week or less. It could be part of a larger course on “The Path to Publication”, which every student at Nathan’s MFA program should be required to take during their last semester. Craft-honing and exploration plus practical lessons. A great combination.
Elyssa Papa says
Can I sign up? *g*
Jeanne says
Erik- I’m sorry but lol at your last comment. I must feel the same way. I love to check back and read the comments on this blog.
sex scenes at starbucks says
To Marilyn Peake:
Dick would have been published if he was the sort of professional who could adapt to the marketplace. He adapted to his current marketplace, obviously. And he had brilliant ideas.
Maybe I’m blinded by my agentness, but I guess I’m confused at the idea of producing literature that is pure art.
You’re not blind, Nathan. I’ve made a lot of art in my day and I’ve sold a fair bit. With experience. I’ve found the constraints customers put on my art actually enhances it.
Incidentally, some are constraints YOU put on it. 🙂
Good writers figure this out as well.
AmyB says
I’m in! Sign me up!
Marilyn Peake says
sex scenes at starbucks –
It’s a really interesting debate. I’ve heard some people, including a top agent, imply that Dicks wasn’t a good enough writer for an agent to take him on in today’s market. He had brilliant ideas, but that might not be enough. I’ve heard the same said of Kurt Vonnegut whose writing I adore. I think there are so many more authors today because it’s much easier to type and edit novels on computers than it was to type them on typewriters and query through snail mail. Some authors do adapt to changing times, Orson Scott Card as an example.
Anonymous says
If you can get a university to pay for your MFA, then go for it. But if you have to take out loans to pay for it, then don’t do it. It’s not worth the financial strain of paying back the loans. A degree won’t make you a writer. Putting your butt in the chair and cranking out drafts will.
Eileen Wiedbrauk says
Oh! Lots of thoughs inspired by this one!
My post is up Wednesday morning at https://speakcoffeetome.blogspot.com so I won’t over clutter this comments page.
Eileen Wiedbrauk says
Oh and all this speculative talk about the MFA could easily be resolved by actually reading the MFAblog — which has covered these “funding” and “purpose” and “teachability” questions a dozen times over.
Anonymous says
Glad to hear someone who recognizes the importance of plot! I’ve quit reading many novels because plot was either non-existent or was treated as an afterthought by the author, and the number of poorly plotted works gathering on my shelves continues to grow. Plot first, people!
Anonymous says
Nadir? LOL!… Why hasn’t anyone asked about THAT yet?
I’ve been writing professionally for nearly 10 years with millions of readers worldwide (agentless, but sorry Nathan, not in the genres you represent)… and I’ve only heard it used twice before – once was to describe the emotional upswings in a story and the other was for the complete opposite…
the latter aligns with the dictionary definition of “the lowest point”, but perhaps in creative writing, a new definition has been unofficially prescribed at some time to indicate the full gamit of emotional swing? (Which is arguably more valuable to maximising sales than focusing on depression?)
I know u didn’t intend on turning this into a creative writing lesson, but I’d love to know your take on this one teeny-but-powerful thing, if possible please?
Christine London says
Hi Nathan,
Does this mean that you have nothing to say to all we authors known as “pantsters” Seems most fiction authors I have met will admit, if plyed with enough wine and chocolate that they more than not fly by the seat of their pants.
Doesn’t mean we have no idea where we are heading with those first tentative keystrokes, but we revel in the lovely uncertainty of just how our characters will react and in what situation they might find themsleves next. Like a film in our head, if we aren’t at least a little bit surprised by the turn of events, we feel our readers won’t be either.
Guess when I run the world and teach my MFA class, I’ll focus on “panting”. Hmm…how would that go? Guess I’ll have to wait until I get to that point in life’s plot. It’ll unfold as it should.
Cheers,
Christine London
http://www.christinelondon.com
Pamala Knight says
Where do I sign up for the NB MFA program?
You seriously should add an extra six hours to your day and do this. I would absolutely enroll and hand my credit card over like I was at a shoe sale at Nordstroms. I could use my current television obsession time (currently it’s True Blood and Mad Men) to hone my writing with the intention of elevation of craft and acquisition of fortune.
Come on! What do you expect when you lay out all these fabulous ideas for us? We want in.
Furious D says
Great advice.
Without plot, creative writing is really creative, just writing stylishly.
At least that’s my opinion.
Heidi the Hick says
Any chance you could run that program here, y’know, like a Blog-iversity correspondence course?
And if so, you can go ahead and sign me up! I’ll take it!
Anonymous says
When do we start?
Raethe says
I haven’t read the comments, so I’m sorry if this is a repeat comment. But Nathan, I would love to see you post even a truncated version of the plot unit of your MFA program.
‘Cause having troubles with external plot is bad when one is a speculative fiction writer. Ahem.
Erin Miller says
Hi Nathan,
As much as I would appreciate such a course, the purpose of MFA’s is not to churn out great short story writers or bestselling authors. It’s to teach people how to TEACH creative writing courses. The point is to learn by doing, and studying, with your own writing. Yes, the best teachers would be ones who have published and who have gained some literary or reader acclaim, but they teach creative writing at the community college level as well, and those teachers need a master’s degree to get those jobs, and voila, sign up for MFA in creative writing. The MFA programs out there may not churn out bestsellers the way you think they should, but they do what they were designed to do.
Corey Blake says
Nathan,
I respectfully disagree with your argument to teach plot first when it comes to fiction. Think about your favorite novels and films, and I would suspect that it is not the plot you remember, it is the characters. Plot is driven by characters. And how characters are created is NOT taught in school, which is a shame. In my work with writers, I have created a process to creating three dimensional characters that drive plot. When you begin with plot, the writer is a puppetmaster. When you begin with character, the writer is a conduit for the fears and desires of characters who are clamoring for space on the page. check out my article that was published in Writer Magazine on character development. https://www.writeandpublishyourbook.com/writing/write-a-book/character-development-in-fiction/
Respectfully, Corey Blake
Writers of the Round Table Inc.
http://www.writersoftheroundtable.com
Gerri says
Even organic writers, i.e. seat-of-pants writers benefit from learning about plot. What I tell my English composition students applies to fiction too: It doesn’t matter if you write and revise, or if you outline, then write, then revise…it’s all gotta be in there in the end. Knowing how plot works can help organic writers revise better, and with all that information stuffed in the back part of the brain, writers have a better chance of getting closer on the first draft.
Plus, too many MFAs teach to organic writers. Outliners need their programs, too.
Word Verification: rentell
Cesia says
I think you should do it! Even if it starts out small, like a blog that posts a lesson/exercise each week, and anyone who wants can participate. You would have a lot of people join in, and then once everyone sees how awesome your FREE lessons are, you offer an optional advanced course for a fee!
– Cesia.
https://ceceatitagain.blogspot.com
bryan russell says
Corey Blake:
To save Nathan some time, here’s a link to his thoughts on the subject you’ve raised.
https://nathanbransford.blogspot.com/2008/06/character-and-plot-inseparable.html
Hope that works… and maybe clarifies that you’re really on the same page after all.
My best,
Bryan
Nathan Bransford says
Thanks, Bryan.
Jeanie W says
Nathan,
I bet you could post some great mini-lessons on plot in your blog. I’d sure be interested if you did.
At an SCBWI conference I attended last year an agent said that the value in MFA programs is that they immerse you in reading and writing. The risk, however, is that you can be overinfluenced by the faculty’s particular tastes.
I thought of a “you tell me” idea. Not sure if you’ve done this one yet: Which authors or books you’ve read (on your own) do you feel have taught you the most about how to write well?
Anonymous says
Most degrees on university levels, including MFA programs in creative writing, are designed to teach in a broad sense…to expand horizons…and then the student is expected to apply that knowledge to the real world, which could be anything from learning to write a query letter to book promotion.
lvcabbie says
I cannot thank you enough for getting my head straight!
PLOT FIRST – that hit me like a hammer. I’m working on a Historical/Fantasy novel set in 11th century Scotland and have great characters and story line – BUT I HAVEN’T COMPLETED THE PLOT!
So, back to the drawing board.
Ulysses says
All this, and it’s the only MFA where TAs are qualified to speak on the merits of both The Wire and The Hills.
I’m in.
Word verification: dermist.
I think this is the first one I’ve come across that actually comes close to being a word. “Dermist: a skin expert,” or maybe “Dermist: German description of fog.”
Vancouver Dame says
An online version of your MFA program would be interesting and offers what the writer really needs – as good as a mentor in some aspects. Online peer group critiques are dispensable as they can produce negative fallout. (As someone else mentioned in this post.) My experiences with them have varied, and I prefer the opinion of the instructor, the professional. It’s a nice fantasy to create the perfect course, Nathan. It would take some time to make it reality. Looks like you have lots of interest, though. The posts you provide are more informative than some courses currently available.
Shruti says
About ‘plot comes first’. I think the writing process differs from writer to writer. I start with theme, then plot and then comes style. But then the thing to note is that I write literary fiction.
Scott says
Good stuff yet again, Nathan, but you would probably kick me out of your class.
I love the idea of teaching students to write excellent queries. In fact, I would say they should write one (or something like it) based on a few of their raw ideas first to help them figure out if they’re commercial enough, and to educate them on the business end of their art. It will likely force them to write with less pointless indulgence, as well.
But I would be the guy who brings in something like House of Leaves or even Infinite Jest (if I could carry it!), and challenges you on the strict genre guidelines. There’s also a fear that students will focus on “by numbers” writing and stifle their voices before they have a chance to let them out. I’m thankful to hear that Colleen listens to the writing first. Where would so many classics we’re told to read factor into our career aspirations and lives if practicality was all we strove for?
Lastly, I began my writing journey as a screenwriter, where aggressive adherence to structure is paramount. It forces you to strip your “genius” to something people can relate to, and you often find that you’re no wiser than Dr. Suess on an off day. With that in mind, I think working out strict structure to an idea that has already established voice and style would be highly beneficial and keep the passion in the room.
But if I went into a class that meant to only show me how to fill the shelves and demanded that I write with the handbrake on, I’d probably end up doodling a lot. 😉
Deaf Brown Trash Punk says
I have a B.A in playwriting and it’s pretty much a worthless degree because I went to an university in the midwest, where NOTHING was offered to us in terms of playwriting opportunities.
Most writing programs at universities, I’m afraid, are rather pointless unless these programs actually offer something useful to students, which in most cases, they don’t.
E.M.Alexander says
As an MFA dropout, I’m not sure if I should be proud or start blushing…
Jess says
Your MFA program sounds like the MFA program I want. Or the BA creative writing program I would love to run.
tsherf says
“Plot plot plot plot plot. Plot.”
Great post, Nathan. It’s writing like this that keeps me coming back for more!
Jane Smith says
Jenna Ashworth blogged about the writing MA (that’s what they’re called here in the UK) earlier this year, and you can read her post here:
https://jennashworth.blogspot.com/2008/06/ma-in-creative-writing.html
She has a rather different viewpoint to Nathan, but I enjoyed it immensely!
Joel Sparks says
MFA programs are like gambling junkets to Vegas. Much of the thrill may come from the idea of a big payoff, but really you’re just paying to have fun.
nancorbett says
You have some great ideas here. I especially zeroed in on the plot vs. craft bullet items.
I am taking the first in a series of writing courses at the University of Washington right now. There was something about the course that was kind of bugging me, and I couldn’t put my finger on it until reading this, but here it is. The instructor is mixing plot and craft together.
I am taking the course to focus on the craft of writing. I want to strengthen my ability to create a scene that conveys what needs to be said at that point in the story in the clearest, most effective way possible. Right now, I work off of instinct, and I want to know the mechanics of when it’s best to go from exposition to dialogue, how to control the reader’s distance from the action, drawing them in and fading out. And the instructor is talking about those things, but he’s mixing in, even on the same nights, how to adhere to a formulaic story arch. I’ve been feeling like I’m getting too much information flung at me at once, and that’s why. It’s not that it’s too much to absorb but that it’s two distinctly separate areas which would be better served if broken up into different lectures.
So, thanks for this. It’s given me some of the direction I needed as far as how to make this course useful.